A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Aug 24th 2002, 4:51 pm
#1
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A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a degree,
well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like they
mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am going
to make a point of doing that to all English people!
2) weather – you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South* -whilst
v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring – WHEN THE SUN IS
OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but occasionally it can
be cold…up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth, Armidale) it gets v
cold. Trust me!
2a) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you can
catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK soccer
is a "lad's thing".
I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
3)Houses. – but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house on
a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses will
be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1 mile of 2
beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the back..all the
houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The rugby pitch is 50m
from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on trees suburbs look
clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how much you depend on the
sun because then everything looks quite grey.
4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't dream
of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
"with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is naive
and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
6) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people – poor
people – grumpy people
7) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs. I
have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
suburbs are bland – but at least you get a nice house etc.
8) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that the
Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most Abos are
actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that there is no PC
crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being honest.
FACTS
9. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected – and closer to the UK than
I expected –as well…the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
10..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
11.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 – 250,000.
12. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K – in Sydney it will be
70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k – in UK it is 20K?? Forget all this
3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money…so in real terms as
I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
13:1
1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper – eating out
is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 – pounds
5-7 CHEAPER
Cars:
are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW –
they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota…(as I
have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and Holden
(Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here – like in
US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine – in what is a slighter fatter Mondeo. Petrol
is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports cars compared to the
UK – 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
14. Some are grumpy BUT
15. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either middle
class – prissy, pretentious,or working class – boorish, oikish, grumpy or
irritating – in Australia there is exactly the same class system – but everyone
is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic – and they all share the
lifestyle.
From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold back
my confidence and cheery nature – especially in the PC work environment. I don't
consider myself working or middle class – I have always been on the level – confident
but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK people are
nice and friendly – but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an uncomfortableness
with strangers.
Case studies to illustrate my point:
a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
She was nice. She was friendly – but she had a reserve – a prissiness that was
restricting. I told her all the things I had done – and she was "OK", "I couldn't
do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" – "That's great"
– and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl behind a bar spoke in
stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi how u going etc???"
b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things. Whereas
I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they were, they
seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of English
backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife – a whole
list of things scary /different about Aus – whereas Aussies just stick to the good
things and gloss over problems.
c.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing English
people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about "nothing",
seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was very
noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me for an
Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without being
boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
the News readers in the UK - so pompous – and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes on
TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and grimy
scenes from South London -quite a shock.
Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u stay
here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find myself
talking in a slightly aus accent already – partly because it is easier ! Another
thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway- make your
life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like "OK mate.. –
how about if I do this …we do this…see how I/we go.." ,the other guy is making
encouraging noises the whole time..
Men and women – some observations…
Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes – the mateship thing. Being a
sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus –
no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything else
- yet the women had to do the brains – run the family/homestead/business. .
I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to the
hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
Mike Rogers
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a degree,
well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like they
mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am going
to make a point of doing that to all English people!
2) weather – you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South* -whilst
v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring – WHEN THE SUN IS
OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but occasionally it can
be cold…up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth, Armidale) it gets v
cold. Trust me!
2a) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you can
catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK soccer
is a "lad's thing".
I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
3)Houses. – but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house on
a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses will
be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1 mile of 2
beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the back..all the
houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The rugby pitch is 50m
from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on trees suburbs look
clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how much you depend on the
sun because then everything looks quite grey.
4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't dream
of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
"with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is naive
and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
6) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people – poor
people – grumpy people
7) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs. I
have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
suburbs are bland – but at least you get a nice house etc.
8) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that the
Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most Abos are
actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that there is no PC
crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being honest.
FACTS
9. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected – and closer to the UK than
I expected –as well…the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
10..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
11.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 – 250,000.
12. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K – in Sydney it will be
70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k – in UK it is 20K?? Forget all this
3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money…so in real terms as
I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
13:1
1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper – eating out
is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 – pounds
5-7 CHEAPER
Cars:
are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW –
they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota…(as I
have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and Holden
(Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here – like in
US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine – in what is a slighter fatter Mondeo. Petrol
is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports cars compared to the
UK – 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
14. Some are grumpy BUT
15. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either middle
class – prissy, pretentious,or working class – boorish, oikish, grumpy or
irritating – in Australia there is exactly the same class system – but everyone
is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic – and they all share the
lifestyle.
