frustrated

Hello,

I think it would be also important to know the reasons for people
(like myself) who are trying to leave the USA and go and live in
Australia.

In my particular situation, I am an European who has been living in
the USA (New Jersey) for 3 years on a working visa. Even though this
country is amazing regarding job opportunities, I honestly believe
that the quality of living in general is not that good. I am not just
talking about the weather (of course I am talking about NJ) or how
difficult it is to socialize, but also how expensive and money
oriented everything is. I think the estimate for how much a family
needs to live in NJ is above $50,000 a year. So it would seem as
though this country is very good if you love working and you plan to
live to work and not the other way around. But if your priority is not
your job, you have an important obstacle to fit in this system.

Cheers.

dpahawaii

Well put. We're heading to Australia because we fell in love with Australia the moment we first visited. Multiple trips have done nothing but make the feeling stronger.

And, yes, Australia's admirable work ethic is quite appealing. Life's too short to work constantly. My wife (also European) has been working on convincing me of this for a long time.

Plus, the outdoors and animals in Australia are simply amazing. People have been quite remarkably nice as well.

Sdw

I'm heading there because like you I fell in love with it when I
visited. I felt like I was where I was meant to be. I have lived in
many parts of the US, but now would like to expand to another part of
the world. Nothing is perfect, but my philosophy is that life is about
experiences and opportunities, and I would like to take advantage of
them when they come along. Even if it doesn't work out for the long
term, and I have to return home I will be able to look back on my life
and say "When I lived in Australia....."

dpahawaii wrote in message news:...
    > Originally posted by frustrated
    > > this country is very good if you love working and you plan to live to
    > > work and not the other way around. But if your priority is not your
    > > job, you have an important obstacle to fit in this system.
    > >
    >
    > Well put. We're heading to Australia because we fell in love with
    > Australia the moment we first visited. Multiple trips have done nothing
    > but make the feeling stronger.
    >
    > And, yes, Australia's admirable work ethic is quite appealing. Life's
    > too short to work constantly. My wife (also European) has been working
    > on convincing me of this for a long time.
    >
    > Plus, the outdoors and animals in Australia are simply amazing. People
    > have been quite remarkably nice as well.

rajarajaraja

I Agree.......

I did my Masters in Australia and came here to USA on a work visa.... been here in Los Angeles for 5 years now.

Though I make lots more money here, I feel life in Australia is way better. Atleast for me!!

Michael Hoffman

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I think it would be also important to know the reasons for people
    > (like myself) who are trying to leave the USA and go and live in
    > Australia.
    >
    > In my particular situation, I am an European who has been living in
    > the USA (New Jersey) for 3 years on a working visa. Even though this
    > country is amazing regarding job opportunities, I honestly believe
    > that the quality of living in general is not that good. I am not just
    > talking about the weather (of course I am talking about NJ) or how
    > difficult it is to socialize, but also how expensive and money
    > oriented everything is. I think the estimate for how much a family
    > needs to live in NJ is above $50,000 a year. So it would seem as
    > though this country is very good if you love working and you plan to
    > live to work and not the other way around. But if your priority is not
    > your job, you have an important obstacle to fit in this system.

You know your situation sounds so much like mine.... where are you from?
Are you my secret twin brother?

One warning though: Aussie cost of living is not that low. My wife have
been drawing down spreadsheets and calculations and just generally going
nuts to figure out what we have to make, how much money we have to bring
and just generally what it would take us to have the same *standard* of
living as we have in Colorado. That's not the same as *quality* of living,
but it's still a consideration, as a severe frop in standard would surely
drag the quality down.

In this case we're talking about Melbourne, where housing especially has
gone through a phase of greed and insanity to make the SF Bay Area blush.

Mike

frustrated

On 10 Apr 2003 20:05:43 -0600, Michael Hoffman wrote:
    > You know your situation sounds so much like mine.... where are you from?
    > Are you my secret twin brother?
    >
    > One warning though: Aussie cost of living is not that low.

Hi Mike,

I am Spanish (for some USAmericans, that means from Spain, one of the
kingdoms in Europe :-) I know that Australia is not cheap, but with
the same standard of living there than here, you get a better quality
of living.

