Jamie Smith

Interesting debate. I think the moderators would have no problem as they only police behavioural issues not content.

I guess the agent's logical reply would be:

Is a forum operator willingly facilitating the provision of immigration advice by people reasonably believed to be unregistered agents who are by self declaration reasonably believed to be living in Australia, ie is the operator/provider knowingly assisting in encouraging others to breach Australian law, perhaps aggravated by the forum operator making money by encouraging debate on the site thereby earning advertising payment for the operator.

Conspiracy to encourage others to break the law might be the charge. And I'm not sure of that is even possible.

Not sure if Australian or other country laws even extend to cover an online forum or overseas domiciled publisher, this is a real can of worms.

Banning the agent might invite her to ask Australian immigration authorities to investigate.

It's a messy issue, Paul and not one easily resolved. Not sure if I'd want to be the test case ....

Peace to all at Christmas.

Wendy

DIAC have been reading the boards for years....

Jamie Smith

True Wendy, but they usually only act when forced to, or asked to.

If the agent complained to MIA or MARA they may feel the need to formally request DIAC to investigate. DIAC can always say "too busy", or they will include it in submissions for the present Government review about regulating overseas agents, I just wouldn't want to run a business based on government inertia.

Wendy

I haven't met her, but is she so petty that she'd report the owners of the site because she was suspended for breaching forum rules?

I'm glad she's not my agent!

Dorothy

I really think that unless she has evidence of a specific poster claiming to be a registered agent when they in fact are not she has no reason to complain to anyone and her complaints would be taken with a grain of salt.

hereshoping

The key problem I guess is whether informal migration advice as given here can be classed as 'migration assistance'. Liana seemed to think it could and therefore by discussing our applications and telling people about our own experience we were therefore breaking the law. I doubt very much the australian government would share that view as long as none of us are getting paid for our 'advice' or claiming to be agents.

I do wonder why Liana doesn't have anything better to do.

ex_exile

I think her point was that you had to be a registered agent to give advice in Australia and this forum is going against the law. That interpretation was questioned by others.

Cant see DIAC wasting their time trying to sort out whos right and whos wrong.

Sammy T

Really can't see DIAC getting very involved here, they have 12,000 visa applications a day (according to phone message) so I kinda think they have other things to do.
I've been using this forum since about Feb this year and I've never seen anyone overstepping the mark with advice, as thats all it is - advice - and if you need to have clarification then a registered agent and the DIAC website should cover that.

Sam

The Bloke

The Migration Institute of Australia code of ethics
http://www.mia.org.au/miacoe.pdf
says that agents should act at all times in a manner which upholds and enhances the integrity and dignity of the profession.
Bearing in mind the fact that Liana J Allan has created at least two other names and apparently created a ficticious "client" to post on BE after she was banned temporaily for rule breaking, she doesn't really enhance the dignified image of the profession, does she? She has also had very public arguments with moderators/administrators over trivial matters. And by creating the other names she was then banned permanently for breaking more rules, which has lead to the current situation. If any other member deliberatly broke forum rules, the same penalties would apply. Other migration agents have corrected any inaccuracies in posts without heavy-handed tactics and threats.
Surprisingly, she has not to my knowledge, had any grievance with other expats sites' migration forums.
On a personal level, if I was a potential migrant looking to migrate anywhere, I would be very hesitant in using her firms' services after witnessing this seemingly unprofessional behaviour.

Wendy

Absolutely

I also think it seems a bit like blackmail.

'If you don't let me advertise shamelessly on your site, I'm gonna get you done - ner ner ner'

Very childish

chris and farideh

She's acting like spoil child, if I cant have my own way, I'm gone get you all into trouble.

paul30

admin were bang on for banning her. they way I've used the immigration section of this sight is more for support and to generally clarify something I thought I knew but was unsure about which I think most people on here do.
after all we are all adults and hopefully have some common sense which will tell us that the advise comes from peoples own experiences and isn't totally flawless unless one of the decent agents advises you. If I was looking for an agent to use and I came on here there are a few names I would use (george and allan etc) and one I would definately steer well clear of so really the only person she is truly hurting is herself.(Rant over)

BEVS

There is no debate. It's quite clear. Break the BE rules and you are sanctioned. Troll and you are banned. Use multiple IPs to keep trolling the site and you really get banned.


Que? The word is 'assistance' not 'advice'.

This is scaremongering & obliquely threatening. That's not an attractive trait in any agent. Quote here the exact part of legislation where it says that we may not exchange posts of a hopefully helpful nature with each other. Note that I write ' helpful' not ' assist' or 'advice'. Please factor into this, our right to freedom of speech.

No it isn't Jamie , unless you make it seem to be so.

The 'agent' was banned for breaking this sites rules on several levels. Rules 9, 14 and 15 spring to mind.
Any other poster would have been put down as a right nutcase for behaving in this irrational fashion. I would hope any DIAC officer looking in would feel a bit embarrassed by this show of bampotness [ my word - made it up ] by a registered agent.

Come on ! Really? How would it sit with DIAC when they read about this registered agents exploits? Bit mental eh? Especially when you read the MARA & MIA codes of conduct . A government legislation not being adhered to by one of their registered agents. Give us a break. All agents would probably lose their creditability when faced with any article or fuss about this persons, a registered agent, irrational behaviour here. Would you put your trust in someone that feels the need to act this way?
At least people that offer their help and support for free have no underlying agenda. I will include in this , those agents that offer their free time to help in many kind & caring ways, through the very nature of their posts.

Load of Botox. You can try and stir DIAC up. Of course you can. At the end of the day all you will do is harm the hopes of migrants who use sites like these worldwide to make contact for all sorts of reasons & tie up immigration officers when they have far better things to do - like helping to run the country.
For what? The ego of one BE member that was breaking the rules. No more and no less.

She did it wrong mate.

'Get some perspective'. [ Thank you Rushman for the quote]

The worlds migration is far greater than you agents, this site or any other information library or swap shop. You may also wish to remember that some government policies rely on a certain amount of migration movement & they will not mind too much how those migrants arrive , DIY or otherwise, as long as it is above board when it comes to their skills , the immigration criteria and settling.

You could've fooled me with the title of this thread mate

spartacus

She was without doubt a little 'loosely wrapped'.

She did herself, and also by association, the organisation which she worked for no favours whatsoever.

Jamie Smith

I don't think so. I've met Liana at MIA functions in Sydney, and she's not a small minded person, just extremely passionate unregistered agent operations in Australia, and as she has family and business to protect, probably rightly so.

How she expresses her opinion is what might be debated, the "why" is reasonable.