RRV Refused - Review?

Old Apr 8th 2012, 10:26 pm
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Default RRV Refused - Review?

Hi all,

I am seeking advice regarding applying for a review of a refused RRV. Apparently I cannot apply for the review, it will have to be my father who lives in and is an Australian Citizen. I made the applcation for an RRV offshore, here in the UK and I believed it would be successful based on advice given to me when I visited the Department of Immigration during my last visit to Melbourne in Dec, in fact I had all the documents necessary (except one) and I was told that I would have been granted an RRV there and then if I hadn't been lacking that one document.

So based on that visit to the Department of Immigration and being assured that at that time I would have been granted my RRV I felt confident when I submitted my application here in the UK at Australia House in London. The very next day I recieved my notification that my application had been refused. I was shocked and extremely upset. I did not realise nor understand the difference between lodging an application offshore compared to whilst onshore (I am still non the wiser because when calling and speaking to the case worker who made the decison, she just kept quoting subcall this, that and the other and it was all so confusing to me).

Anyway before I waffle on any further, I guess what I'm asking is for any advice or indication as to how likely an application for review is going to be successful in revoking the decison. I will be (or rather my Father as he has to apply for the review) emplying the services of a migration agent. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Want2BinOz View Post
Hi all,

I am seeking advice regarding applying for a review of a refused RRV. Apparently I cannot apply for the review, it will have to be my father who lives in and is an Australian Citizen. I made the applcation for an RRV offshore, here in the UK and I believed it would be successful based on advice given to me when I visited the Department of Immigration during my last visit to Melbourne in Dec, in fact I had all the documents necessary (except one) and I was told that I would have been granted an RRV there and then if I hadn't been lacking that one document.

So based on that visit to the Department of Immigration and being assured that at that time I would have been granted my RRV I felt confident when I submitted my application here in the UK at Australia House in London. The very next day I recieved my notification that my application had been refused. I was shocked and extremely upset. I did not realise nor understand the difference between lodging an application offshore compared to whilst onshore (I am still non the wiser because when calling and speaking to the case worker who made the decison, she just kept quoting subcall this, that and the other and it was all so confusing to me).

Anyway before I waffle on any further, I guess what I'm asking is for any advice or indication as to how likely an application for review is going to be successful in revoking the decison. I will be (or rather my Father as he has to apply for the review) emplying the services of a migration agent. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Has your PR expired? How long did you live in Australia on your PR? What ties can you demonstrate to Australia in the way or job/house etc?
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 10:48 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Has your PR expired? How long did you live in Australia on your PR? What ties can you demonstrate to Australia in the way or job/house etc?
Thank you for your reply Pollyana, I arrived in Oz as a migrant in '89 with my parents & younger Bro and lived there permanently until aged 18 when I retunred to the UK on a 5 year RRV, in 2000 I was issued a 3 month RRV and since then each time I have returned to Oz, I have done so on a tourist visa believing that myPR had expired and therefore not having a chance of being issued an RRV.

My ties are immediate family members (parents, Brother, Grandparents) strong bond with friends I went to High school with. My compelling & compassionate
reasons for absence include an anxiety disorder preventing me from travel (I was able to provide evidence fo this from the pshychotherapist who councelled me for 4 years), getting married in '07 and then having 2 children. My passport shows the frequent visits to Australia.

I am desperate to return 'home' to Australia to be with my family and to raise my own family there.

I believe I was given incorrect information whilst at the department for immigration in Melbourne as I was told at the time that my status was that of a PR regardless of what visa I had and if it had expired, he added that once soemone is a PR through migration that it will last me my lifetime uhnless I voluntarily give it up. It is based on this information that I felt confident that my applicatoon for an RRV would be successful wether lodged in Oz or from the UK. I am just so hurt by the decision and hope that a migrant agent will take my case on believing it to be successful.
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 11:03 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Want2BinOz View Post
Thank you for your reply Pollyana, I arrived in Oz as a migrant in '89 with my parents & younger Bro and lived there permanently until aged 18 when I retunred to the UK on a 5 year RRV, in 2000 I was issued a 3 month RRV and since then each time I have returned to Oz, I have done so on a tourist visa believing that myPR had expired and therefore not having a chance of being issued an RRV.

My ties are immediate family members (parents, Brother, Grandparents) strong bond with friends I went to High school with. My compelling & compassionate
reasons for absence include an anxiety disorder preventing me from travel (I was able to provide evidence fo this from the pshychotherapist who councelled me for 4 years), getting married in '07 and then having 2 children. My passport shows the frequent visits to Australia.

I am desperate to return 'home' to Australia to be with my family and to raise my own family there.

