Pbs

Nick wrote:
    > I wonder how this stacks against NZ foundig agreement between
    > the Queen and Maori.

FLAME ON

I wish you and *southerner* would post your replies internet news
style below each other with your points made in the others
text. The way you do it is like reading reverse polish notation!
http://www.hpmuseum.org/rpn.htm

Please use [snip] to cut out verbose parts of another
postings which are not relevent to the answer you are giving.

FLAME OFF

    >
    > I understand this exactly undermines Maori right for unimpeded
    > enjoyment of their land and beach ('fisheries').


Here is part of an editorial from a mainstream NZ newspaper published
this week:

Editorial: Beaches must by law stay open to us all (13.08.2003)
[snip]
    : Virtually all New Zealanders regard access to the beach as their
    : birthright. The idea of enclosing even part of a beach for private
    : use, as can be observed in some resorts of Europe, is anathema here.
    : That is the reason National was quick to inveigh against Maori
    : customary claims and the Government has been insisting that public
    : recreational rights will be preserved. Indeed, the Maori claimants of
    : customary ownership have stated they are not seeking to exclude the
    : public from ordinary enjoyment of the foreshore and seabed.
[snip]
    : But if recreational access is to be enshrined everywhere, as it should
    : be, it will present some difficulties for private property adjoining
    : the sea and waterways.
[snip]
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...portID=1162603

[snip]

Pbs

zephyr wrote:
    > It’s very sensible of those nasty Danes not to welcome all the
    > Third World and Eastern European Migrants who would like to go there.
In 1945 they had 200K East Prussian refugees who were not welcome.
http://www.um.dk/english/danmark/dan.../kap6/6-15.asp

Also in 1945 the Russians were looking to visit. It was only thanks to
the British that they did not get customs clearance.
http://www.channel4.com/history/micr.../lastdays.html

Grumble

Perhaps you should change your log in to 'kkk'?
"ppp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Wyg%[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Once it becomes a political issue, any chance of having a balanced
    > > debate about things seems to go.
    > It only becomes a political issue when naive, Pc idiots throw open the
    > floodgates and let the third world pour in.

Axel Van Kampen

"sashimi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > As yes I do find it sad that those "nasty Danes" your words not mine,
    > have become so xenophobic and inward-looking. Denmark has at the most a
    > piddly 5% foreign population and if a country thinks they cannot manage
    > that, that it will erode it's own cultural heritage then it's a sad
    > country which obviously does not hold much belief in the staying power
    > of this culture.

I guess they have learnt from the mistakes of other countries who have
allowed migrants to imposed their native culture in the new country.

Pbs

Axel Van Kampen wrote:
    > "sashimi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>As yes I do find it sad that those "nasty Danes" your words not mine,
    >>have become so xenophobic and inward-looking. Denmark has at the most a
[snip]
    > I guess they have learnt from the mistakes of other countries who have
    > allowed migrants to imposed their native culture in the new country.
and then steal the all the bicycles!

http://www.ihpva.org/pipermail/hpv/2...il/014847.html

southerner

Sorry PBS,

Not sure I know how to use any "SNIP" function. I can reply to a whole post, and to a cutdown version of a post, but not to multiple selected bits. Perhaps this Snip function is what I need.

Where can I find out more?

Zephyr

Folks,
When I wrote "those nasty Danes" it was obviously in an ironic manner,
in that anyone who questions unrestricted immigration is often
characterised as "nasty" or some other insult by the PC crew. I
already note that posters in this thread have already characterised an
entire nation as such, and condescendingly said that the Danes are
"inward looking", guilty of "ugly" thoughts. It'd be nice if people
could air their views on this forum without being called "nazi-boy"
and such like.

The Danes have a sovereign right to decide who can enter their country
(until the EU decides otherwise, but that's another story). As usual
those who are pro-uncontrolled immigration don't recognise the right
of a nation to make those decisions. Any attempt to limit immigration
is opposed instantly with the worn old insults of "racist" and
"xenophobe".

It's also usually said that it's an "extreme right minority" who
insist on immigration controls.

In a democracy, the majority usually manages to decide matters over
the long term, so we'll see what the majority of Danes do and don't
support over the coming years. At the moment, the majority of Danes
seem to support tight controls.

Z

sashimi

Why is it that if one has a different point of view from the one you seem to have to immigration one always gets labelled pc? It is soo easy to just dismiss other people's opinions by labelling them this that or the other. You then go on to talk about that if one opposes unrestricted immigration one is labelled nasty, called a racist or insulted in some other way. I for one do not remember insulting you or calling you anything. I said and I stand by it that I find the Danish attitude xenophobic and inward-looking.

There is no and never has been anything remotely resembling "unrestricted immigration" into Denmark. A large number of people on this forum seem to find there is in to the UK, but before one then randomly applies this attitude to other countries it might be useful to know what it's like in that country and not just find their tougher rules are great because you'd apparently want such rules in your own country. The Danes have gone from being a country that felt it had the capacity to take in and help the less fortunate, people in need of help for a longer or shorter period of time. The Danes used to continuously top the list of countries who gave the largest percentage of it's gnp in development aid something that is now also being cut back so the money can be spent in Denmark on a people that is amongst the richest in the world. And even as far as being poor or not well off, there is simply no comparison to the poverty that can be found in parts of the UK. And I know many Danes who are embarrassed by that specific development.

And no, I don't agree that a majority of Danes at present seem to support tighter controls. A quite large minority supports it which is scaring the mainstream politicians who think they have to cater to those attitudes leaving the others who might want different policies with precious little choice when going to vote. And a major reason why the right wing party, which in a Danish setting is extreme right wing whether you like it or not, has so much influence these days has to do with the parliamentary system in Denmark which is very different from the British one. There is at present a minority government in Denmark which needs the votes of the Danish People's Party to get a lot of issues through, especially the budget and in order to get the support of the DPP they have to give them something in exchange - and they want tougher rules and regulations on the immigration front.

Nomad

"southerner" wrote :
    > I can speak from the viewpoint of a kiwi (albeit have been out of
    > country a few years).
<snip of some good comments>

Racism is alive and well in NZ and is directed at people who are ethnically
different from the white NZ majority.
However, it tends to be a subtle type of racism, not overt.

Migrants tend to be well received, but this depends very much on where they
migrate to and what ethnic background they are. Auckland is far less
tolerant than the rest of the country but has also borne the brunt of most
Asian migration.

In some parts of the country cultural diversity is very much welcomed. I am
thinking, in particular, of Palmerston North - a small city of about 75,000
in the lower north island. They have a festival of cultures every year and
quite a few cultural activities. They also have a section in the public
library of foreign books in an attempt to cater for the 150 different
languages that are spoken in the city.

I know there are other regions throughout the country with a similar
attitude towards migrants.

That politician, Winston Peters, has bleated on about immigration for years.
I guess the evidence that most NZ'ers don't agree with him is seen in the
fact that his party has never got beyond being a minor player in the
political scene.

Lyn