Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Old Oct 12th 2004, 12:13 pm
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Smile Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence if things go well.

I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an Australian. Get the drift?

Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my partner to get into Oz in the first instance.

Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down the visa application tunnel.
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Old Oct 12th 2004, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence if things go well.

I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an Australian. Get the drift?

Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my partner to get into Oz in the first instance.

Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down the visa application tunnel.
Whoa!, don't even think about bending the system!!
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Old Oct 12th 2004, 1:47 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence if things go well.

I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an Australian. Get the drift?

Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my partner to get into Oz in the first instance.

Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down the visa application tunnel.
Have you been together long enough to apply for a visa now? If you apply before you enter Australia and get your visa granted before you go then you are not goin to be breaking any rules when you enter the country.
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Old Oct 12th 2004, 1:57 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
There may also be issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an Australian. Get the drift?

If you enter Oz on an ETA or long-term tourist visa, be careful - if you fill in the landing card with anything other than a holiday/visiting friends, they will quite probably refuse you entry! Think about it, you enter on an ETA, designed for tourists, and then you tick the box for "I am permanently migrating....." At Immigration they read the cards, they don't just file them, and they read them BEFORE they let you in. If they think you are entering with the intention of staying permanently you will be on the next flight out.
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Old Oct 12th 2004, 2:07 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by Pollyana
If you enter Oz on an ETA or long-term tourist visa, be careful - if you fill in the landing card with anything other than a holiday/visiting friends, they will quite probably refuse you entry! Think about it, you enter on an ETA, designed for tourists, and then you tick the box for "I am permanently migrating....." At Immigration they read the cards, they don't just file them, and they read them BEFORE they let you in. If they think you are entering with the intention of staying permanently you will be on the next flight out.
Mmmm - would that be the case even if you had a 136 app in progress? (we're planning on travelling on an ETA then getting 136 evidenced in NZ once we get pre-grant)
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Old Oct 12th 2004, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by fraze1987
Mmmm - would that be the case even if you had a 136 app in progress? (we're planning on travelling on an ETA then getting 136 evidenced in NZ once we get pre-grant)
I think (though check it cos I'm no expert at all on skills stuff!) that in your case you need to tell DIMIA that you are going to Oz - I suggest you ask them how to fill in the landing card. I would guess there will be a note on the computer at Immigration when you enter, but certainly check it with them. They need to know that you will be in Oz, so they can arrange for the evidencing in NZ.
What I was refering to earlier is the fact of entering on an ETA, intending to apply for a spouse visa onshore (technically illegal to enter that way) and stating on the form that you intend to stay permanently.
This will ring big bells with Immigration as no-one on a 3 months tourist visa should be ticking "I intend to stay permanently"!
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 12:26 am
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by Pollyana
I think (though check it cos I'm no expert at all on skills stuff!) that in your case you need to tell DIMIA that you are going to Oz - I suggest you ask them how to fill in the landing card. I would guess there will be a note on the computer at Immigration when you enter, but certainly check it with them. They need to know that you will be in Oz, so they can arrange for the evidencing in NZ.
It's not usually a problem to come on an ETA if you have a 136 or other offshore application in the system, as they'll expect you to go offshore for visa grant - not lodge an onshore application which they often frown upon.

There are a range of other complications and risks in lodging an onshore application - many spouses of Australians learn about these the hard way each year.

What I was refering to earlier is the fact of entering on an ETA, intending to apply for a spouse visa onshore (technically illegal to enter that way) and stating on the form that you intend to stay permanently.
This will ring big bells with Immigration as no-one on a 3 months tourist visa should be ticking "I intend to stay permanently"!
The onshore application facilities are there for those *already* in Australia on some other status (eg student, working visa, retirement visa etc) who want to change status to a spouse visa.

Those resident offshore are expected to apply offshore for the proper visa before travelling to Australia to settle - usually at the DIMIA office responsible for their country of residence. In the case of a resident of the Netherlands, the appropriate location is normally the Australian Embassy in Berlin, http://www.australian-embassy.de

The appropriate visa may be a spouse visa (including one on de-facto grounds) or a fiance visa.

