UK / Australia House prices
Dec 11th 2002, 11:03 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
I think you misunderstood the Banks statement Richard. They didnt
mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it would
possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to mean the
Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to prevent
widescale panic. Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
waned in the last month, it always does this time of year. Whilst
Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times. I am
fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of a
better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of low
value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for extra
residential development, and propery is much sought after. This means
that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
government wont get any capital gains tax. If you look more carefully
at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
decide to sell. It could actually become a good long term money
maker. Hey some of us have to be optimistic. Capital gains tax is a
consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and buy
a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic investment but
it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids off for a swim
in a crocodile infested river.
Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in this
new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This also
points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This means
that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs. I am old
enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my head
planted firmly in the sand. I also remember power cuts in the
seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest threat
to our economy).
I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered a
good long term investment option it is by no means safe. At least
with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
as God doesnt intervene. Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
Where do you stop worrying?
Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
into buying 12 or so years ago.
I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions as
it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about. Capital
gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought much
about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner rather
than later.
In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
cant win you cant break even!!!!
Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
for the advice,
Neil
mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it would
possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to mean the
Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to prevent
widescale panic. Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
waned in the last month, it always does this time of year. Whilst
Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times. I am
fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of a
better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of low
value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for extra
residential development, and propery is much sought after. This means
that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
government wont get any capital gains tax. If you look more carefully
at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
decide to sell. It could actually become a good long term money
maker. Hey some of us have to be optimistic. Capital gains tax is a
consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and buy
a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic investment but
it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids off for a swim
in a crocodile infested river.
Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in this
new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This also
points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This means
that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs. I am old
enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my head
planted firmly in the sand. I also remember power cuts in the
seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest threat
to our economy).
I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered a
good long term investment option it is by no means safe. At least
with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
as God doesnt intervene. Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
Where do you stop worrying?
Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
into buying 12 or so years ago.
I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions as
it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about. Capital
gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought much
about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner rather
than later.
In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
cant win you cant break even!!!!
Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
for the advice,
Neil
Dec 12th 2002, 6:00 pm
#17
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: newbury
Posts: 1,015
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Originally posted by Neil
I think you misunderstood the Banks statement Richard. They didnt
mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it would
possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to mean the
Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to prevent
widescale panic.
eddie george can't say -'sell your house now!!' his job is to keep the economy going
i heard the interview in question and he ended it by saying "well of course I can't predict the future -so a big downturn could happen"
Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
waned in the last month, it always does this time of year.
i agree it's the wrong time of year but this time last yr prices rose at the same high level..
Whilst
Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times.
AH so one of those "well it was different last time" moments..
job security is weakening..sure at the moment jobs are still around but there's been a drip drip of big names shedding jobs 1000 here 1000 there etc
I am
fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of a
better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of low
value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for extra
residential development, and propery is much sought after.
i'm in newbury which is a boom area too -vodaphone hq etc...
This means
that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
government wont get any capital gains tax.
if you want to emigrate and can afford it -then sure keep it..but if you need the money a -potential- 25% reduction is a huge gamble
If you look more carefully
at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
decide to sell.
of course,else houses would still be 100 quid -but don't forget a mortgage is 3x the loan 100k mge is 300k payback then all you've done is saved money not made money..it's a con really
It could actually become a good long term money
maker.
i have a property rented 25K mortgage and I don't 'make' money from it ... this 'buy to let -earn a fortune' is a myth (until you have at least 5 properties let out..)
Hey some of us have to be optimistic.
that's nice..
Capital gains tax is a
consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and buy
a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic investment but
it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids off for a swim
in a crocodile infested river.
yes the camper bit has crossed our minds (not the kid bit tho';-)
Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in this
new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This also
points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This means
that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs.
ah sounds like " it's different this time-i keep telling you"
I am old
enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my head
planted firmly in the sand.
me too...what caused that one -interest rates? -no -confidence in the job market..see above.
I also remember power cuts in the
seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest threat
to our economy).
no the american ecomomy is THE biggest threat to our economy -don't blame the firemen!!
I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered a
good long term investment option it is by no means safe.
a study found that like for like shares were a better bet long term that property..
At least
with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
as God doesnt intervene.
and therein lies the rub..
Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
Where do you stop worrying?
just after you die...
Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
into buying 12 or so years ago.
rents here are silly -but the market is changing and people are saying "nope too high I'll pay this much or you can leave it empty"..