From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold back
my confidence and cheery nature – especially in the PC work environment. I don't
consider myself working or middle class – I have always been on the level – confident
but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK people are
nice and friendly – but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an uncomfortableness
with strangers.
Case studies to illustrate my point:
a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
She was nice. She was friendly – but she had a reserve – a prissiness that was
restricting. I told her all the things I had done – and she was "OK", "I couldn't
do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" – "That's great"
– and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl behind a bar spoke in
stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi how u going etc???"
b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things. Whereas
I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they were, they
seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of English
backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife – a whole
list of things scary /different about Aus – whereas Aussies just stick to the good
things and gloss over problems.
c.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing English
people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about "nothing",
seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was very
noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me for an
Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without being
boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
the News readers in the UK - so pompous – and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes on
TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and grimy
scenes from South London -quite a shock.
Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u stay
here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find myself
talking in a slightly aus accent already – partly because it is easier ! Another
thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway- make your
life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like "OK mate.. –
how about if I do this …we do this…see how I/we go.." ,the other guy is making
encouraging noises the whole time..
Men and women – some observations…
Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes – the mateship thing. Being a
sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus –
no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything else
- yet the women had to do the brains – run the family/homestead/business. .
I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to the
hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
Mike Rogers
Aug 24th 2002, 5:31 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Thanks for that Mike. Very interesting.
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
good luck with that. Sooner or later some nutter will take offense and ask "what the
f*** are you smiling at ?".
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
Could that just be a tourist thing ?. I've noticed that most people (wherever they
come from) behave very differently when abroad. The locals are obviously going to be
more at ease with their familiar surroundings than a visitor would be.
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
good luck with that. Sooner or later some nutter will take offense and ask "what the
f*** are you smiling at ?".
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock – especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
Could that just be a tourist thing ?. I've noticed that most people (wherever they
come from) behave very differently when abroad. The locals are obviously going to be
more at ease with their familiar surroundings than a visitor would be.
Aug 24th 2002, 5:36 pm
#3
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 410
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Well said Mike, and thank you for sharing.
Sue
Sue
Aug 24th 2002, 8:38 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Well Mike, as I have said here on numerous occasions, it's all in the attitude, with
the right attitude you will be accepted immediately, with the wrong attitude you will
be putting up your own fences. Welcome to Oz
Rob Edwards
www.australianaustralia.com
the right attitude you will be accepted immediately, with the wrong attitude you will
be putting up your own fences. Welcome to Oz
Rob Edwards
www.australianaustralia.com
Aug 24th 2002, 9:14 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 90
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Thanks Mike for taking the time to put such honest and positive feedback on the forum, its always encouraging to hear,
Cheers, Carol.
Cheers, Carol.
Aug 24th 2002, 10:07 pm
#6
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 359
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
thanks
rday
rday
Aug 25th 2002, 2:05 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
"Mike Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
> I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
> I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
> have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
> houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
> on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
Thanks for this Mike, It's good for people to post their thoughts on this group.
Russell
--
Luck is when the paths of opportunity and preparation cross.
com...
> I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
> I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
> have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
> houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
> on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
Thanks for this Mike, It's good for people to post their thoughts on this group.
Russell
--
Luck is when the paths of opportunity and preparation cross.
Aug 25th 2002, 2:42 am
#8
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 66
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Mike,
Your sharing of experience is very personal and good. I would like to thank you so much for it. If I was in Australia, I'd buy you a beer or two for the time you put in. If you do have time, do write more about the cars (what Jap car has good prices, easy to get parts) and banks. Aussie banks are all horrendous, I hear.
Thanks again, mate.
Your sharing of experience is very personal and good. I would like to thank you so much for it. If I was in Australia, I'd buy you a beer or two for the time you put in. If you do have time, do write more about the cars (what Jap car has good prices, easy to get parts) and banks. Aussie banks are all horrendous, I hear.