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Old Oct 13th 2004, 10:14 am
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

If this is any help to you, I applied for subclass 136 a few years ago and due to the points change realised that I would be placed in the pool. I then applied for a Working Holiday Maker visa whilst the application was still being processed and they were fine with it. They say that the most recent visa granted becomes the valid one.

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Old Oct 13th 2004, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an Australian. Get the drift?
Thanks for the many replies. More confusion ... therefore some clarification and more questions.

Our strategy is that, because ...

1. the application fee for a spouse based residence visa is $2,000+, and
2. applying for the visa offshore would mean a further wait of perhaps a year
and we don't want to wait another year

This is not an atempt to "bend" the system. It's an attempt to "use" the system to suit our requirements. "Understanding" the system is the point of my questions.

We will have been together for 12 months come February 2005, but have known each other since March 2003.

I understand the comments about completing the landing card ... that's why I'm asking the questions. You are telling me what she shouldn't do ... these are things we already have concern about. My question is "what should she do?". I'm asking, is there a different visa (other than the simple ETA) that she can use to enter Oz to overcome these alarm bells at the time of entry and at the later time of application for the residence visa.

A "136 app" in progress"! Can you explain this please if it is pertinent to our situation.

Check with DIMIA! Would this forum exist if it was as easy as that? I've been pursuing this for many months and get no response or different responses every time I ask ... even with direct phone enquiries with DIMIA in Australia and the embassy in Berlin. I'm looking for the wisdom of experience through this forum ... the way to do it, rather than all the rules.

Cheers ... Tony
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
A "136 app" in progress"! Can you explain this please if it is pertinent to our situation
- Not relevent in your situation.

You say you are not willing to spend another year apart - understandable, but are you really sure it would take that long? Applications to London are generally processed in a few weeks. I can't imagine that where you would apply (I think Dutch spouse visas go to Berlin) would be that much longer. There are a few people on this forum who have applied through Berlin - you could try doing a search to see how long their applications took.

As others have told you, it is illegal to enter Australia on a tourist visa with the intention of staying permanently. It is, however, perfectly acceptable to visit Australia, fall in love with the country & then change your mind and decide to stay - and thus apply within Australia.
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 2:50 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Hi Tony,
A 136 is a skills visa.

If your girlfriend/partner can get a working holiday visa, she can come in for a year - but she still MUST NOT say that she is entering permanently. When she arrives, she has to arrive with the intention of leaving again. She must say she is entering for only a year. If she decides in the meantime to marry you and apply for an onshore spouse visa, thats another matter, and that is how she will have to word her application - she arrived with the intention of only staying for X months, but circumstances changed AFTER arrival. There is also a longer term tourist visa, but they will want to know why she wants to come for more than 3 months. People do arrive, stay with friends, fall in love and get married; however, she can't say that when she arrives.

You mention going through Berlin - I believe Simone, and the Vegemite Kids got their spouse visas through Berlin, they could advise you as to the timeline, maybe send them a private message as they may not read your post.
A spouse visa onshore will still cost you money. And something to be aware of, if money is an issue - if she arrives on a tourist visa, and applies for a spouse visa onshore - she cannot work on a tourist visa (and most employers will check), when she applies for the spouse visa, she will be given a bridging visa which allows her to stay wile they make a decision. This almost always has the same conditions as the ORIGINAL visa - so she will not be able to work - and onshore spouse visas (I've heard) often take longer to process.

My own opinion - take it or leave it - wait until Feb 2005 when you can prove 12 months de facto, then apply offshore for a de facto visa. Or if you intend to marry,apply for a Prospective Spouse Visa, then she can come in as a fiance, and marry you, and stay. I know its hard being apart - I've done it, I came here on a Prospective Spouse visa. But its worth it in the end. If your relationship cannot stand a few months apart while the visa is processed - you have to ask whether it can survive in the long term. This may sound harsh, but I speak from experience.
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
Thanks for the many replies. More confusion ... therefore some clarification and more questions.

Our strategy is that, because ...

