Emmy & Phil

Hi all,

Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I was
told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I wouldn't
have any difficulty finding some work.

I have had discussions on this NG before, where many comments have been made
about getting jobs on aptitude, even if the skills are different, and taking
a little time to learn - I'd be more than happy doing that, if the companies
would even bother considering it.

I have been looking for a programming role for 2 months now, and have only
had 1 interview, and that came to nothing.
My background is pretty good - just finished working for IBM in the UK for 4
years, I'm a good programmer and have alot to offer - but nobody seems
interested.

The agencies are telling me there is nothing - I spoke to one today who said
they have people on their books who have been out of work all year(!), and
this is their quietest year for a long time. I am registered with loads of
people, who can't seem to help me.

So where are all these jobs?? The IT sites advertise all these jobs every
day, but they all seem to be re-posting jobs they have already advertised.

Sorry for the winging, but this is getting quite stressful.......we came
over here with the attitude "if it doesn't work out, it'll be a nice
holiday, and we can restart again in the UK". Sod that. We don't want to
go back there (jobless, homeless, and moenyless). We're fed up with
everyone assuming that because we come from the UK we have loads of these
"British Pounds", so we can buy everything we want. This isn't us - If we
fail, we will struggle to afford the flights home, let alone anything else.
We haven't moved here because our money will buy us a good house - we've
moved here because we want to start a life here, and we have risked
everything to try and do that. We don't want to fail.

Having a really bad day (

Argh...........
Phil

--
"There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots."
Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.

Bt

Emmy , Phil,

My advice, please get out while you can afford to get back home
The same happened to me in Australia, identical , programmer nothing came
along, I became very stressed , and eventually ended up in hospital

It is a bitter pill to take, I have been to NZ many times and love it dearly
, but you have to survive and live - returning home is inevitable in the
end, i just hope you havent burnt your bridges and dont end up homeless ,
penniless , or can find some work in NZ.

Old blighty maybe dark , gloomy miserable, but she'll keep you alive at
least.

please take care
Dan



"Emmy & Phil" wrote in message
news:P4or9.10465$b5.1211576@news0-
2.tsnz.net...
    > Hi all,
    > Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I
was
    > told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I
wouldn't
    > have any difficulty finding some work.
    > I have had discussions on this NG before, where many comments have been
made
    > about getting jobs on aptitude, even if the skills are different, and
taking
    > a little time to learn - I'd be more than happy doing that, if the
companies
    > would even bother considering it.
    > I have been looking for a programming role for 2 months now, and have only
    > had 1 interview, and that came to nothing.
    > My background is pretty good - just finished working for IBM in the UK for
4
    > years, I'm a good programmer and have alot to offer - but nobody seems
    > interested.
    > The agencies are telling me there is nothing - I spoke to one today who
said
    > they have people on their books who have been out of work all year(!), and
    > this is their quietest year for a long time. I am registered with loads
of
    > people, who can't seem to help me.
    > So where are all these jobs?? The IT sites advertise all these jobs every
    > day, but they all seem to be re-posting jobs they have already advertised.
    > Sorry for the winging, but this is getting quite stressful.......we came
    > over here with the attitude "if it doesn't work out, it'll be a nice
    > holiday, and we can restart again in the UK". Sod that. We don't want to
    > go back there (jobless, homeless, and moenyless). We're fed up with
    > everyone assuming that because we come from the UK we have loads of these
    > "British Pounds", so we can buy everything we want. This isn't us - If we
    > fail, we will struggle to afford the flights home, let alone anything
else.
    > We haven't moved here because our money will buy us a good house - we've
    > moved here because we want to start a life here, and we have risked
    > everything to try and do that. We don't want to fail.
    > Having a really bad day (
    > Argh...........
    > Phil
    > --
    > "There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive
Idiots."
    > Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.

Black Sheep

Please don't apologize for whinging, this is very useful info. Can really feel your pain! Now that NO-ONE can get points for the coveted PR without a job offer, we're all in pretty much the same boat I think in terms of having to risk it, and even the cost of plane tickets alone makes it a pretty scary loss if it doesn't work out (for some of us anyway - like you and us!). When you say you're stressed out, I can REALLY sympathize.

Oops, just saw the clock, had some (probably useless because they involve moving to California) ideas, but will have to leave them until tomorrow.

Meanwhile, hope someone else out there can shed some light on the IT situation and why the reality appears to be quite different from the rosy picture painted across the NZ job sites??

And how about some SUCCESS stories in the NZ job search arena to lift everyone's spirits up?! Now's a good time for you lurkers to step in and save the day...

Meanwhile, keep those chins up - positive attitudes are supposed to beget positive outcomes, really!

TA!