I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions as
it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about. Capital
gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought much
about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner rather
than later.
In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
cant win you cant break even!!!!
Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
for the advice,
no one is whinging...but we (in the property owner/emigration market) need to be aware of potential pitfalls
no one has a crystal ball but we should all try to gather as much info as poss ..
cheers
richard
Neil
I think you misunderstood the Banks statement Richard. They didnt
mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it would
possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to mean the
Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to prevent
widescale panic.
eddie george can't say -'sell your house now!!' his job is to keep the economy going
i heard the interview in question and he ended it by saying "well of course I can't predict the future -so a big downturn could happen"
Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
waned in the last month, it always does this time of year.
i agree it's the wrong time of year but this time last yr prices rose at the same high level..
Whilst
Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times.
AH so one of those "well it was different last time" moments..
job security is weakening..sure at the moment jobs are still around but there's been a drip drip of big names shedding jobs 1000 here 1000 there etc
I am
fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of a
better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of low
value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for extra
residential development, and propery is much sought after.
i'm in newbury which is a boom area too -vodaphone hq etc...
This means
that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
government wont get any capital gains tax.
if you want to emigrate and can afford it -then sure keep it..but if you need the money a -potential- 25% reduction is a huge gamble
If you look more carefully
at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
decide to sell.
of course,else houses would still be 100 quid -but don't forget a mortgage is 3x the loan 100k mge is 300k payback then all you've done is saved money not made money..it's a con really
It could actually become a good long term money
maker.
i have a property rented 25K mortgage and I don't 'make' money from it ... this 'buy to let -earn a fortune' is a myth (until you have at least 5 properties let out..)
Hey some of us have to be optimistic.
that's nice..
Capital gains tax is a
consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and buy
a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic investment but
it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids off for a swim
in a crocodile infested river.
yes the camper bit has crossed our minds (not the kid bit tho';-)
Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in this
new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This also
points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This means
that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs.
ah sounds like " it's different this time-i keep telling you"
I am old
enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my head
planted firmly in the sand.
me too...what caused that one -interest rates? -no -confidence in the job market..see above.
I also remember power cuts in the
seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest threat
to our economy).
no the american ecomomy is THE biggest threat to our economy -don't blame the firemen!!
I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered a
good long term investment option it is by no means safe.
a study found that like for like shares were a better bet long term that property..
At least
with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
as God doesnt intervene.
and therein lies the rub..
Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
Where do you stop worrying?
just after you die...
Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
into buying 12 or so years ago.
rents here are silly -but the market is changing and people are saying "nope too high I'll pay this much or you can leave it empty"..
I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions as
it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about. Capital
gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought much
about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner rather
than later.
In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
cant win you cant break even!!!!
Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
for the advice,
no one is whinging...but we (in the property owner/emigration market) need to be aware of potential pitfalls
no one has a crystal ball but we should all try to gather as much info as poss ..
cheers
richard
Neil
Dec 12th 2002, 11:04 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Thanks for all the comments Richard, made me smile.
I hope no burly fireman is going to come and beat down my door, I can
see the firestation from outside my front door. I wont go there(the
firemens issue) because I do have a few strong views on that
particularly being an ex-serviceman.
Your last sentence is the most interesting one, no one has a crystal
ball and I do understand all your point of views though obviously I
dont agree whole heartedly.
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears. Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil
I hope no burly fireman is going to come and beat down my door, I can
see the firestation from outside my front door. I wont go there(the
firemens issue) because I do have a few strong views on that
particularly being an ex-serviceman.
Your last sentence is the most interesting one, no one has a crystal
ball and I do understand all your point of views though obviously I
dont agree whole heartedly.
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears. Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil
Dec 13th 2002, 8:03 am
#19
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: newbury
Posts: 1,015
Re: UK / Australia House prices
I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears.
same for house prices ;-)
Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
don't teel me " it's different now" ;-)
if you look at the share index it too shows a rise from inception (along with the up's and downs' of the house market)
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
you know you can't get away with this..you're mixing long term with a very short term (two weeks!!!)
i remember sage software saying that £110 invested in '80's became £1million in '90's ...
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
thats assuming i agree that consumers are out selling in droves!! personally i feel spending will dip
there see you after christmas when the returns are in ;-)
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears.
same for house prices ;-)
Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
don't teel me " it's different now" ;-)
if you look at the share index it too shows a rise from inception (along with the up's and downs' of the house market)
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
you know you can't get away with this..you're mixing long term with a very short term (two weeks!!!)
i remember sage software saying that £110 invested in '80's became £1million in '90's ...
