British Expats

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-   Immigration, Visas & Citizenship (Australia) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/)
-   -   Why do they need SO MUCH information? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/why-do-they-need-so-much-information-905582/)

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 1:32 am

Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
So I am filling Form 40SP for my husband to sign. In the Form they ask if he has had any previous relationships before the one with me. He had one relationship. I have already submitted my form, where I listed all of my many previous boyfriends :eek:.

Why do they need to know? I hate the fact that someone is going to be reading all this stuff, probably making a few judgements about me.

Also, parents, siblings, etc. Why do they need details? I am estranged from my sibling. What if they need information about him?

I dunno, it all seems so irrelevant.

< snipped >

WRUSSELL Nov 8th 2017 2:18 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
'They' are not interested in boyfriends, only de facto or married relationships.
There are are numerous reasons for them wanting to know about various parties:
If they are your dependants they must satisfy the public interest criteria.
Do they have an adverse immigration history?
You might want to sponsor them later.
If you or your partner were in any previous relationship, what is the evidence that any such relationships have ended?
If any person you disclosed has lodged an application with 'them' (or some other immigration authority) was the information they provided different from the information you have provided?
Have you or your partner contradicted information previously submitted?
and so on...

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 7:11 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by WRUSSELL (Post 12377273)
'They' are not interested in boyfriends, only de facto or married relationships.
There are are numerous reasons for them wanting to know about various parties:
If they are your dependants they must satisfy the public interest criteria.
Do they have an adverse immigration history?
You might want to sponsor them later.
If you or your partner were in any previous relationship, what is the evidence that any such relationships have ended?
If any person you disclosed has lodged an application with 'them' (or some other immigration authority) was the information they provided different from the information you have provided?
Have you or your partner contradicted information previously submitted?
and so on...

I quote: "Has the applicant been in any previous relationships with persons other than the sponsor?" They don't specify married/de facto, just "any relationships".

Could I sponsor by brother anyway? Will the fact that I have parents and a brother harm my application? What if any of them had a terrible criminal history (they don't, as far as I know). Would that affect my application?

It just seems irrelevant and unnecessarily intrusive.

NickyC Nov 8th 2017 7:55 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
I'm looking at Form 40SP from http://www.border.gov.au/forms/Documents/40sp.pdf and dated 07/17 and it quite clearly asks:

28 Have you ever been in a same-sex or opposite-sex de facto relationship with a person other than the current visa applicant?
for the Sponsor

and

33 Has the visa applicant ever been in a same-sex or opposite-sex de facto relationship with a person other than you?
for the Visa applicant.

They only want to know about previous live-in relationships. They're not interested in how many boyfriends you might have had in the past!

Dorothy Nov 8th 2017 10:33 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377381)
I quote: "Has the applicant been in any previous relationships with persons other than the sponsor?" They don't specify married/de facto, just "any relationships".

Could I sponsor by brother anyway? Will the fact that I have parents and a brother harm my application? What if any of them had a terrible criminal history (they don't, as far as I know). Would that affect my application?

It just seems irrelevant and unnecessarily intrusive.

Their playground = their rules. Do you want the visa? If so, then answer the questions honestly and you have nothing to worry about.

As for why they want to know about family, think about it.... Say you have a brother who's a freedom fighter for ISIS. Don't you think the Australian government has a right to know that? And yes, you could be a sponsor for your brother. There are family sponsored skilled visas. Parents? Yes, you could sponsor them in future. The government (acting on ALL Australians' behalf) has a right to know their background if it chooses.

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 10:47 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
@NickyC, it's the Spouse Visa application form that asks. I have taken a picture of it but don't know how to add it to my post.

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 10:49 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
@Dorothy, yes I get that, but are the details of some bloke i shagged 25 years ago at university really relevant to my Visa Application? Like, REALLY?!?

Dorothy Nov 8th 2017 10:56 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377489)
@Dorothy, yes I get that, but are the details of some bloke i shagged 25 years ago at university really relevant to my Visa Application? Like, REALLY?!?

They don't want to know about some bloke you shagged 25 years ago. They want to know about legal relationships; i.e de-facto or married only. I'm not sure where you're looking, but this is the correct, current 40SP http://www.border.gov.au/forms/Documents/40sp.pdf Nowhere does it ask for "some bloke you shagged", only marriages and de-facto relationships. I suggest you fill in the current form and ditch the one you're using now.