I believe I was given incorrect information whilst at the department for immigration in Melbourne as I was told at the time that my status was that of a PR regardless of what visa I had and if it had expired, he added that once soemone is a PR through migration that it will last me my lifetime uhnless I voluntarily give it up. It is based on this information that I felt confident that my applicatoon for an RRV would be successful wether lodged in Oz or from the UK. I am just so hurt by the decision and hope that a migrant agent will take my case on believing it to be successful.
Guessing a bit, bit if you just spoke to counter staff at DIAC I think the info is suspect purely because your case is unusual and almost certainly would need looking into in details.
Posts on here by current/former agents do suggest that your PR visa would've been cancelled if you got a tourist visa - it would have been over-written and your PR status lost. I now myself for certain that the advice : once someone is a PR through migration that it will last me my lifetime uhnless I voluntarily give it up. "is wrong. Its broadly correct but there are exceptions, and those include applying for and being granted a new, temporary visa.

Definitely get a good registered agent, George Lombard, Alan Collet (Go Matilda) or Ian Harrop come to mind, and see what they advise.

Good luck
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 11:32 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Guessing a bit, bit if you just spoke to counter staff at DIAC I think the info is suspect purely because your case is unusual and almost certainly would need looking into in details.
Posts on here by current/former agents do suggest that your PR visa would've been cancelled if you got a tourist visa - it would have been over-written and your PR status lost. I now myself for certain that the advice : once someone is a PR through migration that it will last me my lifetime uhnless I voluntarily give it up. "is wrong. Its broadly correct but there are exceptions, and those include applying for and being granted a new, temporary visa.

Definitely get a good registered agent, George Lombard, Alan Collet (Go Matilda) or Ian Harrop come to mind, and see what they advise.

Good luck
Many thanks for your advice and suggested agent contacts, I will look into them and seek their initial advice and go from there. I know that my situation is unusual and the case worker who made the decision contradicted herself firstly saying that the decison on my application was black and white but then later in the telephone conversation stated that she had to read over my application a few times and ask a colleague for advice, so it couldn't have been that black and white of a decision. It's just completely thrown me when the case worker I spoke to face to face in Melbourne was willing to issue me with an RRV on the spot (If only I'd had that one piece of supporting evidence, darn it!). So dissappointing but hopefully a review may be successful.

Thanks again for your advice.
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

The people in immigration offices are notoriously bad at giving correct information. I have been told false things as have many people I know. Sorry you had to learn this the hard way. :-(
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 11:46 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

I think that what you were told in the immigration office was incorrect, counter staff are not known for their understanding of immigration law. So somebody got your hopes up but it sounds like it has been nearly 12 years since you last had a PR visa with a valid reentry date so it was always going to be very tricky no matter what you were told.

I am a bit confused about fear of travel being your compelling reason for being absent but them you say you have visited many times. That might be something to clear up if uou try again. I don't see what this has to do with your dad either or why he should appeal?

I think your case is tenuous to say the least, definitely needs one of the best agents out there, probably a job for George.

Good luck.
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Old Apr 8th 2012, 11:56 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
I think that what you were told in the immigration office was incorrect, counter staff are not known for their understanding of immigration law. So somebody got your hopes up but it sounds like it has been nearly 12 years since you last had a PR visa with a valid reentry date so it was always going to be very tricky no matter what you were told.

I am a bit confused about fear of travel being your compelling reason for being absent but them you say you have visited many times. That might be something to clear up if uou try again. I don't see what this has to do with your dad either or why he should appeal?

I think your case is tenuous to say the least, definitely needs one of the best agents out there, probably a job for George.

Good luck.
Hi Bermudashorts, I travelled numerous times between Australia and the UK between 1995 and 2000 but 2000 was unfortunately when a severe anxiety disorder hit me, preventing me from working, mixing socially, using public transport etc therefore it wasn't until 2007 when I was able to make my next visit to Australia and then have done so twice more. I believed that a letter from the Dr who treated me and helped me overcome my anxiety disorder would suffice (again on the basis of the advice provided in Melbourne). Althouhg it has been 12 years since my last RRV expired, it is my absence from Australia since 2005 that they want evidence of compelling & compassionate reasons.

The reason I mention my father applying for a review is because that it was is stated in the notification letter sent to me from the case worker, I do not understand the reason why I can not apply as I would be fully prepared to but for some reason (and it neglects to provide a reason) it states clearly that an application for review can not be made by myself but by an immediate family member, such as a parent, brother,cousin,aunt/uncle etc.

It is very unfortunate that the advice given to me whilst in Melbourne was incorrect and I will only go ahead with a review if an agent is confident of a successful outcome otherwise it seems I will have to revisit the possibility of applying for a different type of visa....or perhaps give up on my dream of returning to Australia.

Last edited by Want2BinOz; Apr 8th 2012 at 11:58 pm. Reason: to add further info
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 10:42 am
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

If this link works, it should give the outcome of reviews regarding the RRV subclass 155. If you read through them you will see people who have been out side Australia for nearly 20 years successfully gain a RRV. If you had submitted your application in Australia you would have had the right to an appeal. But because you didn't, i believe you are right in that you Father can as he is an Australian citizen and in Australia. I would definitely use an agent, especially one that deals with RRV's. I did look at various RRV's my self and was told i didn't have any close ties, no family ties over there etc. But spoke to an agent and my close ties were doing nearly 9 years of schooling in Australia. The hard part as you found out is the compelling reasons for absence...