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
thats assuming i agree that consumers are out selling in droves!! personally i feel spending will dip
there see you after christmas when the returns are in ;-)
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Dec 13th 2002, 1:45 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Normally I wouldn't quote this much of a previous message, or top post,
but I'm making an exception here because what I'm replying to is so
badly formatted I can't respond to it in a conventional way.
The entire posting by r.bartlett is totally unreadable because it is
all marked as quoted text from Neil.
Can you folks posting via BritishExpats make an effort to format
your postings properly, or failing that just post straight to
usenet using a proper newsreader. This isn't the first time a
hopelessly misformatted posting has originated from BritishExpats.
I checked the formatting on the BritishExpats site and it's
all a quote there too. Totally unreadible. Please make an effort
to read what you type and check it's formatted properly.
Thanks.
In r.bartlett wrote:
>
> Originally posted by Neil
>> I think you misunderstood the Banks statement Richard. They didnt
>> mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
>> rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it
>> would possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to
>> mean the Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to
>> prevent widescale panic.
>> eddie george can't say -'sell your house now!!' his job is to keep
>> the economy going
>> i heard the interview in question and he ended it by saying "well of
>> course I can't predict the future -so a big downturn could happen"
>> Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
>> waned in the last month, it always does this time of year.
>> i agree it's the wrong time of year but this time last yr prices rose
>> at the same high level..
>> Whilst
>> Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times.
>> AH so one of those "well it was different last time" moments..
>> job security is weakening..sure at the moment jobs are still around
>> but there's been a drip drip of big names shedding jobs 1000 here
>> 1000 there etc
>> I am
>> fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
>> London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of
>> a better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of
>> low value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for
>> extra residential development, and propery is much sought after.
>> i'm in newbury which is a boom area too -vodaphone hq etc...
>> This means
>> that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
>> scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
>> wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
>> for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
>> government wont get any capital gains tax.
>> if you want to emigrate and can afford it -then sure keep it..but if
>> you need the money a -potential- 25% reduction is a huge gamble
>> If you look more carefully
>> at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
>> sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
>> decide to sell.
>> of course,else houses would still be 100 quid -but don't forget a
>> mortgage is 3x the loan 100k mge is 300k payback then all you've done
>> is saved money not made money..it's a con really
>> It could actually become a good long term money
>> maker.
>> i have a property rented 25K mortgage and I don't 'make' money from
>> it ... this 'buy to let -earn a fortune' is a myth (until you have at
>> least 5 properties let out..)
>> Hey some of us have to be optimistic.
>> that's nice..
>> Capital gains tax is a
>> consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
>> Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
>> and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
>> sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and
>> buy a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic
>> investment but it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids
>> off for a swim in a crocodile infested river.
>> yes the camper bit has crossed our minds (not the kid bit tho';-)
>> Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
>> virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in
>> this new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This
>> also points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This
>> means that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs.
>> ah sounds like " it's different this time-i keep telling you"
>> I am old
>> enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my
>> head planted firmly in the sand.
>> me too...what caused that one -interest rates? -no -confidence in the
>> job market..see above.
>> I also remember power cuts in the
>> seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest
>> threat to our economy).
>> no the american ecomomy is THE biggest threat to our economy -don't
>> blame the firemen!!
>> I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered
>> a good long term investment option it is by no means safe.
>> a study found that like for like shares were a better bet long term
>> that property..
>> At least
>> with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
>> as God doesnt intervene.
>> and therein lies the rub..
>> Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
>> Where do you stop worrying?
>> just after you die...
>> Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
>> in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
>> has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
>> into buying 12 or so years ago.
>> rents here are silly -but the market is changing and people are
>> saying "nope too high I'll pay this much or you can leave it empty"..
>> I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions
>> as it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
>> certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about.
>> Capital gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought
>> much about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner
>> rather than later.
>> In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
>> actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
>> it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
>> possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
>> cant win you cant break even!!!!
>> Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
>> will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
>> Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
>> for the advice,
>> no one is whinging...but we (in the property owner/emigration market)
>> need to be aware of potential pitfalls
>> no one has a crystal ball but we should all try to gather as much
>> info as poss ..
>> cheers
>> richard
> Neil
>
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
>
but I'm making an exception here because what I'm replying to is so
badly formatted I can't respond to it in a conventional way.