Thanks again, mate.
Aug 25th 2002, 7:01 am
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Woodcroft, 25 kms south of Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 281
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by chana:
Mike,
Your sharing of experience is very personal and good. I would like to thank you so much for it. If I was in Australia, I'd buy you a beer or two for the time you put in. If you do have time, do write more about the cars (what Jap car has good prices, easy to get parts) and banks. Aussie banks are all horrendous, I hear.
Thanks again, mate.
Mike,
Your sharing of experience is very personal and good. I would like to thank you so much for it. If I was in Australia, I'd buy you a beer or two for the time you put in. If you do have time, do write more about the cars (what Jap car has good prices, easy to get parts) and banks. Aussie banks are all horrendous, I hear.
Thanks again, mate.
Re cars:- Most Aussies in fact drive Ford Falcons, Holden Commodores or Mitsubishi Magnas simply because they are produced in this country and therefore are made for Australian driving conditions, and parts are easily obtainable. They are also very reasonably priced, especially when you consider the size of the engines in these cars. If I were buying any car new here it would be a Commodore. Holden Commodores are built in Adelaide and have a very good reputation for reliability. Mitsi Magnas are also produced in Adelaide and are pretty good, but at the moment the current shape Ford Falcon is not too popular however Ford is bringing a new model out very soon.....they are built in Victoria. Of course a lot of Aussies would also have a 4WD if they could, especially if they intend going bush at any time.
Aug 25th 2002, 9:30 am
#10
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 150
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by Mike Rogers:
I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
Mike Rogers
I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
Mike Rogers
A big thank you. I believe many of us will appreciate your time and effort to post such an honest info. I bookmark this thread!
It really gives a good balance of info for us good or bad. And more importantly it makes us more ready to face the challenges in the new place.
I like the part where you can do your own business.
Regards,
Wil
Aug 25th 2002, 12:49 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Interesting and salient points. I think overall you are right in what you say. On
the west coast I found prices to be about the same as in the UK pound for pound (or
dollar for dollar), but the cars were similar (ie. my aussie girlfriend drives a
1200 cc car, which goes fine incidentally - she used to have an old gas guzzler but
dumped it). Personally I found Sydney to be quite similar to London. Nice to visit
but that is all. I think it is good that you have taken the time to put down your
comments Mike. Jez
"Mike Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
> I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
> I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
> have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
> houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
> on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
> A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a
> degree, well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
> What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
> 2) weather - you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South*
> -whilst v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring - WHEN
> THE SUN IS OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but
> occasionally it can be cold.up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth,
> Armidale) it gets v cold. Trust me!
> 2b) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
> games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you
> can catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
> Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
> moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
> follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK
> soccer is a "lad's thing".
> I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
> 3)Houses. - but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house
> on a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses
> will be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1
> mile of 2 beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the
> back..all the houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The
> rugby pitch is 50m from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on
> trees suburbs look clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how
> much you depend on the sun because then everything looks quite grey.
> 4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
> Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
> setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
> friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
> walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
> hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
> our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
> database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't
> dream of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
> 5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
> "with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is
> naive and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
> What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
> 1) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people - poor
> people - grumpy people
> 2) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs.
> I have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
> suburbs are bland - but at least you get a nice house etc.
> 3) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
> that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that
> the Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most
> Abos are actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that
> there is no PC crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being
> honest.
> FACTS
> 1. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected - and closer to the UK than
> I expected -as well.the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
> 2..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
> 5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
> purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
> 3.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
> cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
> Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 - 250,000.
> 4. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K - in Sydney it will
> be 70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k - in UK it is 20K?? Forget all
> this 3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money.so in real
> terms as I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
> 2:1
> 1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper - eating out
> is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 - pounds
> 5-7 CHEAPER
> Cars:
> are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW -
> they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota.(as I
> have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and
> Holden (Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here -
> like in US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine - in what is a slighter fatter
> Mondeo. Petrol is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports
> cars compared to the UK - 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
> And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
> 1. Some are grumpy BUT
> 2. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
> meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
> contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either
> middle class - prissy, pretentious,or working class - boorish, oikish, grumpy or
> irritating - in Australia there is exactly the same class system - but everyone
> is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic - and they all share the
> lifestyle.
