A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Aug 28th 2002, 12:50 pm
#46
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: UK for now
Posts: 22
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Also get a stubby holder -possibly the best invention since sliced bread!! I now have
quite a collection - but do *not* put them around my gear shift..
if I got a ute I could - but I haven't got the obligatory dog - and chain required
by law.. :-) Mike
[/QUOTE]
Mike, Great insight in your post, I have been surfing around trying to find helpful stuff about life in Sydney - Thanks. You mention the suburbs of Sydney in your original post. I'm moving to Sydney for three years in the next couple of months hopefully - Any advice on which suburbs to avoid / favour for a family of four Brits?
quite a collection - but do *not* put them around my gear shift..
if I got a ute I could - but I haven't got the obligatory dog - and chain required
by law.. :-) Mike
[/QUOTE]
Mike, Great insight in your post, I have been surfing around trying to find helpful stuff about life in Sydney - Thanks. You mention the suburbs of Sydney in your original post. I'm moving to Sydney for three years in the next couple of months hopefully - Any advice on which suburbs to avoid / favour for a family of four Brits?
Aug 28th 2002, 1:26 pm
#47
Just Joined
Joined: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 8
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
mike your account of OZ is very clear and well informed. Good luck with the migration plan.
nods
nods
Originally posted by Mike Rogers:
I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a degree,
well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like they
mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am going
to make a point of doing that to all English people!
2) weather – you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South* -whilst
v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring – WHEN THE SUN IS
OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but occasionally it can
be cold…up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth, Armidale) it gets v
cold. Trust me!
2a) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you can
catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK soccer
is a "lad's thing".
I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
3)Houses. – but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house on
a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses will
be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1 mile of 2
beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the back..all the
houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The rugby pitch is 50m
from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on trees suburbs look
clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how much you depend on the
sun because then everything looks quite grey.
4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't dream
of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
"with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is naive
and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
6) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people – poor
people – grumpy people
7) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs. I
have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
suburbs are bland – but at least you get a nice house etc.
8) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that the
Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most Abos are
actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that there is no PC
crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being honest.
FACTS
9. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected – and closer to the UK than
I expected –as well…the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
10..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
11.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 – 250,000.
12. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K – in Sydney it will be
70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k – in UK it is 20K?? Forget all this
3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money…so in real terms as
I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
13:1
1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper – eating out
is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 – pounds
5-7 CHEAPER
Cars:
are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW –
they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota…(as I
have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and Holden
(Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here – like in
US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine – in what is a slighter fatter Mondeo. Petrol
is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports cars compared to the
UK – 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
14. Some are grumpy BUT
15. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either middle
class – prissy, pretentious,or working class – boorish, oikish, grumpy or
irritating – in Australia there is exactly the same class system – but everyone
is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic – and they all share the
lifestyle.
From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold back
my confidence and cheery nature – especially in the PC work environment. I don't
consider myself working or middle class – I have always been on the level – confident
but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK people are
nice and friendly – but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an uncomfortableness
with strangers.
Case studies to illustrate my point:
a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
She was nice. She was friendly – but she had a reserve – a prissiness that was
restricting. I told her all the things I had done – and she was "OK", "I couldn't
do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" – "That's great"
– and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl behind a bar spoke in
stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi how u going etc???"
b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things. Whereas
I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they were, they
seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of English
backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife – a whole
list of things scary /different about Aus – whereas Aussies just stick to the good
things and gloss over problems.
c.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing English
people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about "nothing",
seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was very
noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me for an
Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without being
boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
the News readers in the UK - so pompous – and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes on
TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and grimy
scenes from South London -quite a shock.
Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u stay
here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find myself
talking in a slightly aus accent already – partly because it is easier ! Another
thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway- make your
life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like "OK mate.. –
how about if I do this …we do this…see how I/we go.." ,the other guy is making
encouraging noises the whole time..
Men and women – some observations…
Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes – the mateship thing. Being a
sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus –
no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything else
- yet the women had to do the brains – run the family/homestead/business. .