We are planning to settle in Sydney. Although I have never been there,
my wife spent a couple of years studying in Sydney, so we have a
pretty good idea of how much money we will need, and in general how
our life will be there.

I also know that the job market is not that great in Australia, and
probably worse than in the USA. That is, in part, why I am thinking
of, instead of working there, try and change my career. I would start
by going back to the university and studying something new and
exciting (don't ask me what yet). I am a CS guy, and it looks like
Computing careers in general (CS, CE, IT, etc.) have a tough future
ahead.

All right! Too many personal confessions for today :-)

Cheers.

Petecito

Frustrated, your situation is almost identical to mine. Yes there's more
cash earned in the US but I also feel you're trapped into paying more for
services than you might in Australia. I also don't think the CS job market
is worse in Australia; I think it's probably better.

For me, living in the right place should fit with where I am in my life, and
what I'm looking for. The US was good (and nowhere else came close) for a
while. I've lived in Australia before and imagine it will be good for me
for the next ten years or so.

wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    | On 10 Apr 2003 20:05:43 -0600, Michael Hoffman wrote:
    | > You know your situation sounds so much like mine.... where are you from?
    | > Are you my secret twin brother?
    | >
    | > One warning though: Aussie cost of living is not that low.
    |
    | Hi Mike,
    |
    | I am Spanish (for some USAmericans, that means from Spain, one of the
    | kingdoms in Europe :-) I know that Australia is not cheap, but with
    | the same standard of living there than here, you get a better quality
    | of living.
    |
    | We are planning to settle in Sydney. Although I have never been there,
    | my wife spent a couple of years studying in Sydney, so we have a
    | pretty good idea of how much money we will need, and in general how
    | our life will be there.
    |
    | I also know that the job market is not that great in Australia, and
    | probably worse than in the USA. That is, in part, why I am thinking
    | of, instead of working there, try and change my career. I would start
    | by going back to the university and studying something new and
    | exciting (don't ask me what yet). I am a CS guy, and it looks like
    | Computing careers in general (CS, CE, IT, etc.) have a tough future
    | ahead.
    |
    | All right! Too many personal confessions for today :-)
    |
    | Cheers.
    |
    |

Michael Hoffman

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > We are planning to settle in Sydney. Although I have never been there,
    > my wife spent a couple of years studying in Sydney, so we have a
    > pretty good idea of how much money we will need, and in general how
    > our life will be there.

Ah well, we're looking at Melbourne. Sydney is too hectic, and M'bin is a
dream come true for food snobs like my wife an myself.

    > I also know that the job market is not that great in Australia, and
    > probably worse than in the USA. That is, in part, why I am thinking
    > of, instead of working there, try and change my career. I would start
    > by going back to the university and studying something new and
    > exciting (don't ask me what yet). I am a CS guy, and it looks like
    > Computing careers in general (CS, CE, IT, etc.) have a tough future
    > ahead.

From our last trip a few months ago I'm not so sure the job market is
worse. Quite the contrary, depending on your skills focus, Australia (or at
leat Victoria) seems to have avoided the worst excessed of the dotcom boom
and therefore is suffering from a far smaller jobless hangover.

My comparison is to Denver, CO which has been terribly hard hit and is fast
spiraling towards another bust as they did in the late 80s (which will make
selling our house *real* fun...).

YMMV
Mike

Lisa

My husband and I are 30-something Americans having our first child in
a couple of weeks. Things are good for us. We both work at home in
computing/Internet related jobs (he's been with the same company for
ten years) and have a lot of flexibility to travel, etc. Also, our
house in Northern California has appreciated over $200,000 in 4 years,
so we decided to sell and move. Our problem was that even though we
could live anywhere, we couldn't find another place in the US we both
wanted to go.

So, when we were invited to swap houses in NZ last year, we decided to
check it out (also spent a couple of months in Ireland). We found NZ
clean, beautiful, the people friendly and well-adjusted, and that
there was a lot to do. We can also buy a house there without a
mortage and my husband, at least, will continue to work for the
American company, making a good wage. I'll probably work for a small
NZ company that offered me a job, and perhaps begin working on a
doctorate.