> From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
> Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold
> back my confidence and cheery nature - especially in the PC work environment. I
> don't consider myself working or middle class - I have always been on the level -
> confident but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK
> people are nice and friendly - but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an
> uncomfortableness with strangers.
> Case studies to illustrate my point:
> a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
> She was nice. She was friendly - but she had a reserve - a prissiness that was
> restricting. I told her all the things I had done - and she was "OK", "I
> couldn't do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" -
> "That's great" - and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl
> behind a bar spoke in stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi
> how u going etc???"
> b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things.
> Whereas I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they
> were, they seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of
> English backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife -
> a whole list of things scary /different about Aus - whereas Aussies just stick
> to the good things and gloss over problems.
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock - especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
> My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
> English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
> the News readers in the UK - so pompous - and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
> they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes
> on TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and
> grimy scenes from South London -quite a shock.
> Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u
> stay here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find
> myself talking in a slightly aus accent already - partly because it is easier !
> Another thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway-
> make your life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like
> "OK mate.. - how about if I do this .we do this.see how I/we go.." ,the other guy
> is making encouraging noises the whole time..
> Men and women - some observations.
> Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes - the mateship thing. Being a
> sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
> confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
> talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus
> - no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
> days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything
> else - yet the women had to do the brains - run the family/homestead/business. .
> I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to
> the hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
> Mike Rogers
the west coast I found prices to be about the same as in the UK pound for pound (or
dollar for dollar), but the cars were similar (ie. my aussie girlfriend drives a
1200 cc car, which goes fine incidentally - she used to have an old gas guzzler but
dumped it). Personally I found Sydney to be quite similar to London. Nice to visit
but that is all. I think it is good that you have taken the time to put down your
comments Mike. Jez
"Mike Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
> I have been in Australia for 6 months on a 1 year holiday visa.
> I have not been just backpacking; in fact as I have family (and now friends) here I
> have met real Aussies and have lived in a normal home, in Sydney and in friend's
> houses on farms and in small towns. I have a spent a fraction of my time with Brits
> on beaches so I can comment reliably on Aus from an insider's viewpoint.
> A bit about me : I am an IT consultant with a mixed-career background with a
> degree, well-rounded, sporty, well travelled and have lived in Europe and UK.
> What I like about Australia - SUBJECTIVE
> 1) people always say "good day! How are you going? How are YOU?" AND SMILE like
> they mean it..none of this defensive "Alriiiight..mate?". when I come back I am
> going to make a point of doing that to all English people!
> 2) weather - you all know about the summer. Australia's winter *in the South*
> -whilst v cold at night at times (short days) is like a british spring - WHEN
> THE SUN IS OUT - which is 75 pc of the time - it's 18 degrees or so..but
> occasionally it can be cold.up on the New England Plateau in NSW (eg. Tamworth,
> Armidale) it gets v cold. Trust me!
> 2b) Sport. No more being bored stupid with blokes in the pub talking about girl's
> games like soccer. It's either Rugby League known as "you can ***** me if you
> can catch me", Rugby Union ("rah rah" )or Aussie Rules ("Aerial Ping Pong").
> Also sports are for families- there *is* heckling and good humour- but none of that
> moronic chanting/abuse like at soccer in the UK. It's not quite so tribal. Women
> follow the footy and will discuss it in (impressive) detail: whereas in the UK
> soccer is a "lad's thing".
> I've played quite a bit.. The sun shines when you play ! Joy of joys!
> 3)Houses. - but house prices are also booming - but at least you get a whole house
> on a block of land. Most Aussies build on their block. So in 1 road, all houses
> will be completely different. I love Sydney suburbs..my cousin lives within 1
> mile of 2 beaches..and lives on a nice road with a forestry reserve out the
> back..all the houses in a street are different and have colourful roofs. The
> rugby pitch is 50m from the beach..paradise..because there are always leaves on
> trees suburbs look clean and nice. As soon as the sun goes in, you realise how
> much you depend on the sun because then everything looks quite grey.
