British Expats

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-   Immigration, Visas & Citizenship (Australia) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/)
-   -   Scenario under new points system (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/scenario-under-new-points-system-705787/)

ukkiwi Feb 17th 2011 11:20 am

Scenario under new points system
 
Scenario under new points system and no points for RPL.

Age 40 - Senior IT Architect with no degree. 15+ years experience - gets 50 points. :confused:

Options.

1. Complete a degree - gets the 65 but could take longer than 4 years so then would still be short of points over 44...:blink:

2. Obtain 457.

3. Any other options?

Questions

Does converting the 457 to PR at some point mean going back through the points system as getting the 15 points required from Aussie work experince would take 5 years. Then would be 45 and loose age points!

Or is there another process for 457 to PR?

Can someone confirm my understanding?

Cheers:)

(ignore username as im not a kiwi!)

newjersey Feb 17th 2011 12:55 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by ukkiwi (Post 9182595)
Scenario under new points system and no points for RPL.

Age 40 - Senior IT Architect with no degree. 15+ years experience - gets 50 points. :confused:

Options.

1. Complete a degree - gets the 65 but could take longer than 4 years so then would still be short of points over 44...:blink:

2. Obtain 457.

3. Any other options?

Questions

Does converting the 457 to PR at some point mean going back through the points system as getting the 15 points required from Aussie work experince would take 5 years. Then would be 45 and loose age points!

Or is there another process for 457 to PR?

Can someone confirm my understanding?

Cheers:)

(ignore username as im not a kiwi!)

There is no process for 457 to skilled independent route, except a chance to claim Australian work experience points that you already know of. Afaik, you can get 5 extra points for being sponsored by the state, given you occupation is on the list. Also, how many points did you add into your calculation for English proficiency? You can go as high as 20 just there if you pass IELTS test. with score of all 8s.

Alternatively look into 121 visa. There may be an employer out there willing to sponsor. There is no points test there and you are within age limits where you do not have to jump through hoops just yet.

ukkiwi Feb 17th 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by newjersey (Post 9182790)
There is no process for 457 to skilled independent route, except a chance to claim Australian work experience points that you already know of. Afaik, you can get 5 extra points for being sponsored by the state, given you occupation is on the list. Also, how many points did you add into your calculation for English proficiency? You can go as high as 20 just there if you pass IELTS test. with score of all 8s.

Alternatively look into 121 visa. There may be an employer out there willing to sponsor. There is no points test there and you are within age limits where you do not have to jump through hoops just yet.


Thanks:)

Yes undestand the IELTS test - was just seeing what the top possible score would be.

121 looks interesting though and probably best option - finding a sponsor will be the challenge.

newjersey Feb 17th 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by ukkiwi (Post 9182842)
Thanks:)

Yes undestand the IELTS test - was just seeing what the top possible score would be.

121 looks interesting though and probably best option - finding a sponsor will be the challenge.

challenge it is, and not just visa wise, most employers want some face time before hiring. Some may offer a temp-to-permanent kind of contract in a way of risk sharing, where you could spend some time on a 457 as a middle ground. It offers less security to you, because 457 in itself does not lead to permanent residency (frankly, given your age and experience, leads nowhere) and employer may rethink their offer to apply for the 121 visa down the road. But it looks like you are out of options almost, so good luck with your endeavors.

Weebie Feb 18th 2011 6:53 am

Re: Scenario under new points system
 
Just a note for the OP it's very hard for professionals here without tertiary education. You'll struggle to get the promotion and possess a senior role unless you have it.

newjersey Feb 18th 2011 11:29 am

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 9184794)
Just a note for the OP it's very hard for professionals here without tertiary education. You'll struggle to get the promotion and possess a senior role unless you have it.

Respectfully disagree. IT business is an exception in that regard, at least for those who already have 10+ years of experience and held senior positions.

kittybee Feb 18th 2011 12:45 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by newjersey (Post 9183314)
challenge it is, and not just visa wise, most employers want some face time before hiring. Some may offer a temp-to-permanent kind of contract in a way of risk sharing, where you could spend some time on a 457 as a middle ground. It offers less security to you, because 457 in itself does not lead to permanent residency (frankly, given your age and experience, leads nowhere) and employer may rethink their offer to apply for the 121 visa down the road. But it looks like you are out of options almost, so good luck with your endeavors.

au contraire. the 457 can lead to residency. as for me, at the age of 42, you go on that visa, you spend 2 years and you can get an 856 off the back of it. during the 2 years if you successfully pass a final skills assessment you may have grounds for exceptional circumstances to apply early.

the new system now allows applications up to age 50 and whilst you would lose points on the gsm system which is points based, the 457 nor 856 visas are not points based.

most employers who have gained a valuable employee would not renege on the agreement...of course, there are those few that would. but i really dont think you should say it doesnt lead anywhere so definitely as that to someone that is clearly inexperienced in the area. its misleading and could put them off a perfectly sound pathway to residency!

after all, 40 now, hes got 4 years to make something work.

newjersey Feb 18th 2011 2:45 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by kittybee (Post 9185382)
au contraire. the 457 can lead to residency. as for me, at the age of 42, you go on that visa, you spend 2 years and you can get an 856 off the back of it. during the 2 years if you successfully pass a final skills assessment you may have grounds for exceptional circumstances to apply early.

the new system now allows applications up to age 50 and whilst you would lose points on the gsm system which is points based, the 457 nor 856 visas are not points based.

most employers who have gained a valuable employee would not renege on the agreement...of course, there are those few that would. but i really dont think you should say it doesnt lead anywhere so definitely as that to someone that is clearly inexperienced in the area. its misleading and could put them off a perfectly sound pathway to residency!

after all, 40 now, hes got 4 years to make something work.