I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to the
hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
Mike Rogers
I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a degree,
well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like they
mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am going
to make a point of doing that to all English people!
2) weather – you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South* -whilst
v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring – WHEN THE SUN IS
OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but occasionally it can
be cold…up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth, Armidale) it gets v
cold. Trust me!
2a) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you can
catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK soccer
is a "lad's thing".
I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
3)Houses. – but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house on
a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses will
be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1 mile of 2
beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the back..all the
houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The rugby pitch is 50m
from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on trees suburbs look
clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how much you depend on the
sun because then everything looks quite grey.
4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't dream
of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
"with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is naive
and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
6) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people – poor
people – grumpy people
7) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs. I
have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
suburbs are bland – but at least you get a nice house etc.
8) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that the
Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most Abos are
actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that there is no PC
crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being honest.
FACTS
9. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected – and closer to the UK than
I expected –as well…the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
10..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
11.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 – 250,000.
12. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K – in Sydney it will be
70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k – in UK it is 20K?? Forget all this
3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money…so in real terms as
I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
13:1
1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper – eating out
is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 – pounds
5-7 CHEAPER
Cars:
are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW –
they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota…(as I
have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and Holden
(Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here – like in
US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine – in what is a slighter fatter Mondeo. Petrol
is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports cars compared to the
UK – 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
14. Some are grumpy BUT
15. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either middle
class – prissy, pretentious,or working class – boorish, oikish, grumpy or
irritating – in Australia there is exactly the same class system – but everyone
is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic – and they all share the
lifestyle.
From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold back
my confidence and cheery nature – especially in the PC work environment. I don't
consider myself working or middle class – I have always been on the level – confident
but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK people are
nice and friendly – but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an uncomfortableness
with strangers.
Case studies to illustrate my point:
a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
She was nice. She was friendly – but she had a reserve – a prissiness that was
restricting. I told her all the things I had done – and she was "OK", "I couldn't
do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" – "That's great"
– and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl behind a bar spoke in
stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi how u going etc???"
b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things. Whereas
I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they were, they
seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of English
backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife – a whole
list of things scary /different about Aus – whereas Aussies just stick to the good
things and gloss over problems.
c.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing English
people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about "nothing",
seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was very
noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me for an
Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without being
boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
the News readers in the UK - so pompous – and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes on
TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and grimy
scenes from South London -quite a shock.
Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u stay
here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find myself
talking in a slightly aus accent already – partly because it is easier ! Another
thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway- make your
life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like "OK mate.. –
how about if I do this …we do this…see how I/we go.." ,the other guy is making
encouraging noises the whole time..
Men and women – some observations…
Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes – the mateship thing. Being a
sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus –
no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything else
- yet the women had to do the brains – run the family/homestead/business. .
I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to the
hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
Mike Rogers
Aug 28th 2002, 2:49 pm
#48
Just Joined
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: South America
Posts: 29
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Thank you Mike and the rest that make this group so fantastic, useful, practical, and fun, too.Cheers,
Carlos.
Aug 28th 2002, 11:46 pm
#49
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Perth Arse end of the planet
Posts: 7,037
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by Chris:
"pommie bastard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Just a small point here , have you met an Australian who can see beyond some ones
> skin and race if you have they are not living here.
That's rich, coming from an idiot who's sole purpose here is to spew out
prejudiced hatred.
Chris
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
"pommie bastard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Just a small point here , have you met an Australian who can see beyond some ones
> skin and race if you have they are not living here.
That's rich, coming from an idiot who's sole purpose here is to spew out
prejudiced hatred.
Chris
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
God its nice to be liked are you Aussie or some dreg from UK .Anyway I think you are a well imformed good chap who if not in Australia should be .
Aug 29th 2002, 12:17 am
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
> Mike, Great insight in your post, I have been surfing around trying to find
> helpful stuff about life in Sydney - Thanks. You mention the suburbs of Sydney in
> your original post. I'm moving to Sydney for three years in the next couple of
> months hopefully - Any advice on which suburbs to avoid / favour for a family of
> four Brits?
