Lana

The walls are thin here in Brazil too, and we don't have heating. Windows, even when closed, let the wind in, and yet we survive just fine with temperatures as low as -7ºC in the winter. Most people don't even have a heater at all, or just have a tiny little footwarmer sized one to heat the bathroom when they shower, so they can undress comfortably.

It is for a few weeks, not a few months like in Scandinavia. And you can just wear a sweater indoors.

Malcolmsutton

Hi there rod,

I'm actually quite interested in that remark you made about reverse cycle
air cond, it was something that we were looking into at one point, so i'm
interested to know more about why you think they suck!!! we may of had a
lucky escape by the sounds of it

Thanks Karen xxx
"Mountain Dew or Crab Juice?" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "spocit" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Impression of my friends is that the Australian houses are built
MUCH
    > > > WORSE
    > > > > than Polish ones
    > > >
    > > > Explain?
    > >
    > > The wall are thin and the house doesn't isolate properly inside from
    > > outside.
    > Well I'd imagine houses are built differently everywhere in the world.
Built
    > to conditions. I mean, there's a good chance that if it was possible to
    > shift a polish house to Melbourne. It would probably fall apart in a year.
    > Same with cars. The very first Ford Falcon released here back in the early
    > 60's was made to USA specs, and sure enough it fell apart within 12
months.
    > > >
    > > > Cant they afford a heater?
    > >
    > > That's good question. I don't understand this situation properly and
just
    > > want to ask someone who moved to Oz from country where central
    > > heating is necessary (like Poland, Russia, Sweden, Finland etc.)
    > Basically you're gonna need a heater even in Sydney. My opinion is that
    > central heating is overkill in Sydney. However, Melbourne it's quite handy
    > but not vital unless your house is huge. My sister had central heating in
    > her last home in Melbourne and that was great!
    > >
    > > >
    > > > > I can't imagine what if temperature is below freezing.
    > > >
    > > > It's not, Unless you choose to live at Thredbo etc
    > >
    > > They have central heating in Thredbo. I saw it.
    > Right. But my point is, that it doesn't get to those sub freezing temps in
    > Melbourne.
    > >
    > > >
    > > > > I think about moving to Melbourne, but don't want to go through such
a
    > > > > horror
    > > > > like getting cold in own home.
    > > >
    > > > Duh!. Buy a bloody heater!!
    > >
    > > I think I will :-)
    > Hehe
    > If the house you move in to has central heating. Good!. If not, you have
    > other options like gas (if it's connected) wood heaters, reverse cycle air
    > conditioners (not recommended for their heating ability, they suck
actually)
    > Rod.
    > >
    > > Spocit
    > >
    > >
    > ---
    > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 1/04/2003

Mountain Dew Or Crab Juice?

"malcolmsutton" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi there rod,
    > I'm actually quite interested in that remark you made about reverse cycle
    > air cond, it was something that we were looking into at one point, so i'm
    > interested to know more about why you think they suck!!! we may of had a
    > lucky escape by the sounds of it
    > Thanks Karen xxx

Hi Karen

Mainly because they are mounted 3/4 of the way up on the wall. So all the
hot air they produce just blows along the ceiling. Taking a LONG time to
heat up a decent size room.

Friend of mine has a $2000+ reverse cycle Samsung job that he purchased last
winter. He is so unimpressed with the heating side of it, that he's looking
at a gas heater for this winter. However, he said the cooling side of it in
summer was brilliant.

Rod.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 1/04/2003

Leo

Reverse Cycle Airconditioning (AKA Heatpump), perform poorly when it is too cold to change the discharge air temperature. For mild cool temperatures it works great (actually it is more of a convenience).

General rule of thumb: if non-sustained temperatures above freezing (0 C or 32 F) are anticiapated, you can use heatpump. It may be inefficient but will work. If you are frequently seeing temperatures below freezing, then you may need "heat coil" in addition to "heatpump" to supplement the heating. (BTW, heatcoil is just a fancy way of saying a small heating element is built into the heatpump and kicks on when the external ambient temperature reaches a certain threshold - an ofcourse it uses quite a bit of electricity thus as expensive as space heaters to run)

HTH

../Leo



[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malcolmsutton
Hi there rod,

I'm actually quite interested in that remark you made about reverse cycle
air cond, it was something that we were looking into at one point, so i'm
interested to know more about why you think they suck!!! we may of had a
lucky escape by the sounds of it

Thanks Karen xxx

Leo

Could not resist posting the following - Someone who is from the US will get a better kick out of it, but still have fun. The temperature is in Fahrenheit - conversion to Centigrade is in parenthesis.

../Leo

60 degrees above zero: (15 C)
Floridians turn on the heat.
People in New England plant gardens.

50 above zero: (10 C)
Californians shiver uncontrollably.
People in New England sunbathe.

