Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Dec 4th 2008, 2:20 am
#31
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 69
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
First off, I've no reason to doubt Alan is a good agent.
All I know is that having read a lot of threads on here prior to applying and since applying (in March) that a very common complaint appears to be a lack of response from agents. Given that it's a four-figure fee (which I initially thought included the app fee only to be told it was in addition
), I'm glad I chose not to use one (I have a straightforward 176 app).
As with most things, people are quicker to highlight when things go wrong. As a result agents probably get a worse rep than they deserve. If everyone who was happy with their agent was as vociferous, it would be a more balanced debate.
The final point is about this forum and others like it, working in partnership with the immi.gov.au website. So much info is now available online that agents will become increasingly less necessary than they were when paper-based was the only way to go and less info and anecdotal advice was available. I'm sure many will continue, but perhaps see less cases than before.
All I know is that having read a lot of threads on here prior to applying and since applying (in March) that a very common complaint appears to be a lack of response from agents. Given that it's a four-figure fee (which I initially thought included the app fee only to be told it was in addition
), I'm glad I chose not to use one (I have a straightforward 176 app).As with most things, people are quicker to highlight when things go wrong. As a result agents probably get a worse rep than they deserve. If everyone who was happy with their agent was as vociferous, it would be a more balanced debate.
The final point is about this forum and others like it, working in partnership with the immi.gov.au website. So much info is now available online that agents will become increasingly less necessary than they were when paper-based was the only way to go and less info and anecdotal advice was available. I'm sure many will continue, but perhaps see less cases than before.
Dec 4th 2008, 2:26 am
#32
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Have a re-read of some of the above posts, Nige (not yours). One or two are not particularly complimentary ...
I'm afraid I don't have stats comparing success vs non success, and analysing agent involvement within this. The Department might have this, but so far as I know it isn't generally available.
As to competent agents versus the less able: that would be more of a subjective issue. I'm not sure how one discerns between the two. Indeed, an agent who might be very good at one type of visa might not be so good at others.
The good professional advisor though knows when s/he is getting out of his/her depth and refers the matter to someone who has the required experience.
Best regards.
I'm afraid I don't have stats comparing success vs non success, and analysing agent involvement within this. The Department might have this, but so far as I know it isn't generally available.
As to competent agents versus the less able: that would be more of a subjective issue. I'm not sure how one discerns between the two. Indeed, an agent who might be very good at one type of visa might not be so good at others.
The good professional advisor though knows when s/he is getting out of his/her depth and refers the matter to someone who has the required experience.
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 2:36 am
#33
(^v^)
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: North East Tasmania
Posts: 2,199
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
in hindsight wouldnt have wasted money on an agent, like someone else said still have to do all the work yourself they just simply post it off... or dont in our case but thats another story... since getting our visa a good friend of ours did it alone and got the visa a hell of a lot quicker!
Dec 4th 2008, 2:37 am
#34
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Have a re-read of some of the above posts, Nige (not yours). One or two are not particularly complimentary ...
I'm afraid I don't have stats comparing success vs non success, and analysing agent involvement within this. The Department might have this, but so far as I know it isn't generally available.
As to competent agents versus the less able: that would be more of a subjective issue. I'm not sure how one discerns between the two. Indeed, an agent who might be very good at one type of visa might not be so good at others.
The good professional advisor though knows when s/he is getting out of his/her depth and refers the matter to someone who has the required experience.
Best regards.
I'm afraid I don't have stats comparing success vs non success, and analysing agent involvement within this. The Department might have this, but so far as I know it isn't generally available.
As to competent agents versus the less able: that would be more of a subjective issue. I'm not sure how one discerns between the two. Indeed, an agent who might be very good at one type of visa might not be so good at others.
The good professional advisor though knows when s/he is getting out of his/her depth and refers the matter to someone who has the required experience.
Best regards.
'Sadly, we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ...'
Maybe you can answer another question for me. A good friend of mine Mary1967 used a self thought up tactic to get her visa processed. She constantly emailed in payslips and other docs which would then have to be added to her application. We all thought it worked. and we all thought it worked even moreso when others did the same and got CO's very soon after that. My friend Flyaway was looking for a 475 visa which were taking a stupid amount of time for those with agents and not. she used Mary's tactic and got hers quicker than nearly all the others. it seems that you may or may not get it done quickly. But, i dont really see agent-aided apps coming through any quicker. in fact, neither Mary, Flyaway and myself used agents.
The purpose of an agent as i see it is for peace of mind along with helping out when a situation is a bit more unique than the norm. However, are they necessary? Thats probably 1 thing they are becoming less of, especially over the past year.... in my opinion.