> 4)Work. None of the stressy Politically Correct/rat race.
> Also it's easy - i'm doing a lot of consultancy work, but I am also thinking of
> setting up my own company..as I have a great idea! I only have to talk to some of
> friend's friends and I get referrals for work for small businesses - last week I
> walked fresh in to a business in North Sydney and was "doing business" inside the
> hour..how I got the referral - a mate of my cousin called me over to his office in
> our office complex and a man on the phone there - his friend - was wanting a
> database..I got on the phone and said I would see him that next day..I wouldn't
> dream of doing that in London- everyone is so big company orientated.
> 5) No major issues on TV. Apart from Asia and immigration, there's no complications
> "with Europe", massive political fights/ infighting and all the politics is
> naive and funny. They don't take themselves too seriously!
> What I don't like about Australia /potential problems
> 1) Any issues or problems same the world over. There are homeless people - poor
> people - grumpy people
> 2) If you haven't got a good job then you will have to live in the poorer suburbs.
> I have seen some of Sydney's West and it can be quite grim but further out the
> suburbs are bland - but at least you get a nice house etc.
> 3) The Abo problem . I was amazed at the negative slightly racist comments/line
> that Aussie take. But as I got to understand the issue, it is basically that
> the Abos are using the issue/dole money as an excuse to drink all day. Most
> Abos are actually quite friendly and some make the effort. I realise that
> there is no PC crap like in US/Europe so all Aussies are doing is being
> honest.
> FACTS
> 1. Australia is BOTH more like America than I expected - and closer to the UK than
> I expected -as well.the lifestyle is Californian(?) but the culture is UK.
> 2..I find the pace of life far slower than anywhere in the UK. In the rush hour at
> 5.30pm in Sydney it is busy but noone is bumping in to you, people walk with a
> purpose but don't race. Outside the rush hour there seems to be hardly anyone..
> 3.. FACT Sydney house prices ARE high but still less than the UK. Other cities
> cheaper but there is a boom just like in the UK.Central Coast, a few hrs north of
> Sydney (by train), you can pick up a 3 bed house for $230,000 - 250,000.
> 4. Cost of Living IS lower. In the UK in my IT job I earn 34K - in Sydney it will
> be 70-80K. Median wage/Average wage = 45-50k - in UK it is 20K?? Forget all
> this 3-1 business, that only applies if you are spending UK money.so in real
> terms as I am earning 2+ what I earnt in UK : I do a
> 2:1
> 1 schooner of beer $3 = pounds 1.50 CHEAPER All fast food is cheaper - eating out
> is far cheaper eg. Big Mac $3 pounds 1.50 cheaper Pizza $5 Steak $10-15 - pounds
> 5-7 CHEAPER
> Cars:
> are about the same, but avoid European like VW, and especially Merc, Audi, BMW -
> they cost a fortune as do service and parts. Stick to Mitsibishi and Toyota.(as I
> have been told). When I got here I was amazed at the number of Ford Falcon and
> Holden (Vauxhall) Commodores there are here. Cars have much bigger engines here -
> like in US, eg a Ford Falcon is a 4.0l engine - in what is a slighter fatter
> Mondeo. Petrol is 80-90c a litre. Half UK price at my salary. Hardly any sports
> cars compared to the UK - 90pc of Aussies just drive 4cy and 6 cy Jap cars.
> And finally the Aussies(culture, temperament)
> 1. Some are grumpy BUT
> 2. Most are friendly and the most down to earth, "on the level" people u will ever
> meet. They will strike up a conversation as if they have known you for years. By
> contrast, now, I find English people (sorry to bring up sociology) either
> middle class - prissy, pretentious,or working class - boorish, oikish, grumpy or
> irritating - in Australia there is exactly the same class system - but everyone
> is that bit more confident and fairly optimistic - and they all share the
> lifestyle.