The entire posting by r.bartlett is totally unreadable because it is
all marked as quoted text from Neil.
Can you folks posting via BritishExpats make an effort to format
your postings properly, or failing that just post straight to
usenet using a proper newsreader. This isn't the first time a
hopelessly misformatted posting has originated from BritishExpats.
I checked the formatting on the BritishExpats site and it's
all a quote there too. Totally unreadible. Please make an effort
to read what you type and check it's formatted properly.
Thanks.
In r.bartlett wrote:
>
> Originally posted by Neil
>> I think you misunderstood the Banks statement Richard. They didnt
>> mean the market was unsustainable, what they meant was the present
>> rate of price rises will be unsustainable and they added that it
>> would possibly level off. Perhaps you doom merchants take that to
>> mean the Bank Of England are being over economic with the facts to
>> prevent widescale panic.
>> eddie george can't say -'sell your house now!!' his job is to keep
>> the economy going
>> i heard the interview in question and he ended it by saying "well of
>> course I can't predict the future -so a big downturn could happen"
>> Someone mentioned that interest in house buying had
>> waned in the last month, it always does this time of year.
>> i agree it's the wrong time of year but this time last yr prices rose
>> at the same high level..
>> Whilst
>> Dons graph looks scary so did our economy at those times.
>> AH so one of those "well it was different last time" moments..
>> job security is weakening..sure at the moment jobs are still around
>> but there's been a drip drip of big names shedding jobs 1000 here
>> 1000 there etc
>> I am
>> fortunate that i live in the most densely populated area outside
>> London and in actual fact during the last property crash(for want of
>> a better expression) the few repossesions were very small homes of
>> low value and desirability. This is an area that has no room for
>> extra residential development, and propery is much sought after.
>> i'm in newbury which is a boom area too -vodaphone hq etc...
>> This means
>> that most likely at worst I would not make any money. Worst case
>> scenario is all your doom and gloom forecasts come true and no one
>> wants to pay what I am asking. Then I may just have to hang on to it
>> for a while or take some loss and console myself in the fact that the
>> government wont get any capital gains tax.
>> if you want to emigrate and can afford it -then sure keep it..but if
>> you need the money a -potential- 25% reduction is a huge gamble
>> If you look more carefully
>> at the graph over the long term it has risen(just like shares). I am
>> sure my property will be worth an awful lot more when I retire if I
>> decide to sell.
>> of course,else houses would still be 100 quid -but don't forget a
>> mortgage is 3x the loan 100k mge is 300k payback then all you've done
>> is saved money not made money..it's a con really
>> It could actually become a good long term money
>> maker.
>> i have a property rented 25K mortgage and I don't 'make' money from
>> it ... this 'buy to let -earn a fortune' is a myth (until you have at
>> least 5 properties let out..)
>> Hey some of us have to be optimistic.
>> that's nice..
>> Capital gains tax is a
>> consideration I must admit. When I come close to leaving for
>> Australia I will certainly take advice from someone like Alan Collet
>> and make a decision on whether or not to keep my present property,
>> sell and buy two smaller ones or indeed to just take the money and
>> buy a Huge Traveller Van. Now that would be a bad economic
>> investment but it would be bloody good fun once I'd dropped the kids
>> off for a swim in a crocodile infested river.
>> yes the camper bit has crossed our minds (not the kid bit tho';-)
>> Also dont forget what I stated earlier and this I firmly believe,
>> virtually all families/partnerships have both partners working in
>> this new era. As recently as 15 years ago this wasnt the norm. This
>> also points to the fact that there are more jobs out there. This
>> means that the economy is very bouyant to support all these jobs.
>> ah sounds like " it's different this time-i keep telling you"
>> I am old
>> enough to remember clearly the last house crash so I dont have my
>> head planted firmly in the sand.
>> me too...what caused that one -interest rates? -no -confidence in the
>> job market..see above.
>> I also remember power cuts in the
>> seventies due to strikes(the firemen issue could be the biggest
>> threat to our economy).
>> no the american ecomomy is THE biggest threat to our economy -don't
>> blame the firemen!!
>> I agree with the share option to a point. Whilst this is considered
>> a good long term investment option it is by no means safe.
>> a study found that like for like shares were a better bet long term
>> that property..
>> At least
>> with property you can drive by it and it will always be there so long
>> as God doesnt intervene.