1. the application fee for a spouse based residence visa is $2,000+, and
2. applying for the visa offshore would mean a further wait of perhaps a year
and we don't want to wait another year

This is not an atempt to "bend" the system. It's an attempt to "use" the system to suit our requirements. "Understanding" the system is the point of my questions.

We will have been together for 12 months come February 2005, but have known each other since March 2003.

I understand the comments about completing the landing card ... that's why I'm asking the questions. You are telling me what she shouldn't do ... these are things we already have concern about. My question is "what should she do?". I'm asking, is there a different visa (other than the simple ETA) that she can use to enter Oz to overcome these alarm bells at the time of entry and at the later time of application for the residence visa.

A "136 app" in progress"! Can you explain this please if it is pertinent to our situation.

Check with DIMIA! Would this forum exist if it was as easy as that? I've been pursuing this for many months and get no response or different responses every time I ask ... even with direct phone enquiries with DIMIA in Australia and the embassy in Berlin. I'm looking for the wisdom of experience through this forum ... the way to do it, rather than all the rules.

Cheers ... Tony
the price for applying for a spouse visa is more onshore than offshore
$1245 offshore
$1845 onshore

Ignore all info on 136 as that is not relevent to yourselves.

I understand you dont want to wait another year but who does? unfortunately this is the downfall of having a partner who is not from the same country as you, it's a giant sized pain in the arse but rules are rules and they are there to stop people taking the pee, yep that makes it harder for us who are in genuine relationships but thats life.

MY honest opinion is that you would be mad to enter without your girlfriend getting her visa 1st.

Wait until February, it's only 4 months now, in the mean time start gathering your evidencing etc and be fully prepared to apply as soon as your 12 months is up, if the timescales are as they were when I applied 6 months ago then you should be able to up and leave only a few weeks after applying (obviously this cannot be guaranteed)

You are looking at the way to do it rather than the rules but following the rules is the way to do it, there are many many many people on this forum who had to spend long periods of time apart from there respective partners to get there visa, If there was another way they would have done it.

I entered Australia for a holiday on a working holiday visa with my australian husband, we had no intention of staying. we were pulled up by immigration and taken to a little room and interviewed, Because I was being honest I had all the proof I needed to prove I was goin home and did not intend on staying I was allowed in, I'm not goin to say what that proof was as I dont want to help people cheat the system, all that does is put the prices up for everyone.
After our holidaywe came home to the UK and we applied for our visa in the correct way. The point of telling you this is that I am living proof that they can and do stop you on entry into Australia, if you are not being honest they will chuck your girlfriend out, I wouldn't like her chances of getting a visa after that.

Sorry its not good news
Good luck


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Old Oct 13th 2004, 9:43 pm
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Its a pain being apart, as you say JD, and what people forget is that its the ones who cheat the system that cause the rules to be made strciter for the rest of us........
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Permanent Residence Tricks and Tips

Originally Posted by tonibwater
Check with DIMIA! Would this forum exist if it was as easy as that? I've been pursuing this for many months and get no response or different responses every time I ask ... even with direct phone enquiries with DIMIA in Australia and the embassy in Berlin. I'm looking for the wisdom of experience through this forum ... the way to do it, rather than all the rules.

Cheers ... Tony

(Unfortunately) the way to do it is with 'all the rules'. The nature of your title suggests you are looking for an easier way (which as JD & Pollyana have said doesnt exist) There are lots wise & experienced people on this forum who can help you, but it'll have to be done in accordance with ALL rules and regs (just like the rest of us!!)
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Old Oct 13th 2004, 10:28 pm
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:43:54 +0000, Pollyana
<[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:

if the timescales are as they were when I
    >> applied 6 months ago then you should be able to up and leave only a
    >> few weeks after applying (obviously this cannot be guaranteed)

These timescales vary from country to country. My partner (Prospective
Spouse) and I did not realise how much faster it was for Brits. We
though tit would be the same for us. He returned to the US to apply
offshore. With the benefit of hindsight, it would have saved as much
angst and money if we had married and applied onshore during his last
visit.
So far I have made a recent trip to the US and if he does not have a
visa by Christmas I will be on the plane again.
Meryl
 

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