In short, we are looking for overall better quality of life, no
mortgage, and a relatively safe, sane, clean environment for us and
our child. The Kiwis just seem so sensible, which is something I
can't say about most Americans these days. 9/11 affected the American
psyche in bizarre ways. We are more arrogant than ever, I think. And
a bit crazy. The liquor store down the street has a big sign with
American flags all over it that says 'we don't serve French wines!'.
Come on. I also hate the fact that our education and healthcare
systems are a complete mess with no reform in sight.

Although there are wonderful people here, too, I think America has
become an example of capitalism without conscience. I'm ready to move
somewhere where people take responsibility for their own actions, care
about others, care about their environment and are generally happy
with their lot in life. NZ is not a Utopia, but it's the closest I've
seen. So, we'll try it!

Lisa

Vladimir Menkov

In article ,
Lisa wrote:
...
    >... 9/11 affected the American
    >psyche in bizarre ways. We are more arrogant than ever, I think. And
    >a bit crazy. The liquor store down the street has a big sign with
    >American flags all over it that says 'we don't serve French wines!'.

Have they started promoting Bulgarian wines yet? :-)

--vladimir (Penticton, B.C., Canada)

lidleony

yaaayyyy the freedom fries lollll

well one thing for sure I am in US now and I like it so far, but when I start to think about having children and settle down ...I prefer Australia thats for sure.

US is yes, a great place for those singles, money oriented, performance driven people, which is very appealing to young people, just finishing the college, and want to make money asap lolllll.

Dont get me wrong, we have some nice people here too

all in all US is still a great place, but Aussie is more preferable to me. I hope one day i can go to Oz and then i will be very pleased because i have tasted US and Oz.

Good luck for me....still waiting..........

Margarita Mincheva

Good question )

Best regards,
Ritka

Vladimir Menkov wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Lisa wrote:
    > ...
    >
    >>... 9/11 affected the American
    >>psyche in bizarre ways. We are more arrogant than ever, I think. And
    >>a bit crazy. The liquor store down the street has a big sign with
    >>American flags all over it that says 'we don't serve French wines!'.
    >
    >
    > Have they started promoting Bulgarian wines yet? :-)
    >
    > --vladimir (Penticton, B.C., Canada)

Michael Hoffman

lidleony wrote in
news:[email protected]:


    > US is yes, a great place for those singles, money oriented, performance
    > driven people, which is very appealing to young people, just finishing
    > the college, and want to make money asap lolllll.

I think you just described Sydney! ;-) OK, I'm Melbourne-biased here...

Not much I can add to this discussion now [/me curses at ISP for hosed up
newsfeed thereby now catching up on 1+ weeks of group msgs], except state
my general sense of disapointment and disillusion about the USA.

Maybe it was inevitable and all great powers turn to greed, imperiliam,
jingoisn, hegemonialism and lots of other -isms, sooner or later.

And just as certainly, they fall sooner or later, as well. Comparisons to
the Roman and British empires are fashionable, but to me it seems the seed
of the downfall of the US will lie elsewhere:

If I remember some stats correctly, foreigners already outnumber US kids in
engineering and science programs at universities. Public schools are a mess
and private schools are often religiously driven (with an added anti-
science bias).

With the country relying on its current crushing advantage in military
technology, where will the engineers and scientists come from to maintain
that lead? Foreigners either return home - or they can't get the clearances
to work in classified environments. US kids prefer to get law or business
degrees.

Add to that an ever-increasing amount of religious funtamentalism - and an
anti-scientific attitude that borders on superstition (more people in the
US think that UFOs have visited Earth than "believe" in evolution - or vote
for that matter) and you have the recipe for a collapse within a generation
or two.

Let's just hope the dumbing down goes fast enough that the fundies forget
how to maintain and use nukes, so they don't get ideas about giving
Revelations and the Second Coming a nudge or two.

It's sad to see for me, as I was one of those who came to the US from
Europe led by what the country once stood for: opportunity, liberty,
equality, choice, free enterprise (not just for the corporacrats).

What attracts me to Australia is that they seem to embody an attempt to
balance the best traits of Europe and America. It's a tightrope act for
sure, but from frequent visits and following the developments in the
country since 1987 they seems to be doing a better job than most at it.
Australia isn't perfect, no place is, but ya gotta give a country credit
for trying! (Australia - the "battler" among nations? :-)

Mike