Bradburns

Hi, all, can't believe it, we're waiting on a desicion from tra. OH is an on the job trained brickie, but he did do an informal apprenticeship. In his statement of service he refers to completing an on the job informal apprenticeship, but i can't remember there being anything on the tra application saying anything about pathways a, b, c, d or e, nothing at all i have just looked at my copies, so how do you know witch pathway you're gonna be assessed on? Also we had our tra acknowledged on 24/8/07, do you think our application has already been looked at or do you think they've held all applications back? because they obviously knew what they were going to do.:curse:

John Mumford

Informal apprenticeship is more than just stating that you have had one. The 900 hours must follow these rules:
9.4. Formal training: The training cited must be formal, vocational training which:
9.4.1. consists of not less than 900 hours of structured tuition (including tuition by the military);
9.4.2. has been conducted in concurrence with employment;
9.4.3. is directly related to the occupation;
9.4.4. has been accredited by an authorised governing body whose standards can be independently verified by TRA (eg. government, military or recognised industrial party); and
9.4.5. results in the award of certification verifying completion of such training.

This and other details are available on the TRA website - look for UAC.

I do not want to sound pessimistic but those without good evidence of a realistic training program will have problems under pathway B.
Any MARA agent should be able to assist with options for those eligible, but they are more restrictive than the independent visas and thus not suitable for all situations.

ozzieclare2b

I am absolutely gutted. I told my brother about this thread and he rang his agent this morning. He is a floor finisher applying via TRA and has been told it doesnt look good. There is no formal quals for floor finishers here and even though hes been this trade for 24 yrs, has managed huge carpet chains and now runs his own business its not looking good.

I am heart broken as one of the deciders for us to go was the fact he was going too and now i feel like a bomb has been dropped on us.

Feel like crying

John Mumford

Hi Clare,
Has your brothers agent looked at the business visa options for him? Or perhaps regional sponsorship?
Don't give up just yet

ozzieclare2b

hi john not sure but would he not need a skills assessment for regional sponsorsip then?? We are off to Adelaide. Just spoken to him and his agent is looking into other options so feel a bit better now! How does the regional sponsorship work??

John Mumford

Hi Clare,
There is no automatic need for a skills assessment for a RSMS visa, however he still needs to demonstrate he has skills but this is assessed by the DIAC officer. They reserve the right to ask for a skills assessment - normally where the occupation is a licensed one - it is indicated on the full ASCO definition but common occupations that still require a skills assessment are Electricians, Gasfitters/plumbers etc. The RSMS Visa allows for exceptional appointments under certain circumstances, where the applicant can show reason why they meet the skills required without the normal processes - it is done on a case by case basis - There are too many factors to go into on line but your brothers agent should be able to explain. It is very much dependent ion getting the right job offer from the sponsoring company and of course having the appropriate work history
Good luck

gabb9

Hi John,
Me and my husband are in the same situation. He is a chef but with no formal qualifications. How do we go about getting a business in Australia to sponsor him?

John Mumford

Hi Ger,
Assuming you have the necessary experience etc. then the two main ways we use are:
1.) Go online find regional job offers and ring employers. I then usually talk to the potential employer on behalf of my clients to assist the process but it is the client they are hiring not me so you still have to sell yourself.
2.) Use a good employment agent to assist - they sometimes charge a fee for this work.
Some applicants do travel to Australia to finalise a job offer or use temporary 457 visas first but not all.

You will find the definitions of regional on the Immi.gov.au website.
Cheers

Flixy

What I don't understand is that on the application form, it doesn't give pathways a, b etc, it only has formal training, apprenticeship or vocational. So if we are going for pathway B (informal training), which one do we tick?

John Mumford

Hi Flixy,
You don't decide the pathway, TRA do - if you meet the criteria
As I said before the detail are here
http://www.workplace.gov.au/NR/rdonl...tember2007.pdf

gabb9

As far as I know, you tick apprecticeship. It is after the TRA have assessed you they put the skill pathway on your results for the Visa people to recognise.
I have found a way to have my husband's trade(Chef) recognised, based on work experience alone. The assessors here in Ireland will assess him based on his experience and award a certificate if he passes. Then hopefully the TRA will accept this. Fingers crossed. Everyone should find out if it is possible to do this in any other trades.

John do you think the TRA will accept this cetificate?

Ian444

Does electrician not come under vetassess now, i think your one of the lucky ones and will be able to have your skills assessed by them now i don't know if they accept works experience or not but somebody on here will i'm sure.
If you can i would do it as soon as poss in case vetassess change the way they assess like TRA has.

Flixy

Thanks for clearing that up John, i've had a look at the link and think pathway B would be our route, but does this mean that my husband would have to have been in training for 5 years? Or am I reading that wrong? He did 2 years on-job and college training then was able to work unsupervised. He then continued in that line of work for 20 years.

10. Skill Pathway B (5 years informal apprenticeship)
10.1. Employment: The apprenticeship cited must comprise of a period of directly related
and relevant employment and acceptable formal training of not less than five years
duration.

10.2. In addition, the employment must meet the following conditions:
10.2.1. the apprentice completed on-the-job training under the direct supervision of a
qualified tradesperson in the occupation or trade; and
10.2.2. successful completion of the informal apprenticeship has resulted in the
person being recognised by an acceptable employer as a fully qualified
tradesperson.

Wendy

Not sure how they assess them, but here's the website for anyone who wants to investigate http://vetassess.com.au/index.cfm?menu=1.3a

John Mumford

Hi All,
The basics for pathway B are:
1.) 5 years of work evidence demonstrating the training as you described AND
2.) Formal training as quoted below

10.3. Formal training: The training cited must be formal, vocational training which:
10.3.1. consists of not less than 900 hours of structured tuition;
10.3.2. has been conducted within 2 years of the directly related employment;
10.3.3. is directly related to the occupation;
10.3.4. has been accredited by an authorised governing body whose standards can be independently verified by TRA (eg. government, military or recognised industrial party); and
10.3.5. results in certification verifying completion of such training.

What constitutes the 900 hours formal training is down to TRA in the final analysis but normally you would expect it to be contact time with the body providing the training. The issue of 'retrospective' issuing of certificates is one I will be discussing with TRA shortly, but I do not expect a wide definition.
Vetassess do have extensive notes on their website and do take into account experience, but do not have any numbers of years or hours as per the TRA guidelines - perhaps Tony or one of the other agents has discussed this with VETASSESS? I do know that they have a provisional timetable for the practical exams - every 2 months in London & Glasgow - does not say for how long or how many applicants they can test - so 'first in best dressed ' at this stage.