40 above zero: (5 C)
Italian & English cars won't start.
People in New England drive with the windows down.

32 above zero: (0 C)
Distilled water freezes.
Moosehead Lake's water gets thicker.

20 above zero: (-5 C)
Floridians don coats, thermal underwear, gloves, and wool hats.
People in New England throw on a flannel shirt.

15 above zero: (- 8 C)
New York landlords finally turn up the heat.
People in New England have the last cookout before it gets cold.

Zero: (- 17 C)
People in Miami all die...
New Englanders close the windows.

10 below zero: (-23 C)
Californians fly away to Mexico.
People in New England get out their winter coats.

25 below zero: (- 30 C)
Hollywood disintegrates.
The Girl Scouts in New England are selling cookies door to door.

40 below zero: (- 40 C)
Washington DC runs out of hot air.
People in New England let the dogs sleep indoors.

100 below zero: (are you still reading this?)
Santa Claus abandons the North Pole.
New Englanders get frustrated because they can't start the "kah".

460 below zero:
ALL atomic motion stops (absolute zero on the Kelvin scale).
People in New England start saying..."Cold 'nuff for ya?"

500 below zero:
Hell freezes over.
Red Sox win the World Series

Helena

"spocit" wrote
    > > > Impression of my friends is that the Australian houses are built MUCH
    > > WORSE
    > > > than Polish ones
    > The wall are thin and the house doesn't isolate properly inside from
    > outside.

Australian houses are built *differently* than northern hemisphere homes.
They're built for Australian conditions and are somewhat simpler. Less
value-added things, less insulation. Personally I wish we'd add more to our
homes but then people would cry about how expensive that would make them.
Owning your own home is a big thing here in Australia so they seem to rather
build them as inexpensively as possible so that more can afford their own
home. Many add things to their homes later, things that add to their
comfort. But many don't care for those things, so they don't.

The walls (here in Perth, but I believe they're similar in Adelaide), are
double-brick on the outside. There is a cavity between the outside walls
where they run wiring and some plumbing, but rarely is this cavity
insulated. Also, ceiling insulation is only just becoming a common thing
that builders add to new homes. Personally I think the outside walls should
be insulated but then you'd have to have double-paned windows as well, or it
wouldn't be that useful. I also think water pipes should be insulated too
but that's not all that common, and the insulation sleeves are outrageously
expensive here, compared to Canada/US. We insulated our ceilings soon after
moving in, not just for winter, but for summer too, to keep the heat from
bearing down on our heads (sun hitting clay roof tiles is like living in a
clay cookpot). Anyway, bricks really cool down on those cold winter nights
so it'll seem quite chilly indoors, especially in the morning. Many winter
days I find it's warmer outside than inside. Inside walls are mostly single
brick with plaster. They feel cold in winter.

    > > >and they have no heating in standard. Believe me that
    > > > people
    > > > that live comfortable in Poland while -25C outdoors (+20C indoors) now
    > > > feel terrible in Australia when there is +10C outdoor (and close to it
    > > > indoors).
    > >
    > > Cant they afford a heater?
    > That's good question. I don't understand this situation properly and just
    > want to ask someone who moved to Oz from country where central
    > heating is necessary (like Poland, Russia, Sweden, Finland etc.)

I moved back to Perth after living in Canada, so I can relate. Our houses
here aren't as cozy as northern hemisphere homes, for reasons I stated
above. Without heating and insulation in the ceiling, it can be very chilly
in many houses on winter mornings. If your house is very shaded by trees,
you'll be even chillier. You learn to dress warm - bring your winter woolies
because you'll need them for wearing around the house. Sheepskin slippers
are great too. Flooring also has an affect. My friend put in beautiful
marble tiles in her kitchen, eating area and family room. Looks gorgeous but
it's like living on a skating rink in the winter. They invested in some
large areas rugs, as well as the gas heating which they already had. In my
house, half the rooms have wood, the other have carpet. Not as chilly.

    > > > I think about moving to Melbourne, but don't want to go through such a
    > > > horror
    > > > like getting cold in own home.

I have family living near Melbourne and they have heating of various types,
so you shouldn't suffer any horrors. When my brother built his house 3 years
ago, he had central heating put in. My mother has a gas heater in the lounge
room and another in the kitchen/dining area. My dad's last house had central
heating as well, even though it was an older home.

One of the many different things you'll find about life in Australia. Some
good, some bad, mostly just different.