As for the @...this is not twitter. If you want to quote someone you click on the "quote" button on their post.

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 11:01 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
The @ reference is common now on website forums.

And my quote came from the Spouse Visa Application Form.

How can I upload a photograph? Does anybody know? Thanks.

NickyC Nov 8th 2017 11:04 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377484)
@NickyC, it's the Spouse Visa application form that asks. I have taken a picture of it but don't know how to add it to my post.

You said in your original post that you were filling in Form 40SP. And I quoted from Form 40SP.

What's the number of the form you're completing and I'll see if I can find it.

LaLaLayla Nov 8th 2017 11:14 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
Yes, I was filling in 40SP, but the previous relationship question was on the Spouse Visa Application Form (don't know the number).

DML Nov 8th 2017 11:58 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
Wait til you get to citizenship - we've filled in the forms for our 457, two years later more of the same for the PR and now more of the same for citizenship. Most if not all of it should be on file. Obviously keeps lots of paper pushers (or mouse clickers) in a job

Pollyana Nov 8th 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377251)
So I am filling Form 40SP for my husband to sign. In the Form they ask if he has had any previous relationships before the one with me. He had one relationship. I have already submitted my form, where I listed all of my many previous boyfriends :eek:.

Why do they need to know? I hate the fact that someone is going to be reading all this stuff, probably making a few judgements about me.

Also, parents, siblings, etc. Why do they need details? I am estranged from my sibling. What if they need information about him?

I dunno, it all seems so irrelevant.

< snipped >

For starters, the form you fill in is 47SP.
The form your husband fills in is 40SP.

DIBP compare them to see if the answers are the same - so if your husband says he believes you have never been married, yet you name three previous husbands....there is the first red flag.

Australia likes forms. Get used to it, its a fact of life.

Pollyana Nov 8th 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377500)
The @ reference is common now on website forums.

Not on BE it isn't. Never has been and hopefully never will be. We prefer to quote the post that is being replied to :)

moneypenny20 Nov 8th 2017 12:41 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
I don't know what version of the forms you are looking at but in 14 years of seeing these forms I have never seen requests for all ex boyfriends/girlfriends. And no, we don't use @. Just use the quote button. It's much clearer for others to see what quote you're replying to.

carcajou Nov 8th 2017 1:11 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377489)
@Dorothy, yes I get that, but are the details of some bloke i shagged 25 years ago at university really relevant to my Visa Application? Like, REALLY?!?

You are not listening. They only want to know about de facto relationships or marriages.

christmasoompa Nov 10th 2017 10:08 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12377500)
How can I upload a photograph? Does anybody know? Thanks.

From the FAQ - British Expats - FAQ: Reading and Posting Messages

HTH.

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 8:51 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here you are... doesn't specify 'married' or 'defacto'.

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 8:58 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
... and guys, is it really necessary to be so rude? I am in an extremely stressful situation and am totally alone in this country with 2 kids and no support. I have come on here for some advice. Cut the snipey comments, eh?

old.sparkles Nov 11th 2017 9:04 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379690)
Here you are... doesn't specify 'married' or 'defacto'.

What form is the photo from - I also looked at 40SP and 47SP and cannot see anything resembling your photo

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 9:06 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 12379694)
What form is the photo from - I also looked at 40SP and 47SP and cannot see anything resembling your photo

It's from the Spouse Visa form. I think I confused everybody because I was filling in the Sponsor Form when I started this thread.

old.sparkles Nov 11th 2017 9:12 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379695)
It's from the Spouse Visa form. I think I confused everybody because I was filling in the Sponsor Form when I started this thread.

But I though that was form 47SP which does not look like your photo. I haven't been through the partner visa process so only going with what I read online. Is this photo after you have logged into your account?

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 9:17 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 12379699)
But I though that was form 47SP which does not look like your photo. I haven't been through the partner visa process so only going with what I read online. Is this photo after you have logged into your account?

I applied online then printed the form. The screenshot is from the printed version.

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 9:43 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by DML (Post 12377545)
Wait til you get to citizenship - we've filled in the forms for our 457, two years later more of the same for the PR and now more of the same for citizenship. Most if not all of it should be on file. Obviously keeps lots of paper pushers (or mouse clickers) in a job

Sod that, I don't think I'll bother with Citizenship.