It may well be that you can only afford the Western Suburbs - depends how much equity
u have in your home.
After the obvious posh suburbs,eg. the North Shore (Mosman, Manly), Eastern Beaches,
Balmain, Inner West etc the Northern Suburbs are the nicest. The areas around
Eastwood, Ryde are v suburban, quite nice, and quite close to city for commuting.
Ones further north like Hornsby, etc are probably cheaper.
The satellite suburbs of Liverpool, Campeltown out west would be quite grim I imagine
they used to be towns before the sprawl swallowed them up.
The Parramatta sprawl is very busy but I have heard that lots of younger people are
moving there..
There is a huge road running from CBD to Western Suburbs called Victoria St - it gets
blocked most rush hrs. Can't comment on the prices here .. Avoid areas like Bankstown
- effectively quite scummy. I was doing my pilots license at the airport there and
the main area is a dump.
I would also consider Central Coast - 90mins by train from CBD - most commuters in UK
do this anyway - as the crow flies not v far, but the inland waterways make the line
and Mway go around the long way..there's a fast ship service being planned. - and
house prices are much more affordable eg. Gosford, Woy Woy, Tascot, Wyong. Beach
towns close by are going through the roof though..
Drop me a mail if u have any further qs.
Mike
> helpful stuff about life in Sydney - Thanks. You mention the suburbs of Sydney in
> your original post. I'm moving to Sydney for three years in the next couple of
> months hopefully - Any advice on which suburbs to avoid / favour for a family of
> four Brits?
It may well be that you can only afford the Western Suburbs - depends how much equity
u have in your home.
After the obvious posh suburbs,eg. the North Shore (Mosman, Manly), Eastern Beaches,
Balmain, Inner West etc the Northern Suburbs are the nicest. The areas around
Eastwood, Ryde are v suburban, quite nice, and quite close to city for commuting.
Ones further north like Hornsby, etc are probably cheaper.
The satellite suburbs of Liverpool, Campeltown out west would be quite grim I imagine
they used to be towns before the sprawl swallowed them up.
The Parramatta sprawl is very busy but I have heard that lots of younger people are
moving there..
There is a huge road running from CBD to Western Suburbs called Victoria St - it gets
blocked most rush hrs. Can't comment on the prices here .. Avoid areas like Bankstown
- effectively quite scummy. I was doing my pilots license at the airport there and
the main area is a dump.
I would also consider Central Coast - 90mins by train from CBD - most commuters in UK
do this anyway - as the crow flies not v far, but the inland waterways make the line
and Mway go around the long way..there's a fast ship service being planned. - and
house prices are much more affordable eg. Gosford, Woy Woy, Tascot, Wyong. Beach
towns close by are going through the roof though..
Drop me a mail if u have any further qs.
Mike
Sep 7th 2002, 10:51 am
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 296
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by Rob:
Thanks for that Mike. Very interesting.
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
good luck with that. Sooner or later some nutter will take offense and ask "what the
f*** are you smiling at ?".
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
Could that just be a tourist thing ?. I've noticed that most people (wherever they
come from) behave very differently when abroad. The locals are obviously going to be
more at ease with their familiar surroundings than a visitor would be.
Thanks for that Mike. Very interesting.
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
good luck with that. Sooner or later some nutter will take offense and ask "what the
f*** are you smiling at ?".
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
Could that just be a tourist thing ?. I've noticed that most people (wherever they
come from) behave very differently when abroad. The locals are obviously going to be
more at ease with their familiar surroundings than a visitor would be.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for that fantastic read, you`ve made me feel a whole lot better after all the negative posts on here, like someone else replied to your thread a lot depends on attitude and I firmly believe that.
Keep up the writing and good luck to you with your new life in Oz, we hope to be out there next year, fingers crossed.
Cheers Marlo
Nov 14th 2002, 5:18 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by SueandIan
Well said Mike, and thank you for sharing.
Sue
Well said Mike, and thank you for sharing.
