teza

Yes, maybe. Again, unless you want to start the application from scratch later on, you should, as recommended, get the advice of a MARA registered agent.

old.sparkles

I would get that advice before seeking the review. If the review only looks at the info originally provided (and I'm not sure if they do or not) they may come to the same decision. From what you've said, have you even physically seen your wife since before the proxy marriage?

Pollyana

You don't get the point I'm trying to make. Look at your original list.YOUR bills in your name - nothing in joint names, nothing looks shared, no joint investments, joint accounts etc
2 stat decs - the minimum required - what about the extra ones from friends on each side who have had to listen to you and your wife boring them to tears by talking about how much you love each other but can't be together?

Where are the shipping quotes to move her stuff to Aus, where is her preparation such as a resume to get a job here?

My family and her family visits each other houses on regular basis. They come over my family's house for dinners every now and then and exchange gifts on any special occasions and we get invited to theirs.

Thats great and it helps, but its your families, not yourselves. You are newly married - but married her by proxy, that in itself is unusual to an Australian and European viewpoint as you can tell by the replies on here. To some of us it really does sound like "ÿeah I want you to move to Australia but I can't be bothered to be at the wedding"" If a bloke said or implied that to me I'd smack him good and hard and tell him to make his own life without me. From our viewpoint a wedding means something, and whether its legal or not without those feelings it seems "wrong". It has to mean some kind of lasting love, commitment, loyalty and friendship, on both sides.

Many of us live further from our spouses than you do during visa processing, yet we manage to fly home for a few days here and there and we make those times special.

Please don't take any of this as criticism of your culture, but more as a constructive look at things from a more western viewpoint. When you first asked about proxy marriages you were warned Australia is not used to them and doesn't really comprehend them. If you get an agent, and then appeal, you have to make the MRT understand the reasons for marrying by proxy and you will have to show how the two of you have built a life together since that marriage. You also have a young child, that indicates your last marriage broke up fairly recently - you therefore also have to show that this marriage is different.

teza

Plus you say your families are in contact but did their statements say you are in constant contact with her family and vice versa. You said you were waiting for visa to start married life but most people keep going on married life even when living in different countries (quite few of us spouses have done so). We plan for the future (regardless of visa) so joint accounts, wills, life insurance etc. at one point my husband was earning more than spending whereas me in another country looking for work, therefore he supported me also financially.

Little things like Christmas cards were sent to both of our names from friends and family, have you got things like that?

I understand your stand but I also understand the decision as IF I was divorced, I could easily prove years worth contact with someone I know, no romantic links btw, I could easily prove we met and haven't met since but married by proxy. At the moment I could pick atleast 5+ friends on FB and skype (just old mates) that if I was single, I could marry by proxy and prove the same you have. See, even though your situation is genuine, therein lies the problem with DIBP...

Now you can have her here on visitor visa but I would ask, given recent refused spouse visa and not visiting you during the process, do you think DIBP will think she's just a visitor or coming to the country to apply onshore (high risk in my mind, let alone DIBP who deal with this every day?). Again, time for an agent...

Pollyana

Exactly what I'm getting at. Its not about families knowing each other, its about how well two people know each other, how well the get on with each other's friendd, how well they fit into each other's lives. Does she know, and chat to, any of the OPs friends on facebook for instance and vice versa? Have they been to any events together? Do they share books, music, art taste - do they surprise each other with books or cds that they just know their spouse will love.
Living in a different country makes it difficult but not impossible, but there;s not really any proof here of lasting commitment.

teza

Exactly Polly, me and OH were in different countries, yet I would talk to his parents and vice versa. Also all wedding invitatation were in both names although the couple due to be married knew we both couldn't attend, just normal curtesy but helped us prove the point that everyone knew we were married, same with Xmas cards etc. he'll, I could write and perform birthday song to any of my mates right now, how the heck does THAT prove genuine marriage?

One thing I have to touch point here... Normally with spouse application they require a letter from you stating how you are going to "support each other financially, emotionally and physically"

I took effense to the "physically" part and told them to mind their own business in my letter but did make certain of our work plans, plans for children, holidays, property, visiting both families regularly... Most never planned out but as it says, they were plan. No doubt you were asked for this letter? What did you write? If you write along "we will wait for visa and then plan, that alone was a giveaway...." My letter was four pages long of passionately telling them of our past and future dreams. We met before internet so personal love letters were included.

Ps. The worse bit of evidence ever included was when I asked MIL to write about us, she wrote on stik-it note "yep, they love each other and are currently living in my basement in sin...". Yes, I included that in our application

live2learn

That makes sense. Therefore, I am seriously looking forward to having her here on Visitors visa so we can do all the things you mentioned.

Now that my spouse visa was recently refused, is it a good time for her to apply immediately for a Visitors visa? Will the recent Partner visa refusal have any negative impact on the outcome of visitors visa? or will visitors visa be considered a different visa class altogether and she can apply regardless of the partner visa refusal?

SillyOldBag

This is where taking advice from a registered migration agent would be a good idea. We can all voice an opinion but really this is your marriage, your wife your future, surely it's worth investing some time and indeed some money in making sure you get good sound advice.

teza

Your spouse visa wasn't refused, hers was. Therefore her applying visitor visa shortly after married to Oz PR might put stop to it.

teza

Remember that you as an PR aren't applying for any visa, it's your spouse applying for the visas. For the umpteenth time, will you please finally listen?? You are beyond free Internet forum help, you need a MARA registered agent...

live2learn

Yes I have sent my details to one of the reputable migration agents here on BE. I am looking forward to hearing from him soon. And then I will take the next action steps.

Your kind inputs and feedback have been tremendously helpful. You have shed light on certain things that I had overlooked.

quoll

How about you leaving to spend a significant period of time with her in her country to demonstrate the strength of the relationship between the two of you? (Not between your families!)

Relationships from HR countries always run the risk of multiple barriers being placed in their way. One of my work colleagues had a son who married a girl from his home HR country and they had been married for 3 years and had a 2 yr old child before their visa came through and he was a citizen of some years. You've got some time to go yet to demonstrate the reality of your relationship.

commonwealth

Did they even "consummate" their marriage?

RURUS

There is no certainty of a visitor visa being grated to a refused partner applicant (far from it) and most likely not before health and police clearances have been obtained.

Dorothy

How is that relevant to this discussion?