Pollyana Nov 11th 2017 9:44 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379692)
... and guys, is it really necessary to be so rude? I am in an extremely stressful situation and am totally alone in this country with 2 kids and no support. I have come on here for some advice. Cut the snipey comments, eh?

They want relationships. Not one night stands. Not ships that pass in the night, but relationships. That's what it asks for
I shagged blokes at university donkeys years ago :o but there is no way I would refer to any of them as 'relationships'. A relationship is something more meaningful that lasts longer than a quick shag :)

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 9:51 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 12379710)
They want relationships. Not one night stands. Not ships that pass in the night, but relationships. That's what it asks for
I shagged blokes at university donkeys years ago :o but there is no way I would refer to any of them as 'relationships'. A relationship is something more meaningful that lasts longer than a quick shag :)

Sure, I get that. I was obviously being facetious in my example. Nonetheless, it does seem unnecessarily intrusive.

Pollyana Nov 11th 2017 9:57 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379713)
Sure, I get that. I was obviously being facetious in my example. Nonetheless, it does seem unnecessarily intrusive.

They need to know what relationships you have been in before for severa reasons. For instance - If you are applying on the grounds of marriage, are you married to the sponsor? Are you divorced from anyone you were previously married to? Has any previous de facto relationship ended? Were you in any previous marriage/relationship with an Aussie who sponsored you for a visa? Do you have a history of relationships that only last 6 months before moving on to the next person?

Its all part of establishing whether you are in a genuine relationship - of course its intrusive, they are trying to establish how genuine your marriage/relationship is, and if they decide to interview you they can get far more intrusive than that, believe me!

If you don't want to answer intrusive questions about your relationship, don't apply for a spouse visa.

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 10:11 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 12379716)
If you don't want to answer intrusive questions about your relationship, don't apply for a spouse visa.

Well that's me told.

Pollyana Nov 11th 2017 10:14 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379720)
Well that's me told.

Its true. Believe me I have been through it myself, and I know just how intrusive they can get. Just a warning in case it happens to you ( I doubt it will, with kids of the marriage etc, but you never know).

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 10:24 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 12379723)
Its true. Believe me I have been through it myself, and I know just how intrusive they can get. Just a warning in case it happens to you ( I doubt it will, with kids of the marriage etc, but you never know).

Thanks Pollyanna. I am finding it all incredibly hard. It's not just the Spouse Visa, it's my son's Citizenship as well. His school are getting quite heavy with us, but there's nothing we can do. The Citizenship people have requested that an Australian national with a professional job signs the back of his passport photos, but we don't know any! They have to have known him for a while.

We asked his school teacher from Dubai to sign them, and sent those in, but they won't accept them. Now the Citizenship department are ignoring our emails. If we don't get it sorted soon, we're gonna get a massive bill from the school for fees which we are not in a position to pay.

With me not working (another nasty surprise, not getting a bridging visa that allows me to work), we're gonna have to consider going home.

BritInParis Nov 11th 2017 10:55 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 
Neither the paper Form 47SP nor Form 40SP ask for anything other than previous marriages or de facto partners. The online Form 47SP does ask "Has the applicant been in any previous relationships with persons other than the sponsor?" but if you click on the help symbol it provides the following definition:


Previous relationships


For the sponsor

Give the name and details of any person the sponsor was in a committed relationship with, including marriages and same or opposite sex de facto relationships.


For the applicant

Give the name and details of any person the applicant was in a committed relationship with, including marriages and same or opposite sex de facto relationships.​
As mentioned DIBP doesn't care about one night stands, Tinder dates, university boyfriends or anyone else other than someone you were previously married to or in a de facto relationship with, 'de facto' being defined as living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least twelve months.


Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379727)
Thanks Pollyanna. I am finding it all incredibly hard. It's not just the Spouse Visa, it's my son's Citizenship as well. His school are getting quite heavy with us, but there's nothing we can do. The Citizenship people have requested that an Australian national with a professional job signs the back of his passport photos, but we don't know any! They have to have known him for a while.

We asked his school teacher from Dubai to sign them, and sent those in, but they won't accept them. Now the Citizenship department are ignoring our emails. If we don't get it sorted soon, we're gonna get a massive bill from the school for fees which we are not in a position to pay.

With me not working (another nasty surprise, not getting a bridging visa that allows me to work), we're gonna have to consider going home.