Sue
Nov 14th 2002, 12:16 pm
#53
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Mornington, Melbourne
Posts: 419
Mike,
thanks again for your excellent posting. Can I make a suggestion?. Would you also mind making another comprehensive view like you have just made another 6 months down the line and maybe one a year after that too.
Would make great reading!.
cheers,
65kk
thanks again for your excellent posting. Can I make a suggestion?. Would you also mind making another comprehensive view like you have just made another 6 months down the line and maybe one a year after that too.
Would make great reading!.
cheers,
65kk
Nov 14th 2002, 5:54 pm
#54
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 875
Hong, there is some racism in Australia just as there is in every country you visit. I think the most important part of feeling like you belonging is to expand your social circle beyond your own native group. I think a lot of people have problems with immigrants because some make no effort to integrate into Australian society. Often they bring the problems from their homeland to their new place of residence and unfortunately the entire migrant group of that population are tarred with the same brush. I am talking about the Vietnamese bringing their triad groups to Sydney and their associated behaviour. If you try to live like an Australian in Australia rather than being Singaporean in Australia you will have a better time.
Re the Aborigines. I think most Australians are horrified the more and more they learn of what happened to these people, not too long ago. However, no amount of money or apologies are going to make it go away, nor will it change it. I think it is more important to focus on how they are treated today. I know if I see one walking down the street I don't look down on them. I wish something could be done to solve their problems, eg. alcohol, petrol-sniffing. Unfortunately I haven't heard of anything which is going to make it beter.
Re the Aborigines. I think most Australians are horrified the more and more they learn of what happened to these people, not too long ago. However, no amount of money or apologies are going to make it go away, nor will it change it. I think it is more important to focus on how they are treated today. I know if I see one walking down the street I don't look down on them. I wish something could be done to solve their problems, eg. alcohol, petrol-sniffing. Unfortunately I haven't heard of anything which is going to make it beter.
Nov 15th 2002, 2:07 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
HH, don't mean to hijack this thread but am wondering if you've
considered Canada as another option?
considered Canada as another option?
Nov 15th 2002, 12:12 pm
#56
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 53
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by pommie bastard
..someone said - France invaded England in 1066 - did/do *we* sue *them* for land
rights etc?
Mike
..someone said - France invaded England in 1066 - did/do *we* sue *them* for land
rights etc?
Mike
What a great idea but UK being the melting pot it is who can trace their family tree back before the Normans?
[/QUOTE] Why do the *****in English always lump the the rest of the UK in with them?
The only reason there would be any Normans in Scotland is because, like the native Australians, the redcoat bullyboys wiped out the local folk followed by the Highland clearances. As for it not being recent, it is still going on in the North of Ireland.
Nov 16th 2002, 11:43 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by shamer
What a great idea but UK being the melting pot it is who can trace their family tree back before the Normans?
What a great idea but UK being the melting pot it is who can trace their family tree back before the Normans?
Why do the *****in English always lump the the rest of the UK in with them?
The only reason there would be any Normans in Scotland is because, like the native Australians, the redcoat bullyboys wiped out the local folk followed by the Highland clearances. As for it not being recent, it is still going on in the North of Ireland. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
yes There is some truth in that remark.
Aborigines regard 26-1-1788 as an anniversary of their genocide. A genocide by the British Government.
It is the date of the arrival of the First Fleet into Sydney Harbour. There were no settlers on board. Instead there were convicts under military guard - 200 heavily armed British marines.
Sydney was not founded as a settlement. It was a prison town under military control.
The case of genocide rests on 3 issues
why was there a military invasion when Britain was not at war with Aboriginal Australia
why were criminals sent to civilise a native people
why was Aboriginal land ownership completely removed - terra nullius
Their is also the possibility/probability that the smallpox epidemic of 1789 was deliberate - from smallpox in the military medical stores. It is this which so devastated Sydney Aborigines.