>> and therein lies the rub..
>> Be bit difficult when living in Oz too.
>> Where do you stop worrying?
>> just after you die...
>> Someone mentioned that selling and renting here was cheaper even here
>> in the UK. Thats certainly not true, well not here anyway. It never
>> has been in the 15 years I lived in this city, thats why i was forced
>> into buying 12 or so years ago.
>> rents here are silly -but the market is changing and people are
>> saying "nope too high I'll pay this much or you can leave it empty"..
>> I apologise for my ramblings but its good to have these discussions
>> as it really does help you to make more informed decisions and has
>> certainly focused my mind more on what I need to think about.
>> Capital gains tax in particular, I was aware of it but hadnt thought
>> much about it lately. I should maybe contact Alan Collet sooner
>> rather than later.
>> In consideration of what Don said, I wonder if theres any mileage in
>> actually buying 2 properties if I could be so crafty to get away with
>> it and borrow up to the max on each and take as much capital out as
>> possible. Whos quote is that goes something like, Lifes a game, you
>> cant win you cant break even!!!!
>> Us Brits are depressing, no wonder the aussies call us whingers. I
>> will be whinging if you guys turn out to be more right than I think.
>> Then you can all say told you so u %$*& wit. Ramblings over, Thanks
>> for the advice,
>> no one is whinging...but we (in the property owner/emigration market)
>> need to be aware of potential pitfalls
>> no one has a crystal ball but we should all try to gather as much
>> info as poss ..
>> cheers
>> richard
> Neil
>
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
>
Dec 13th 2002, 6:17 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
In pleasancefamily wrote:
>
> Sorry Rob, whilst your post is not rude or particularly arrogant it
> comes over as patronising and high & mighty and rather unfriendly.
It wasn't meant to be unfriendly. If I wanted to be unfriendly I'd
have stooped to personal insults in much the way you just did.
<Don's insults removed>
>
> Sorry Rob, whilst your post is not rude or particularly arrogant it
> comes over as patronising and high & mighty and rather unfriendly.
It wasn't meant to be unfriendly. If I wanted to be unfriendly I'd
have stooped to personal insults in much the way you just did.
<Don's insults removed>
Dec 14th 2002, 8:04 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
In pleasancefamily wrote:
>> <Don's insults removed>
>
> Rob,
>
> Not sure where you get the personal insults from.
Welcome to my killfile Don. Goodbye.
>> <Don's insults removed>
>
> Rob,
>
> Not sure where you get the personal insults from.
Welcome to my killfile Don. Goodbye.
Dec 14th 2002, 11:41 am
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Gold Coast- the best place in the world
Posts: 3,196
Re: UK / Australia House prices
[QUOTE][SIZE=1]Originally posted by Neil
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares
The main worry with this is that you get tenants that PAY the rent.
I could tell you a few horror renting stories that a close friend of ours had whilst renting out their house and they didn't even go abroad.
The short version is that the tenants just stopped paying rent. Because you will not be over here it will be nigh on impossible for you to get them removed from the property. My friend had to attend court about 3 times and the agent was also totally useless.
They lived rent free for 16 months and completed gutted the pla
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares
The main worry with this is that you get tenants that PAY the rent.
I could tell you a few horror renting stories that a close friend of ours had whilst renting out their house and they didn't even go abroad.
The short version is that the tenants just stopped paying rent. Because you will not be over here it will be nigh on impossible for you to get them removed from the property. My friend had to attend court about 3 times and the agent was also totally useless.
They lived rent free for 16 months and completed gutted the pla
Dec 14th 2002, 11:44 am
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Gold Coast- the best place in the world
Posts: 3,196
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Originally posted by Neil
Thanks for all the comments Richard, made me smile.
I hope no burly fireman is going to come and beat down my door, I can
see the firestation from outside my front door. I wont go there(the
firemens issue) because I do have a few strong views on that
particularly being an ex-serviceman.
Your last sentence is the most interesting one, no one has a crystal
ball and I do understand all your point of views though obviously I
dont agree whole heartedly.
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears. Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil
Thanks for all the comments Richard, made me smile.
I hope no burly fireman is going to come and beat down my door, I can
see the firestation from outside my front door. I wont go there(the
firemens issue) because I do have a few strong views on that
particularly being an ex-serviceman.
Your last sentence is the most interesting one, no one has a crystal
ball and I do understand all your point of views though obviously I
dont agree whole heartedly.
