louie

Just reread what I posted... I did of course mean "2 adults" not "2 agents".... doh!

Good luck. Let us know how she gets on....

sonlymewalter

If my daughter applies for her RRV, as this is discrationary it *could* be refused.

Can someone answer these questions please?

1. Is it possible to apply for a RRV and ask for the passport to be returned in case the RRV is refused or takes too long to go through in which case she can fly back to Aus on her perm visa which hasn't run out yet and apply for a RRV within Aus?

2. If the RRV requires evidence and this evidence is with the spouse visa info - can both departments share this information? [it would take too long to send the evidence from Aus to UK to Australia house] This info is already in Australia house lodged with the spouse visa.

The above questions are due to time sensitivity and not wanting to let the Perm visa run out before a RRV has been granted, or not as the case may be.

Any advice would be very much appreciated

JAJ

1. Submission of passport should not be mandatory.

2. They should share the evidence, but you should send copies. You did keep copies, didn't you?

sonlymewalter

The RRV application states her passport is required to be submitted with the perm visa label as evidence. Also, the form itself requires passport details which can only be supplied from the passport detail.

My original question was; can my daughter apply for RRV and ask for her visa to be returned immediately in the event the RRV isn't suplied [or is refused]before her visa expires and she needs to go back to Aus to get a RRV on shore?

Yes we did keep copies however the application form states they require evidence and given the fiasco so far, we thought they'd prefer to see the originals rather than copies so we have referred the RRV dept to the Spouse Visa dept who have all original docs and stat decs etc. We quoted Spouse Visa CO number etc. Should this suffice?

JAJ

Once again. Forms are not the law!

A valid application for an RRV on form 1085 does not require submission of the passport at the same time. Just fill out the form. Explain why passport is not included, if you like. If the visa is granted, passport can be submitted.


So enclose copies and note where the originals can be found.

sonlymewalter

What do you mean once again, it's the first I've heard of it

If the RRV application form asks for a passport to accompany the application then surely that's what I have to provide or else they decline the application

We know this. The reason the passport has to be included is
a) The application states a passport with perm visa label is required to be evidenced in order to apply for RRV
b) ergo - if no passport is provided - no RRV can be passed & supplied in passport
c) ergo if passport is provided for RRV to be given, then same passport cannot be used to book a flight to come to Aus before perm visa date runs out

Thanks.

>40

Reading form 1085 carefully, I believe this is not quite true. What the form does say is "make sure you have all the documents required", "if you provide photocopies of original documents, they must be certified as true copies by an authorised person", and "if you are granted an RRV ... a visa label will be placed in your passport or travel document as evidence that you hold the visa". Taken together, I see nothing in the application form preventing your daughter from applying with a certified copy of her passport rather than the original. When the visa is granted, she of course needs to provide her original passport in order to get the new visa label put in.

On your earlier questions:

As I see it, they would be best off with the following:

a) Yes - perhaps clarifying that they prefer for the visa to be decided as quickly as possible, rather than e.g. being delayed until after their 3 months holiday.
b) Spouse and kids tick "Visitor or temporary entrant" as they are *not*, on this arrival, coming to Australia to live (long term).

Good luck!

JAJ

Not necessarily. Firstly, if the application meets the criteria for a valid application (for that class of visa) set down in Schedule 1 of the Migration Regulations 1994, it must be considered and either granted or refused.

Secondly, the criteria governing grant and refusal are contained in Schedule 2 of the Regulations, for each subclass.

Unless there is a requirement either in Schedule 1, or a "time of application" requirement in Schedule 2, for a passport to be submitted, the visa application cannot be either returned or refused on that basis.

sonlymewalter

Thanks for your response over 40. Much appreciated. I guess what I meant was, due to time constraints on our part I felt we couldn't post the RRV application and then submit the passport after and as the passport was required anyway,then the view was to send it with the application. We wouldn't have time to send copies as we don't have time to evidence. It was all a matter of timing...

Good points. Thanks for your time for the good luck wishes. We are exhausted with all the running about and supplying multiple documents with a miriad of evidence and signed witness statements etc. Your help has been much appreciated.

sonlymewalter

And that's the point JAJ - the reasons for acceptance or refusal are subjective and as such are open to debate. This leaves offshore applicants like my daughter feeling very vulnerable. Indeed she may have been better returning to Aus before her visa expires, and getting an onshore visa application for her husband. Instead she chose to *do the right thing* and it has been one nightmare after another. London Australia house sure don't make it easy for offshore applicants.

Not sure what you mean by this JAJ sorry. I am knackered and pissed off and finding it hard to read between the lines. My head is a shed and this makes no sense to me. Maybe I'll come back and read it again sometime when I've had some sleep. Thanks anyway. Much appreciated

Pollyana

The way I understand it, both here and from previous threads, is that unless the Migration Regulations specifically state that the passport MUST be submitted at time of applciation, then they CANNOT refuse the application if you submit the certified copy, with the passport following when the visa is granted.
In the case of an RRV there is no entry in the Regulations to state that you MUST submit the passport at the same time, therefore they CANNOT refuse grant if you send it later.

Its just quicker and easier for them if you submit the passprot at the same time, because then they don't have to send a pre-grant letter asking for it. But it isn't essential for the grant.

Hope this makes sense? I can understand your brain being scrambled, so I've just tried to make it a little clearer

JAJ

They are not subjective and open to debate! The Regulations are clear.

In some situations, policy may add further detail - for example, if the Regulations give the Minister discretion, they may spell out how that discretion should be exercised.

But policy cannot override the Regulations. Just as the Regulations cannot override the Migration Act.

Act and Regulations can be downloaded from http://www.comlaw.gov.au but if you don't know what to look for, there's a good chance you will get lost in the detail.

sonlymewalter

Polly you are a star. Thank you

sonlymewalter

I disagree - or maybe I disagree as the regulations are not clear to me and are very subjective, to me.

For example: The rule is to obtain RRV you must show substantial ties to Australia. My daughter has her parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins all in Aus except one aunt who in a few years will live in Spain. I would say these are substantial ties, however since my daughter has not been to Aus since validating, *they* [meaning RRV people] could claim the ties are not that substantiative It's all too wishy washy and subjective to me

Also, my daughter has a job to go to with excellent pay. It's a perm position, ready and waiting for her. This also demonstrates a tie to Aus however the role is not so unique that an Aussie couldn't do it, thereofre again subjective in that *they* [meaning RRV people] could turn her down on the basis that the role is nothing special.

Without going into the ins and outs and ups and downs and where's and why-fors.....cos to be honest I'm too knackered and I've lost the will to live right now.....like I said, it's all too subjective and is open to interpretation and hole picking and this in itself alongside everything else is hard work. Like I said, it is all too subjective

Safin

Any reason why you can't pop to local solicitor and get passport certified quickly? they may charge but is only one copy!!!