Dec 4th 2008, 2:52 am
#35
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Nige,
1. "Sadly, we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ..." and " ... you must have those stats as you said on your very first post on this thread." Your point does not flow from my comment. I know that we are following up more skilled applications now than we did in the past - which is not simply because we are handling a larger caseload.
2. Re sending documents regularly to the ASPC: an interesting tactic. Unlikely to endear one to the Department, but it may work if only to stop the applicant being a nuisance.
3. I understand - and to a large amount accept - the points about the availability of information on the internet and the consequent reduced need to engage professional assistance. This does though assume an ability generally to interpret and manage a legal process. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but in a life changing process I'd nevertheless not be leaving too much to chance, or be hostage to interpretations that might be wrong.
4. Ultimately whether to engage an agent or not is perhaps an issue of one's own attitude to the risks inherent in the visa application process, personal confidence, availability of time to research - before the application is submitted and after the application has been lodged, and the availability of funds.
Best regards.
1. "Sadly, we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ..." and " ... you must have those stats as you said on your very first post on this thread." Your point does not flow from my comment. I know that we are following up more skilled applications now than we did in the past - which is not simply because we are handling a larger caseload.
2. Re sending documents regularly to the ASPC: an interesting tactic. Unlikely to endear one to the Department, but it may work if only to stop the applicant being a nuisance.
3. I understand - and to a large amount accept - the points about the availability of information on the internet and the consequent reduced need to engage professional assistance. This does though assume an ability generally to interpret and manage a legal process. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but in a life changing process I'd nevertheless not be leaving too much to chance, or be hostage to interpretations that might be wrong.
4. Ultimately whether to engage an agent or not is perhaps an issue of one's own attitude to the risks inherent in the visa application process, personal confidence, availability of time to research - before the application is submitted and after the application has been lodged, and the availability of funds.
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 4:27 am
#36
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Nige,
1. "Sadly, we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ..." and " ... you must have those stats as you said on your very first post on this thread." Your point does not flow from my comment. I know that we are following up more skilled applications now than we did in the past - which is not simply because we are handling a larger caseload.
2. Re sending documents regularly to the ASPC: an interesting tactic. Unlikely to endear one to the Department, but it may work if only to stop the applicant being a nuisance.
3. I understand - and to a large amount accept - the points about the availability of information on the internet and the consequent reduced need to engage professional assistance. This does though assume an ability generally to interpret and manage a legal process. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but in a life changing process I'd nevertheless not be leaving too much to chance, or be hostage to interpretations that might be wrong.
4. Ultimately whether to engage an agent or not is perhaps an issue of one's own attitude to the risks inherent in the visa application process, personal confidence, availability of time to research - before the application is submitted and after the application has been lodged, and the availability of funds.
Best regards.
1. "Sadly, we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ..." and " ... you must have those stats as you said on your very first post on this thread." Your point does not flow from my comment. I know that we are following up more skilled applications now than we did in the past - which is not simply because we are handling a larger caseload.
2. Re sending documents regularly to the ASPC: an interesting tactic. Unlikely to endear one to the Department, but it may work if only to stop the applicant being a nuisance.
3. I understand - and to a large amount accept - the points about the availability of information on the internet and the consequent reduced need to engage professional assistance. This does though assume an ability generally to interpret and manage a legal process. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but in a life changing process I'd nevertheless not be leaving too much to chance, or be hostage to interpretations that might be wrong.
4. Ultimately whether to engage an agent or not is perhaps an issue of one's own attitude to the risks inherent in the visa application process, personal confidence, availability of time to research - before the application is submitted and after the application has been lodged, and the availability of funds.
Best regards.
2. I dont think anyone who applies for a visa minds being a nuisance if it gets them a visa. i think mary expected her to be seen as a bit of a nuisance but she also wanted to make sure that her case was being looked at by someone even if they werent a CO.
3. I applied on my own but dont think i left anything to chance. I did the research as anyone should. I think using an agent is actually leaving stuff to chance as you dont know if you have a goodie or a baddie.
4. Agreed except for the time issue. It takes time to get all your stuff together for an agent. It takes a BIT more time to research the visa process. I'm not suggesting that agents are only a chapter ahead of those who are applying. I'm simply saying that people only need to know their own circumstance. Agents need to know everyones.
Dec 4th 2008, 4:40 am
#37
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
What aspect of this comment of mine do you think is wrong, Nige:
" ... we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ......"
I am commenting in absolute terms (ie the number of applications that we manage that have to be followed up), and as a proportion of our caseload.