My own personal feeling is that if I can make enough on the rent to
just pay the mortgage all well and good. That will give me the safety
net I crave. I dont think I could take the risk and worry of selling
my house and ploughing all my money into shares. It could make lots
of money due to the low share prices at the moment but then it could
all come down round my ears. Shares may be considered the best long
term investment going on past record, but times are a changing.
People investing in Claims Direct a couple of years back bought in at
around £1.80 per share to then see it come down to 10 pence a share
within a few short weeks.
Be interesting to see how it all pans out.
What will be interesting to see is if consumers have bought with
confidence this xmas. I bet they do. No dont say it, let me nip in
before you. "But watch them try to pay later"!!
Yesterdays history, tomorrows a mystery, Live for Today.
Neil
Dec 14th 2002, 11:49 am
#25
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Gold Coast- the best place in the world
Posts: 3,196
sorry I wrote a whole page basically warning you to be careful as my friend was nearly repossed due to not being able to get the tennants removed.
The post would not go through.
To re-cap:
Make sure you have heaps of money in the bank as a reserve in case they dont pay the rent.
How would you pay a mortgage in pounds when you are earning the low value Dollar, if you need to .
How would you get the tennants evicted, you may need to attend court etc if you are in Australia?
Agents may sound good but when they come across nasty tennants they steer clear and you may have to involve the Police.
I could go on and on as I know about 3 different pals / family members that have had awful tennants.
I would advise against it unless you can leave a lot of money in the bank as a back up.
The post would not go through.
To re-cap:
Make sure you have heaps of money in the bank as a reserve in case they dont pay the rent.
How would you pay a mortgage in pounds when you are earning the low value Dollar, if you need to .
How would you get the tennants evicted, you may need to attend court etc if you are in Australia?
Agents may sound good but when they come across nasty tennants they steer clear and you may have to involve the Police.
I could go on and on as I know about 3 different pals / family members that have had awful tennants.
I would advise against it unless you can leave a lot of money in the bank as a back up.
Dec 14th 2002, 6:23 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Thanks for the advice Tina,
Bad tenants are a worry. I intend to employ an estate agent whom I
know. I would pay the higher level of fee which covers court costs
etc if the need arises. I believe his maximum fees are 14% of the
rent which although high would give me the peace of mind I would
prefer. If that fails then I hire the services of the local mafia.
If they wont take the job then I guess I buy a flight back to the UK
and do it myself.
No seriously though, it is obviously a risk. I'm not sure what I
would do if the mortgage wasnt being paid. It may pan out that the
Mortgage lender wont allow me to rent it out without a good reserve of
cash invested for such a rainy day. Its obviously in the estate
agents best interest to keep the property full of paying tenants
otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
most part is for doing nothing. Something else to worry about, oh
dear.
Thanks
Neil
Bad tenants are a worry. I intend to employ an estate agent whom I
know. I would pay the higher level of fee which covers court costs
etc if the need arises. I believe his maximum fees are 14% of the
rent which although high would give me the peace of mind I would
prefer. If that fails then I hire the services of the local mafia.
If they wont take the job then I guess I buy a flight back to the UK
and do it myself.
No seriously though, it is obviously a risk. I'm not sure what I
would do if the mortgage wasnt being paid. It may pan out that the
Mortgage lender wont allow me to rent it out without a good reserve of
cash invested for such a rainy day. Its obviously in the estate
agents best interest to keep the property full of paying tenants
otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
most part is for doing nothing. Something else to worry about, oh
dear.
Thanks
Neil
Dec 15th 2002, 6:29 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Neil
A good agent is key. Probably better to use an established local
firm, and if you can get references from other landlords, all the
better.
It's possible as far as I know to get insurance against legal costs
(in case of bad tenants etc) and you should consider this strongly.
Jeremy
>On 14 Dec 2002 11:23:18 -0800, [email protected] (Neil) wrote:
>Thanks for the advice Tina,
>Bad tenants are a worry. I intend to employ an estate agent whom I
>know. I would pay the higher level of fee which covers court costs
>etc if the need arises. I believe his maximum fees are 14% of the
>rent which although high would give me the peace of mind I would
>prefer. If that fails then I hire the services of the local mafia.
>If they wont take the job then I guess I buy a flight back to the UK
>and do it myself.