> From the second I got in the country I fitted in. I noticed that I could talk like
> Aussies and be myself whereas in continental Europe and UK I always have to hold
> back my confidence and cheery nature - especially in the PC work environment. I
> don't consider myself working or middle class - I have always been on the level -
> confident but not loud, educated but not intellectual, etc. Don't get me wrong UK
> people are nice and friendly - but there is always a reserve, a tightness, an
> uncomfortableness with strangers.
> Case studies to illustrate my point:
> a. Eg. I met an english girl on train in Sydney going from North Sydney to Central.
> She was nice. She was friendly - but she had a reserve - a prissiness that was
> restricting. I told her all the things I had done - and she was "OK", "I
> couldn't do that" whereas all Aussie girls of all backgrounds are : "Wow" -
> "That's great" - and it's a 2 way conversation, not just 1 way. Anther girl
> behind a bar spoke in stilted sentences whereas her Aussie counterpart was "Hi
> how u going etc???"
> b. A group of young aussies together will talk for hrs about positive things.
> Whereas I noticed a lot of English backpackers talking about how negative they
> were, they seem to compete to be self-effacing: eg. In a bar I heard a group of
> English backpackers talking about how scared they were of spiders/the wildlife -
> a whole list of things scary /different about Aus - whereas Aussies just stick
> to the good things and gloss over problems.
> b.I got on a boat-ferry after being with Aussies for 3 months without seeing
> English people. A group of English people got on and they were talking about
> "nothing", seemed "worried" and being slightly negative and over-polite. It was
> very noticable. I found it quite a culture shock - especially when they took me
> for an Aussie! Then some Aussies got on and they were laughing and joking without
> being boorish, the boys were taking the piss out of the girls etc..
> My aunt mentioned this - and I see what she means: When I hear backpackers here, or
> English people on TV, they always have a tenseness in their voices. Just listen to
> the News readers in the UK - so pompous - and they SHOUT ALL THE TIME! Over here,
> they are more relaxed. I also find it funny looking at all the English programmes
> on TV showing 3 bed semi detached houses on housing estates with grey skies - and
> grimy scenes from South London -quite a shock.
> Basically what it comes down to is that Aussies are more relaxed and the more u
> stay here, (if you are the right person) the more you will become like them. I find
> myself talking in a slightly aus accent already - partly because it is easier !
> Another thing you will notice is that Aussies will always try to meet you halfway-
> make your life go easier - hear 2 people negotiating/planning , one will be like
> "OK mate.. - how about if I do this .we do this.see how I/we go.." ,the other guy
> is making encouraging noises the whole time..
> Men and women - some observations.
> Aussie blokes are confident but only with blokes - the mateship thing. Being a
> sportsman and ex-services I am in my element. In mixed groups women seem far more
> confident. In fact I always found women approaching me. Girls seem to do all the
> talking, leading. The boys listen and take the piss. This is what I love about Aus
> - no PC crap. My cousin's wife explains this confidence to come from the settlement
> days when the men worked on the land and were probably too tired to do anything
> else - yet the women had to do the brains - run the family/homestead/business. .
> I plan to migrate - partly because If i stayed in London I would be mortgaged to
> the hilt with no sun, no lifestyle, tense, worried, people and no decent footy!!!
> Mike Rogers
Aug 25th 2002, 1:23 pm
#12
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 603
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Thank you Mike.
I think you will find that people in here are pretty up to date with the pro's and con's but as humans we constantly seek reassurances. I for one can see where you are coming. I constantly ask myself am I really a Brit hahahaha We are so bloody stuffy and we are so uptight.. I think the people that are buggering off to Aus are of the variety that do seek more out of a country and the people. I for one cannot wait to be able to be me in public and not be looked down at. I am only out for fun, and leave the seriousness for when it is needed. My boy is, like me, very sociable, not needing to go out to have fun but try and have it as and when we can.