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si...s%2Fcth%2FMRTA



P.S.. Did they refund the application fee or did you loose it as they you do

Last edited by deannos; Apr 9th 2012 at 11:00 am.
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 11:02 am
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by deannos View Post
If this link works, it should give the outcome of reviews regarding the RRV subclass 155. If you read through them you will see people who have been out side Australia for nearly 20 years successfully gain a RRV. If you had submitted your application in Australia you would have had the right to an appeal. But because you didn't, i believe you are right in that you Father can as he is an Australian citizen and in Australia. I would definitely use an agent, especially one that deals with RRV's. I did look at various RRV's my self and was told i didn't have any close ties, no family ties over there etc. But spoke to an agent and my close ties were doing nearly 9 years of schooling in Australia. The hard part as you found out is the compelling reasons for absence...

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si...s%2Fcth%2FMRTA



P.S.. Did they refund the application fee or did you loose it as they you do
I think you're missing a word or two there, but I get the gist. Why would they refund the fee?
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 11:33 am
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Tr1boy View Post
I think you're missing a word or two there, but I get the gist. Why would they refund the fee?
I deleted too many words

just wondering, as i'm sure it used to say a refund maybe issued for some circumstances. But just looked on line and it now states there are no refunds at all.

Last edited by deannos; Apr 9th 2012 at 12:45 pm.
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by deannos View Post
If this link works, it should give the outcome of reviews regarding the RRV subclass 155. If you read through them you will see people who have been out side Australia for nearly 20 years successfully gain a RRV. If you had submitted your application in Australia you would have had the right to an appeal. But because you didn't, i believe you are right in that you Father can as he is an Australian citizen and in Australia. I would definitely use an agent, especially one that deals with RRV's. I did look at various RRV's my self and was told i didn't have any close ties, no family ties over there etc. But spoke to an agent and my close ties were doing nearly 9 years of schooling in Australia. The hard part as you found out is the compelling reasons for absence...

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si...s%2Fcth%2FMRTA



P.S.. Did they refund the application fee or did you loose it as they you do
Thanks for the link, I will have a read through, I have been looking for examples of cases (whether successful or not) just to try to get some idea.

It was the case worker at the Melbourne Immigration Department who said the same as you that because people who have been out of Australia for some 20 or even 30 years, if they can gain an RRV then I shouldn't have a problem.

It makes me wonder how much of the decision to approve or refuse a visa application is not only based on the rules/regulations, subcaluses etc but also on the individual case worker looking at the application. I am not sure exactly what it is that I misunderstood but what frustrates me is that only a few months ago a case worker in Melbourne was all set to approve an RRV (had it not been for the one missing piece of evidence which was back in the UK) and now here in the UK it's a whole other outcome. I now understand this is why people employ migration agents for assistance with their applications, it is very complicated indeed.

Are you trying to migrate yourself deannos? Still considering an RRV or another visa type?
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 6:59 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Unfortunately the RRV option is the only one left for me. But its the " compelling reasons for absence" that is hard to prove and that will be accepted by the case workers. If you read through that link you will see it can be wide and varied. It looks like there is no specific definition that they go on and some previous cases are used for proof of this. I would also not qualify for a review unless I submit my application in Australia, so it could be a costly exercise just to get a no
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Want2BinOz View Post
Thanks for the link, I will have a read through, I have been looking for examples of cases (whether successful or not) just to try to get some idea.

It was the case worker at the Melbourne Immigration Department who said the same as you that because people who have been out of Australia for some 20 or even 30 years, if they can gain an RRV then I shouldn't have a problem.

It makes me wonder how much of the decision to approve or refuse a visa application is not only based on the rules/regulations, subcaluses etc but also on the individual case worker looking at the application. I am not sure exactly what it is that I misunderstood but what frustrates me is that only a few months ago a case worker in Melbourne was all set to approve an RRV (had it not been for the one missing piece of evidence which was back in the UK) and now here in the UK it's a whole other outcome. I now understand this is why people employ migration agents for assistance with their applications, it is very complicated indeed.

Are you trying to migrate yourself deannos? Still considering an RRV or another visa type?
Part of the problem for you though is that you have held tourist visas in the meantime instead of pursuing the RRV route earlier. Someone who just let their PR lapse and has never held another visa has not relinquished their PR status as such in favour of another visa.
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: RRV Refused - Review?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Part of the problem for you though is that you have held tourist visas in the meantime instead of pursuing the RRV route earlier. Someone who just let their PR lapse and has never held another visa has not relinquished their PR status as such in favour of another visa.
This is also another reason why i am reluctant to apply onshore. Haven't been back for over 30 years, but still hold PR status in a way but can't return with out a valid visa. Wish i had been older at the time to make my own decisions and not believe what i was told, but that is another story......
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