>No seriously though, it is obviously a risk. I'm not sure what I
>would do if the mortgage wasnt being paid. It may pan out that the
>Mortgage lender wont allow me to rent it out without a good reserve of
>cash invested for such a rainy day. Its obviously in the estate
>agents best interest to keep the property full of paying tenants
>otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
>most part is for doing nothing. Something else to worry about, oh
>dear.
>Thanks
>Neil
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
A good agent is key. Probably better to use an established local
firm, and if you can get references from other landlords, all the
better.
It's possible as far as I know to get insurance against legal costs
(in case of bad tenants etc) and you should consider this strongly.
Jeremy
>On 14 Dec 2002 11:23:18 -0800, [email protected] (Neil) wrote:
>Thanks for the advice Tina,
>Bad tenants are a worry. I intend to employ an estate agent whom I
>know. I would pay the higher level of fee which covers court costs
>etc if the need arises. I believe his maximum fees are 14% of the
>rent which although high would give me the peace of mind I would
>prefer. If that fails then I hire the services of the local mafia.
>If they wont take the job then I guess I buy a flight back to the UK
>and do it myself.
>No seriously though, it is obviously a risk. I'm not sure what I
>would do if the mortgage wasnt being paid. It may pan out that the
>Mortgage lender wont allow me to rent it out without a good reserve of
>cash invested for such a rainy day. Its obviously in the estate
>agents best interest to keep the property full of paying tenants
>otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
>most part is for doing nothing. Something else to worry about, oh
>dear.
>Thanks
>Neil
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
Dec 15th 2002, 9:00 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Neil,
Just be sure that your agent will carry out full inspections of your property on a regular basis.
We are renting at the mo waiting for visa.
The agent who look after our property for the owner comes round every 3-4 months but they walk inside the front door stand and chat, we say do you wan't to look around, they say no it looks like your model tennants. They tick all the boxes on their list and they are off again - whole process prob 5 minutes max and they haven't looked at anything. We are model tennants but how do they know that? Make sure the agent you choose will be thorough and you should have no probs.
Shelly
Just be sure that your agent will carry out full inspections of your property on a regular basis.
We are renting at the mo waiting for visa.
The agent who look after our property for the owner comes round every 3-4 months but they walk inside the front door stand and chat, we say do you wan't to look around, they say no it looks like your model tennants. They tick all the boxes on their list and they are off again - whole process prob 5 minutes max and they haven't looked at anything. We are model tennants but how do they know that? Make sure the agent you choose will be thorough and you should have no probs.
Shelly
Dec 15th 2002, 2:12 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: UK / Australia House prices
> I would pay the higher level of fee which covers court costs
> etc if the need arises.
I think you will find that the fee doesn't cover court costs. The agent will
simply refer any non-payment back to you to pay the costs of collection.
> otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
> most part is for doing nothing.
You obviously have never managed a property before!
--
Regards
-Terry
> etc if the need arises.
I think you will find that the fee doesn't cover court costs. The agent will
simply refer any non-payment back to you to pay the costs of collection.
> otherwise he wont be recieving his fat fee every month, which for the
> most part is for doing nothing.
You obviously have never managed a property before!
--
Regards
-Terry
Dec 15th 2002, 3:32 pm
#30
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 82
Re: UK / Australia House prices
Neil
Just to add to previous advice, we have rented our flat in London out for around 5 years, and most tenants have been very good, but we did have one who stopped paying rent. We were not allowed to forcebly remove them by law, they had all the rights, and they can stay there until you take them to court and have them evicted, another costly experience. We lost a lot of money, and there is nothing you can do about it. The law is completely on the side of the tenant, or so it seems.
We are selling our house and it would have made sense to rent out our flat when we go to Aus, in order to stay on the property ladder in the UK, but after the trouble we've had, and the money it cost us, there is no way I'd consider it even for a moment. It's just not worth the hassle it can cause and the money it can cost.
Just to add to previous advice, we have rented our flat in London out for around 5 years, and most tenants have been very good, but we did have one who stopped paying rent. We were not allowed to forcebly remove them by law, they had all the rights, and they can stay there until you take them to court and have them evicted, another costly experience. We lost a lot of money, and there is nothing you can do about it. The law is completely on the side of the tenant, or so it seems.
We are selling our house and it would have made sense to rent out our flat when we go to Aus, in order to stay on the property ladder in the UK, but after the trouble we've had, and the money it cost us, there is no way I'd consider it even for a moment. It's just not worth the hassle it can cause and the money it can cost.