As to whether you are engaging a goodie or a baddie - I would have thought comments on this and other forums are a reasonable basis for making an appointment.
Best regards.
" ... we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ......"
I am commenting in absolute terms (ie the number of applications that we manage that have to be followed up), and as a proportion of our caseload.
As to whether you are engaging a goodie or a baddie - I would have thought comments on this and other forums are a reasonable basis for making an appointment.
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 4:46 am
#38
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
What aspect of this comment of mine do you think is wrong, Nige:
" ... we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ......"
I am commenting in absolute terms (ie the number of applications that we manage that have to be followed up), and as a proportion of our caseload.
As to whether you are engaging a goodie or a baddie - I would have thought comments on this and other forums are a reasonable basis for making an appointment.
Best regards.
" ... we are seeing more visa applications in recent months (particularly skilled applications) that have to be followed up because they appear to be falling down the cracks ......"
I am commenting in absolute terms (ie the number of applications that we manage that have to be followed up), and as a proportion of our caseload.
As to whether you are engaging a goodie or a baddie - I would have thought comments on this and other forums are a reasonable basis for making an appointment.
Best regards.
Its easy to say that some apps are getting overlooked but perhaps they all have a link between them. I'm just wondering if you knew of such a link or have looked into it.
If you know that more are 'falling down the cracks' then tell us the figures to prove it. Obviously we dont have those figures as we only deal with ourselves. Would be nice to see some proof of your claims though as, without proof they are either scaremongering statements or simply an assumption.
Dec 4th 2008, 4:52 am
#39
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Nige,
I have given examples from the last few days in one of my previous postings.
I am not at liberty to disclose names. All are e-lodged general skilled visa applications from the UK. There is no obvious pattern to those which are not being processed as we would expect, beyond noting that subclass 475 applicants appear to have been generally delayed (understood to be because of the unusual visa validity period - 3 years from the date of initial entry - compared with other general skilled visas).
Best regards.
I have given examples from the last few days in one of my previous postings.
I am not at liberty to disclose names. All are e-lodged general skilled visa applications from the UK. There is no obvious pattern to those which are not being processed as we would expect, beyond noting that subclass 475 applicants appear to have been generally delayed (understood to be because of the unusual visa validity period - 3 years from the date of initial entry - compared with other general skilled visas).
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 4:59 am
#40
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Nige,
I have given examples from the last few days in one of my previous postings.
I am not at liberty to disclose names. All are e-lodged general skilled visa applications from the UK. There is no obvious pattern to those which are not being processed as we would expect, beyond noting that subclass 475 applicants appear to have been generally delayed (understood to be because of the unusual visa validity period - 3 years from the date of initial entry - compared with other general skilled visas).
Best regards.
I have given examples from the last few days in one of my previous postings.
I am not at liberty to disclose names. All are e-lodged general skilled visa applications from the UK. There is no obvious pattern to those which are not being processed as we would expect, beyond noting that subclass 475 applicants appear to have been generally delayed (understood to be because of the unusual visa validity period - 3 years from the date of initial entry - compared with other general skilled visas).
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 5:07 am
#41
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Nige,
You are moving the goalposts.
The ratio is irrelevant to the point I have made previously - I suggest you re-read it.
If you are not prepared to accept the validity of my original comment there is no point in my responding to you.
Regards.
You are moving the goalposts.
The ratio is irrelevant to the point I have made previously - I suggest you re-read it.
If you are not prepared to accept the validity of my original comment there is no point in my responding to you.
Regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 5:18 am
#42
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Moving the goal posts? I've asked for the figures the whole time.
Dec 4th 2008, 5:29 am
#43
Migration Agent
Joined: May 2002
Location: Offices in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Geelong (Australia), and Southampton (UK)
Posts: 6,459
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
I think we're done. Thanks for the exchange Nige.
Best regards.
Best regards.
Dec 4th 2008, 5:38 am
#44
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,400
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Whilst I appreciate that there are some agents that are not quite as honest as they would have you believe, I will say that Alan is a respected agent on here who has got many people through the visa process.
I for one felt safer using an agent as my husband is from a high risk country and had it not been for our agent (George Lombard) and the way in which he presented our case (by far from straight forward), then I am sure we would have not been granted our visa.
Not only by his instruction, but several other things that I wont go in to, our case was complicated, he helped us every step of the way.
Now I have known Alan for a long time, have met him a couple of times and have also met lots of people that have used him for their visas and been perfectly happy with his services.
I think it is disrespectful to question him in this fashion and so publicly when he has given clear answers to the level that he is allowed to without breaking confidentiality.