For children aged six and over the person signing your son's identity declaration needs to be an Australian citizen, in a specified profession or occupation, who has known your son for at least a year. Had you applied from the UAE before you left then an UAE citizen could also have completed the form. If your son was under six years old then they also wouldn't have to known him for at least a year.

Did you receive a new Evidence of Australian Citizenship certificate for your daughter?

Tr1boy Nov 11th 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379713)
Sure, I get that. I was obviously being facetious in my example. Nonetheless, it does seem unnecessarily intrusive.

If you have an aversion to mind numbing, time wasting bureaucracy and needless grubberment intrusions, Oz definitely isn't your happy place.:lol:

LaLaLayla Nov 11th 2017 4:38 pm

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12379731)
For children aged six and over the person signing your son's identity declaration needs to be an Australian citizen, in a specified profession or occupation, who has known your son for at least a year. Had you applied from the UAE before you left then an UAE citizen could also have completed the form.

Did you receive a new Evidence of Australian Citizenship certificate for your daughter?

It's unfortunate that we don't know anybody like that.

No, not yet.

moneypenny20 Nov 12th 2017 12:49 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12379731)

For children aged six and over the person signing your son's identity declaration needs to be an Australian citizen, in a specified profession or occupation, who has known your son for at least a year. Had you applied from the UAE before you left then an UAE citizen could also have completed the form. If your son was under six years old then they also wouldn't have to known him for at least a year.

Did you receive a new Evidence of Australian Citizenship certificate for your daughter?

Surely taking all relevant documentation to a JP would work?

BritInParis Nov 12th 2017 1:19 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379881)
It's unfortunate that we don't know anybody like that.

No, not yet.

I presume your husband is Australian - he really doesn't know any professional Australian citizens anywhere in the world whatsoever?


Originally Posted by moneypenny20 (Post 12380112)
Surely taking all relevant documentation to a JP would work?

Unfortunately not.

LaLaLayla Nov 12th 2017 6:48 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12380125)
I presume your husband is Australian - he really doesn't know any professional Australian citizens anywhere in the world whatsoever?

None that know our son.

Pollyana Nov 12th 2017 6:49 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla (Post 12379881)
It's unfortunate that we don't know anybody like that.

No, not yet.

I hate to say it, but if you had gone about this the right way and sorted their citizenship before moving, as well as sorting your own visabefore you became unlawful here without permission to work, life would be a lot simpler now.

I'm genuinely not having a dig at you, but trying to make the point for others who come after you....... :)

Pollyana Nov 12th 2017 6:49 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by Tr1boy (Post 12379809)
If you have an aversion to mind numbing, time wasting bureaucracy and needless grubberment intrusions, Oz definitely isn't your happy place.:lol:

oh so true!!

Pollyana Nov 12th 2017 7:02 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12380125)
I presume your husband is Australian - he really doesn't know any professional Australian citizens anywhere in the world whatsoever?



.

I;ev discovered that some of the most unlikely people are JPs, s its worth the OP investigating all her husbands friends and asscoiates!

As an extra point - she has already submitted her initial application for the spouse visa, and (it seems finally) paid for it a few weeks back - how long would they give her to submit 40SP (or the online equivalent) as this thread initially says she is only just completing it now for her husband to sign?
I'm only accustomed to the old paper application when 40SP and 47SP were forms that had to be submitted at the start of the process.
She has enough problems already without being caught out by submitting forms late......

BritInParis Nov 12th 2017 9:24 am

Re: Why do they need SO MUCH information?
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 12380190)
I;ev discovered that some of the most unlikely people are JPs, s its worth the OP investigating all her husbands friends and asscoiates!

As an extra point - she has already submitted her initial application for the spouse visa, and (it seems finally) paid for it a few weeks back - how long would they give her to submit 40SP (or the online equivalent) as this thread initially says she is only just completing it now for her husband to sign?
I'm only accustomed to the old paper application when 40SP and 47SP were forms that had to be submitted at the start of the process.
She has enough problems already without being caught out by submitting forms late......

Well, you don't sign online applications. I presume the OP has applied online? If so then Form 40SP needs to be completed by the sponsor via their own ImmiAccount after the application has been submitted and then linked to the application via its TRN.

In terms of timing it is, of course, advisable to do these as soon as possible but given current processing times for onshore partner applications it's unlikely that any case officer will even be looking at it for at least a year.


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