Good luck,

Helena

Helena

"Mountain Dew or Crab Juice?" wrote
    > "malcolmsutton" wrote
    > > Hi there rod,
    > >
    > > I'm actually quite interested in that remark you made about reverse
cycle
    > > air cond, it was something that we were looking into at one point, so
i'm
    > > interested to know more about why you think they suck!!! we may of had a
    > > lucky escape by the sounds of it
    > >
    > > Thanks Karen xxx
    > Hi Karen
    > Mainly because they are mounted 3/4 of the way up on the wall. So all the
    > hot air they produce just blows along the ceiling. Taking a LONG time to
    > heat up a decent size room.
    > Friend of mine has a $2000+ reverse cycle Samsung job that he purchased
last
    > winter. He is so unimpressed with the heating side of it, that he's
looking
    > at a gas heater for this winter. However, he said the cooling side of it
in
    > summer was brilliant.

That's our experience. We initially bought a good quality gas heater - a
Rinnai. Gets a large room toasty warm in less than 15 minutes on the
chilliest winter mornings. Then we put in aircon in two areas, and opted for
the reverse cycle (cools and heats) versus just straight aircon. It's not
that much cheaper to get the cooling-only units anyway. We were thinking
we'd sell the Rinnai heater because we wouldn't need it. Put it in the paper
but thankfully didn't get any bites because we find we prefer it for
heating. We store it in the shed for 8-9 months of the year, and pull it out
around May or June. Houses here will have gas connections in the house, in
at least one room, like the family room, and often the formal lounge as
well. If you have no gas in the house, then you'll have to opt for an
electric space heater. I believe they're more expensive to run than a gas
heater though. And in that case, you may as well just use the reverse cycle
unit. You can direct the hot air downwards but by the time the air reaches
you, it seems to have cooled down so it does take longer to heat up a room.
And we find it depends on the model. Our LG is so-so for heating (so we use
the gas heater in that room), but our Daikin is much better at it (and at
cooling too). A couple of our friends have Daikins too and they are happy
with the heating aspect of it. Nice and quiet too.

Good luck,

Helena

Spocit

"spocit" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My friend left a few months ago Poland and now lives in Adelaide.
    > One of his impressions was that there is no heating in houses in Australia
    > and in winter it can be quite cold inside. Remeber that he comes from
    > Poland and knows well what is "cold".
    > Tell me what do You think about it. Is it really uncomfortable?
    > Especially for people in Melbourne which is a little bit colder than
    > Adelaide IMHO.

Thank You all. The answers give me some view and I hope I will get
accustomed to it in Oz. The truth is that it is easy to say but worse
to experience :-).

Spocit
Poland

Jaj

A point that anyone going to Sydney should be aware of is that winter
nights can be a lot colder in the western suburbs compared to the CBD
and coastal areas.

A minimum of 6C in the coastal areas might be matched by -3C in the
west of the city. It's reversed on summer days, with 32C on the coast
often matched by 40C in the western suburbs.

Which means that both heating in winter and air-con in summer are more
necessary in western Sydney than in the coastal suburbs. Same city,
different climates.

Jeremy

    >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:51:10 +0800, "Helena" wrote:
    >"spocit" wrote
    >> Thank You all. The answers give me some view and I hope I will get
    >> accustomed to it in Oz. The truth is that it is easy to say but worse
    >> to experience :-).
    >> Spocit
    >> Poland
    >You're welcome, and don't worry. It won't be so bad. If you're going to
    >Melbourne, the houses are better equipped for the cold there because it's
    >colder there more often than cities like Adelaide and Perth. Here, we worry
    >more about keeping cool since the winter is so short and the warm weather
    >far more frequent. So people don't put as much effort into making their
    >houses warm, it's not as big a priority as other things in life. But in the
    >east, it's different.
    >Have fun, good luck,
    >Helena

This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction

Jaj

I'll leave it to Melbourne natives to answer for definite.

However, as far as I know Melbourne is on a bay rather than on the
open ocean, and hence the differences might not be as extreme as those
in Sydney.

Jeremy

    >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:16:40 +0200, "spocit" wrote:
    >"JAJ" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Which means that both heating in winter and air-con in summer are more
    >> necessary in western Sydney than in the coastal suburbs. Same city,
    >> different climates.
    >Is it similar in Melbourne? I think so.
    >Spocit

This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction

Helena

"spocit" wrote
    > Thank You all. The answers give me some view and I hope I will get
    > accustomed to it in Oz. The truth is that it is easy to say but worse
    > to experience :-).
    > Spocit
    > Poland

You're welcome, and don't worry. It won't be so bad. If you're going to
Melbourne, the houses are better equipped for the cold there because it's
colder there more often than cities like Adelaide and Perth. Here, we worry
more about keeping cool since the winter is so short and the warm weather
far more frequent. So people don't put as much effort into making their
houses warm, it's not as big a priority as other things in life. But in the
east, it's different.

Have fun, good luck,

Helena

Spocit

"JAJ" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Which means that both heating in winter and air-con in summer are more
    > necessary in western Sydney than in the coastal suburbs. Same city,
    > different climates.

Is it similar in Melbourne? I think so.

Spocit