Lets untangle this a bit. 856 visa is the onshore version of the Employer Nomination scheme, which requires you to hold an eligible visa, 457 being one of them, but does not say for how long. 2 year period is a common myth.

What is says on the immi web site, is that if you held your 457 visa for two years you can apply for the visa sans skills assessment. Nothing more nothing less. If you have your skills assessed before the 2years period is up, you do not need to wait. But that is not all unfortunately.

The most important bit - your visa application is in fact step two, and the step one is the employer nomination processed by DIAC (hence the visa name). No nomination means you can not proceed with your bit. so getting a PR on the back of it is not a guarantee unless you have it in writing from your employer.

So when I say the 457 leads nowhere, I mean that in itself it does lead nowhere, but in conjunction with a temp to perm contract it's a different story, with a clear cut plan and some security that a 40+ year old people have got to think of before flying off to another hemisphere. Cost of a mistake in that age is much greater than if you were in your 20s for example.

Re. being 50. 50 y.o. are eligible for ENS now. If you referred to skilled independent visa and it's new rules come July, it would be nearly impossible to qualify unless you had a PhD and a shedload of experience plus excellent English skills.

Hope this made it a bit clearer, all from the horses mouth so to speak, erm, DIACs website ENS section.

kittybee Feb 19th 2011 10:00 am

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by newjersey (Post 9185627)
Lets untangle this a bit. 856 visa is the onshore version of the Employer Nomination scheme, which requires you to hold an eligible visa, 457 being one of them, but does not say for how long. 2 year period is a common myth.

What is says on the immi web site, is that if you held your 457 visa for two years you can apply for the visa sans skills assessment. Nothing more nothing less. If you have your skills assessed before the 2years period is up, you do not need to wait. But that is not all unfortunately.

The most important bit - your visa application is in fact step two, and the step one is the employer nomination processed by DIAC (hence the visa name). No nomination means you can not proceed with your bit. so getting a PR on the back of it is not a guarantee unless you have it in writing from your employer.

So when I say the 457 leads nowhere, I mean that in itself it does lead nowhere, but in conjunction with a temp to perm contract it's a different story, with a clear cut plan and some security that a 40+ year old people have got to think of before flying off to another hemisphere. Cost of a mistake in that age is much greater than if you were in your 20s for example.

Re. being 50. 50 y.o. are eligible for ENS now. If you referred to skilled independent visa and it's new rules come July, it would be nearly impossible to qualify unless you had a PhD and a shedload of experience plus excellent English skills.

Hope this made it a bit clearer, all from the horses mouth so to speak, erm, DIACs website ENS section.

okay, perhaps i read it wrong.

in fact, im just about to go on to a 457 visa with my current employer. i hope to complete a successful skills assessment within the year rather than complete the 2 years on that visa. but i still need 3 years post qualification experience as well as the skills assessment dont i? which as an international student, i just could not physically achieve.

my previous comments sounded harsh now i reread them and i apologise. they are partially based on my employer's experience. theyre a seafood restaurant and have 3 large and successful sites now; and opening up this last venue and getting the proper calibre of staff has proved immensely difficult for them. theyve told me that this is rife in the industry and as a result most employers are keen to sponsor in the trade (cook or chef). the industry is in real strife as far as staffing is concerned and as a result are putting heaps of effort into sponsorship now as it also imposes some measure of continuity in staffing in a notoriously fluid industry.

theyre also already an approved sponsor, having a couple of 457 holders in one of the older venues and i believe that SBS is still valid.
i just hope that if i get the skills assessment ill be able to move forward. i have no intention of skipping out on my employer, theyve been great! but id like to be able to study again.

ukkiwi Feb 20th 2011 2:11 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 
Thanks all for the input -i've found out the australian arm of my company do sponsor though couldnt get them to commit whether that would be 121 or 457.

No transfers though so would still have to find a job and apply like everyone else.

newjersey Feb 21st 2011 2:32 pm

Re: Scenario under new points system
 

Originally Posted by kittybee (Post 9187261)
okay, perhaps i read it wrong.

in fact, im just about to go on to a 457 visa with my current employer. i hope to complete a successful skills assessment within the year rather than complete the 2 years on that visa. but i still need 3 years post qualification experience as well as the skills assessment dont i? which as an international student, i just could not physically achieve.

I would not know about cooks and chefs, sorry.



my previous comments sounded harsh now i reread them and i apologise. they are partially based on my employer's experience. theyre a seafood restaurant and have 3 large and successful sites now; and opening up this last venue and getting the proper calibre of staff has proved immensely difficult for them. theyve told me that this is rife in the industry and as a result most employers are keen to sponsor in the trade (cook or chef). the industry is in real strife as far as staffing is concerned and as a result are putting heaps of effort into sponsorship now as it also imposes some measure of continuity in staffing in a notoriously fluid industry.

I would also emphasize, since you already pointed that out as well, that the industry is very fluid, and employers may be reluctant to sponsor for permanent visas. Once you get it, you could leave them, so (playing devil's advocate here) it would be in their interest to marinate you (no pun intended) on a temp visa for as long as they could. Just remember one thing about the temp visas - your employer will be under no obligation to sponsor you for the permanent visa, unless you work something into your contract or otherwise.

It is unfortunate that you found yourself in a middle of a just a handful of occupations that have been abused so hard in the recent past, that there is practically no way to a DIY permanent residency at the moment.


theyre also already an approved sponsor, having a couple of 457 holders in one of the older venues and i believe that SBS is still valid.
i just hope that if i get the skills assessment ill be able to move forward. i have no intention of skipping out on my employer, theyve been great! but id like to be able to study again.
Just to make sure, the SBS, aka Standard Business Sponsorship, relates to the temporary visas only and in no way covers anything to do with the Employer Nomination Scheme.


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