Did I just slur the UK? Hmmm sorry... just speaking from the heart as per and getting in trouble probably too *shrug*
Thank you again... I have printed this and given it to my son to read and digest, I think that it will put more of a smile on his face than he already has
Yvonne
20 days til we leave, 22 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE
I think you will find that people in here are pretty up to date with the pro's and con's but as humans we constantly seek reassurances. I for one can see where you are coming. I constantly ask myself am I really a Brit hahahaha We are so bloody stuffy and we are so uptight.. I think the people that are buggering off to Aus are of the variety that do seek more out of a country and the people. I for one cannot wait to be able to be me in public and not be looked down at. I am only out for fun, and leave the seriousness for when it is needed. My boy is, like me, very sociable, not needing to go out to have fun but try and have it as and when we can.
Did I just slur the UK? Hmmm sorry... just speaking from the heart as per and getting in trouble probably too *shrug*
Thank you again... I have printed this and given it to my son to read and digest, I think that it will put more of a smile on his face than he already has
Yvonne
20 days til we leave, 22 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE
Aug 25th 2002, 1:49 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Glad to see that most of you liked my ramblings. It seems noone ever really tells it
as it is..as u can see I am a bit of a sociologist/psychologist!! My point is that I
feel totally at home in Australia which confirms my feelings that there is something
missing in English/European culture..
BTW somone tried to account for my observations on English people as the way people
behave when they are abroad as tourists- well I am a tourist yet I fitted in from the
start - I guess I find it amusing that other English people I have met in Australia -
some of whom have been here for years - haven't changed - they are still 'English'..
It seems that all the failed UK migrants are these people - the ones who should have
stayed home..
I'll see if I can follow up with other observations about other facets of Aus life...
Mike
as it is..as u can see I am a bit of a sociologist/psychologist!! My point is that I
feel totally at home in Australia which confirms my feelings that there is something
missing in English/European culture..
BTW somone tried to account for my observations on English people as the way people
behave when they are abroad as tourists- well I am a tourist yet I fitted in from the
start - I guess I find it amusing that other English people I have met in Australia -
some of whom have been here for years - haven't changed - they are still 'English'..
It seems that all the failed UK migrants are these people - the ones who should have
stayed home..
I'll see if I can follow up with other observations about other facets of Aus life...
Mike
Aug 25th 2002, 2:21 pm
#14
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Flagstaff Hill Adelaide ex Manchester
Posts: 305
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Originally posted by Mike Rogers:
Glad to see that most of you liked my ramblings. It seems noone ever really tells it
as it is..as u can see I am a bit of a sociologist/psychologist!! My point is that I
feel totally at home in Australia which confirms my feelings that there is something
missing in English/European culture..
BTW somone tried to account for my observations on English people as the way people
behave when they are abroad as tourists- well I am a tourist yet I fitted in from the
start - I guess I find it amusing that other English people I have met in Australia -
some of whom have been here for years - haven't changed - they are still 'English'..
It seems that all the failed UK migrants are these people - the ones who should have
Well said Mike and good for you
I'll see if I can follow up with other observations about other facets of Aus life...
Mike
Glad to see that most of you liked my ramblings. It seems noone ever really tells it
as it is..as u can see I am a bit of a sociologist/psychologist!! My point is that I
feel totally at home in Australia which confirms my feelings that there is something
missing in English/European culture..
BTW somone tried to account for my observations on English people as the way people
behave when they are abroad as tourists- well I am a tourist yet I fitted in from the
start - I guess I find it amusing that other English people I have met in Australia -
some of whom have been here for years - haven't changed - they are still 'English'..
It seems that all the failed UK migrants are these people - the ones who should have
Well said Mike and good for you
I'll see if I can follow up with other observations about other facets of Aus life...
Mike
Well said Mike and good for you
Paul
Aug 25th 2002, 3:00 pm
#15
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Rockingham, WA
Posts: 917
Re: A summary/essay on life in Australia now I have been here 6 months
Hi Mike
Many thanks for your interesting and well thought out post. It is very refreshing to hear from someone who is actually enjoying their experiences in Australia.
Keep the posts coming!!
love sophia xx
Many thanks for your interesting and well thought out post. It is very refreshing to hear from someone who is actually enjoying their experiences in Australia.
Keep the posts coming!!
love sophia xx