He is not trying to scare anyone into getting his business, he is not hiding any information, he is telling you how it is. Just because many of you had an easy ride with your visa, it isn't like that for all of us.
I think if you all continue with questioning his motives as an agent or implying his answers are wrong, then why the hell should he post on here?
He gives alot of advice on this site for people and it wasn't that long ago a similar thread was about and both George and Alan stopped posting and many people lost out on the free advice they offered. Please dont let that happen again.
If you want to use an agent then it is your right to do so, if you dont think it necessary, then fine but it isn't fair to question the ethics of the reputable agents that have been established members of this site and are here to help.
I for one felt safer using an agent as my husband is from a high risk country and had it not been for our agent (George Lombard) and the way in which he presented our case (by far from straight forward), then I am sure we would have not been granted our visa.
Not only by his instruction, but several other things that I wont go in to, our case was complicated, he helped us every step of the way.
Now I have known Alan for a long time, have met him a couple of times and have also met lots of people that have used him for their visas and been perfectly happy with his services.
I think it is disrespectful to question him in this fashion and so publicly when he has given clear answers to the level that he is allowed to without breaking confidentiality.
He is not trying to scare anyone into getting his business, he is not hiding any information, he is telling you how it is. Just because many of you had an easy ride with your visa, it isn't like that for all of us.
I think if you all continue with questioning his motives as an agent or implying his answers are wrong, then why the hell should he post on here?
He gives alot of advice on this site for people and it wasn't that long ago a similar thread was about and both George and Alan stopped posting and many people lost out on the free advice they offered. Please dont let that happen again.
If you want to use an agent then it is your right to do so, if you dont think it necessary, then fine but it isn't fair to question the ethics of the reputable agents that have been established members of this site and are here to help.
Dec 4th 2008, 5:56 am
#45
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Thinking of not using an agent to save money
Whilst I appreciate that there are some agents that are not quite as honest as they would have you believe, I will say that Alan is a respected agent on here who has got many people through the visa process.
I for one felt safer using an agent as my husband is from a high risk country and had it not been for our agent (George Lombard) and the way in which he presented our case (by far from straight forward), then I am sure we would have not been granted our visa.
Not only by his instruction, but several other things that I wont go in to, our case was complicated, he helped us every step of the way.
Now I have known Alan for a long time, have met him a couple of times and have also met lots of people that have used him for their visas and been perfectly happy with his services.
I think it is disrespectful to question him in this fashion and so publicly when he has given clear answers to the level that he is allowed to without breaking confidentiality.
He is not trying to scare anyone into getting his business, he is not hiding any information, he is telling you how it is. Just because many of you had an easy ride with your visa, it isn't like that for all of us.
I think if you all continue with questioning his motives as an agent or implying his answers are wrong, then why the hell should he post on here?
He gives alot of advice on this site for people and it wasn't that long ago a similar thread was about and both George and Alan stopped posting and many people lost out on the free advice they offered. Please dont let that happen again.
If you want to use an agent then it is your right to do so, if you dont think it necessary, then fine but it isn't fair to question the ethics of the reputable agents that have been established members of this site and are here to help.
I for one felt safer using an agent as my husband is from a high risk country and had it not been for our agent (George Lombard) and the way in which he presented our case (by far from straight forward), then I am sure we would have not been granted our visa.
Not only by his instruction, but several other things that I wont go in to, our case was complicated, he helped us every step of the way.
Now I have known Alan for a long time, have met him a couple of times and have also met lots of people that have used him for their visas and been perfectly happy with his services.
I think it is disrespectful to question him in this fashion and so publicly when he has given clear answers to the level that he is allowed to without breaking confidentiality.
He is not trying to scare anyone into getting his business, he is not hiding any information, he is telling you how it is. Just because many of you had an easy ride with your visa, it isn't like that for all of us.
I think if you all continue with questioning his motives as an agent or implying his answers are wrong, then why the hell should he post on here?
He gives alot of advice on this site for people and it wasn't that long ago a similar thread was about and both George and Alan stopped posting and many people lost out on the free advice they offered. Please dont let that happen again.
If you want to use an agent then it is your right to do so, if you dont think it necessary, then fine but it isn't fair to question the ethics of the reputable agents that have been established members of this site and are here to help.
Also, I don't believe this site should be held to ransom over the need to have agents here. There generate business from here and so they should be held accountable for the things they say.
Also, Alan decided to announce his end on here some time ago but was back in a week. He wants the business. I have no issue with any agent on here but I do think questioning their advice is important. Is this site for agents or applicants?