Like Canada, NZ, USA, Australia has been working to correct indigenous issues over several decades - if you follow oz history texts then you will see a series of landmark events from work starting in the 1950s:
1967 referendum, 1970s land rights, ..............royal commissions.....ATSIC....mabo case. wik case, reconciliation, stolen children apologies (state and territory governments only) etc It is proving very difficult to combine this unravelling of the past with the modern issues of disadvantage and some of the worst issues are now self perpetuating. Generally we find that people from Canada, NZ, USA have some idea of the hurdles Australia is facing.
It is a more difficult process to explain to many Britons and many Australians would not try. Britain seems to have done little to look at the effect the Empire had on the indigenous peoples of North America, Australasia and Africa. In particular, the role of the British military and their role in atrocities committed against these peoples. Australians tend, therefore not to discuss these difficult issues with Britons. Perception here is that modern Britain is in denial of its imperial past.
It should be emphasized, however that the settlers, when they arrived, also mistreated Aborigines, there were massacres, dispossession of land, discrimination, denial of citizenship, and postcolonial government policies of assimilation are now discredited.
About 65% of Aboriginal marriages are with non Aboriginal Australians, (90% in the Eastern cities), but no doubt despite this close relationship with mainstream Australia, you will hear some racism. I have an Aboriginal relative.
Jul 9th 2003, 5:14 pm
#58
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Dawesville, WA
Posts: 1,192
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by pommie bastard
Just a small point here , have you met an Australian who can see beyond some ones skin and race if you have they are not living here.
Just a small point here , have you met an Australian who can see beyond some ones skin and race if you have they are not living here.
I must say that i have not come across this level of racial discrimination when i have been working in Perth and before you say i don't live in Perth i know that, i am merely commenting on my experience. For example, here in the UK black people are very often followed around department stores by security regardless of how they are dressed, this is something i have not come across in perth, to be fair it goes both ways in many parts of Britain mixed race couples and white people can expect to be abused or attacked by blacks or asians again i did not feel this sense of racial tension in Perth(CBD, costal subs and river subs, beyond those areas i cannot comment on). I would not presume to comment on the native Australian black population i am not qualified to do so, i am talking about black Brits. I am not the sort of person that looks for racism but sometimes it is so obvious that you can't ignore it.
Just one last point, my husband always attends as many sporting events as possible when we are in Perth and he always gets into discussions about politics, amongst other things, over a beer or two with the locals, they are generally united in their dislike of Aborigonal people but always state that they don't have a problem with British or American blacks but cannot abide uptight poms and bludgers. The general concensus seems to be that they are prepared to give anyone a go who is prepared to pull their weight and make an effort to mix.
Finally, before you shoot me down i am not suggesting that all Ozzies are like the one's we have met merely that Australians that can see beyond colour do exist.
I always read your posts PB (this is the first time i have had the guts to comment) because they are always thought provoking, always offer an alternative view to the majority of expectations of life in Oz and usually get some sort of dialogue going. Your posts will certainly prepare us for the worst so hopefully we may be pleasently suprised.
Kind Regards
Ace
Jul 9th 2003, 6:10 pm
#59
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: South Perth
Posts: 307
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
nice one....good of you to take the time to inform the rest of us.
keep them coming...I am indian origin but was born in kenya and have lived in the UK for about 13 years and am a Pharmacist. Since I started the application to migrate i have had people worried that I might not get the visa because of the colour of my skin....your views would be greatly appreciated...( am nearly at the end of application - am waiting for visa with no probs so far )
keep them coming...I am indian origin but was born in kenya and have lived in the UK for about 13 years and am a Pharmacist. Since I started the application to migrate i have had people worried that I might not get the visa because of the colour of my skin....your views would be greatly appreciated...( am nearly at the end of application - am waiting for visa with no probs so far )
Jul 9th 2003, 6:45 pm
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Eatons Hill, Brisbane
Posts: 2,289
great post
what a great post Mike, very informative,
thanks for sharing your views
we are hoping to go to Brisbane early next year, wish it was sooner especially after reading your post
regards
rach, mark and chanelle
thanks for sharing your views
we are hoping to go to Brisbane early next year, wish it was sooner especially after reading your post
regards
rach, mark and chanelle