Ian Guy

My view would be the opposite. There are opportunities. As a programmer you
have more than programming skills. You can teach IT skills (both in schools,
privately and in uni's etc.), you have abilities and knowledge - DON'T
FORGET THAT!! Going it alone (e.g. selling yourself as a consultant) may
seem a big step, but it may be worth considering. Are you in CHC??
"bt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
m...
    > Emmy , Phil,
    > My advice, please get out while you can afford to get back home
    > The same happened to me in Australia, identical , programmer nothing came
    > along, I became very stressed , and eventually ended up in hospital
    > It is a bitter pill to take, I have been to NZ many times and love it
dearly
    > , but you have to survive and live - returning home is inevitable in the
    > end, i just hope you havent burnt your bridges and dont end up homeless ,
    > penniless , or can find some work in NZ.
    > Old blighty maybe dark , gloomy miserable, but she'll keep you alive at
    > least.
    > please take care
    > Dan
    > "Emmy & Phil" wrote in message
    > news:P4or9.10465$b5.1211576@new-
    > s02.tsnz.net    ...
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I
    > was
    > > told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I
    > wouldn't
    > > have any difficulty finding some work.
    > >
    > > I have had discussions on this NG before, where many comments have been
    > made
    > > about getting jobs on aptitude, even if the skills are different, and
    > taking
    > > a little time to learn - I'd be more than happy doing that, if the
    > companies
    > > would even bother considering it.
    > >
    > > I have been looking for a programming role for 2 months now, and have
only
    > > had 1 interview, and that came to nothing.
    > > My background is pretty good - just finished working for IBM in the UK
for
    > 4
    > > years, I'm a good programmer and have alot to offer - but nobody seems
    > > interested.
    > >
    > > The agencies are telling me there is nothing - I spoke to one today who
    > said
    > > they have people on their books who have been out of work all year(!),
and
    > > this is their quietest year for a long time. I am registered with loads
    > of
    > > people, who can't seem to help me.
    > >
    > > So where are all these jobs?? The IT sites advertise all these jobs
every
    > > day, but they all seem to be re-posting jobs they have already
advertised.
    > >
    > > Sorry for the winging, but this is getting quite stressful.......we came
    > > over here with the attitude "if it doesn't work out, it'll be a nice
    > > holiday, and we can restart again in the UK". Sod that. We don't want
to
    > > go back there (jobless, homeless, and moenyless). We're fed up with
    > > everyone assuming that because we come from the UK we have loads of
these
    > > "British Pounds", so we can buy everything we want. This isn't us - If
we
    > > fail, we will struggle to afford the flights home, let alone anything
    > else.
    > > We haven't moved here because our money will buy us a good house - we've
    > > moved here because we want to start a life here, and we have risked
    > > everything to try and do that. We don't want to fail.
    > >
    > > Having a really bad day (
    > >
    > > Argh...........
    > > Phil
    > >
    > > --
    > > "There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive
    > Idiots."
    > > Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
    > >
    > >

Emmy & Phil

Hi Ian,
For a start, I'm in Wellington now.
Yes, I agree - I know I have skills that would be useful.
The only really hurdle is this.....I need a job that matches my background
experience to complete my PR application. I am on a work deferral visa, and
the conditions of employment are a "full time permanent" position, which
prevents me from starting on my own, or contracting.
Once I have the PR, I can do what the hell I like!!!

Phil /

--
"There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots."
Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
"Ian Guy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
xtra.co.nz...
    > My view would be the opposite. There are opportunities. As a programmer
you
    > have more than programming skills. You can teach IT skills (both in
schools,
    > privately and in uni's etc.), you have abilities and knowledge - DON'T
    > FORGET THAT!! Going it alone (e.g. selling yourself as a consultant) may
    > seem a big step, but it may be worth considering. Are you in CHC??
    > "bt" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > om    ...
    > >
    > > Emmy , Phil,
    > >
    > > My advice, please get out while you can afford to get back home
    > > The same happened to me in Australia, identical , programmer nothing
came
    > > along, I became very stressed , and eventually ended up in hospital
    > >
    > > It is a bitter pill to take, I have been to NZ many times and love it
    > dearly
    > > , but you have to survive and live - returning home is inevitable in the
    > > end, i just hope you havent burnt your bridges and dont end up homeless
,
    > > penniless , or can find some work in NZ.
    > >
    > > Old blighty maybe dark , gloomy miserable, but she'll keep you alive at
    > > least.
    > >
    > > please take care
    > > Dan
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Emmy & Phil" wrote in message
    > > news:P4or9.10465$b5.1211576@n-
    > > ews02.tsnz.net    ...
    > > > Hi all,
    > > >
    > > > Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating,
I
    > > was
    > > > told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I
    > > wouldn't
    > > > have any difficulty finding some work.
    > > >
    > > > I have had discussions on this NG before, where many comments have
been
    > > made
    > > > about getting jobs on aptitude, even if the skills are different, and
    > > taking
    > > > a little time to learn - I'd be more than happy doing that, if the
    > > companies
    > > > would even bother considering it.
    > > >
    > > > I have been looking for a programming role for 2 months now, and have
    > only
    > > > had 1 interview, and that came to nothing.
    > > > My background is pretty good - just finished working for IBM in the UK
    > for
    > > 4
    > > > years, I'm a good programmer and have alot to offer - but nobody seems
    > > > interested.
    > > >
    > > > The agencies are telling me there is nothing - I spoke to one today
who
    > > said
    > > > they have people on their books who have been out of work all year(!),
    > and
    > > > this is their quietest year for a long time. I am registered with
loads
    > > of
    > > > people, who can't seem to help me.
    > > >
    > > > So where are all these jobs?? The IT sites advertise all these jobs
    > every
    > > > day, but they all seem to be re-posting jobs they have already
    > advertised.
    > > >
    > > > Sorry for the winging, but this is getting quite stressful.......we
came
    > > > over here with the attitude "if it doesn't work out, it'll be a nice
    > > > holiday, and we can restart again in the UK". Sod that. We don't
want
    > to
    > > > go back there (jobless, homeless, and moenyless). We're fed up with
    > > > everyone assuming that because we come from the UK we have loads of
    > these
    > > > "British Pounds", so we can buy everything we want. This isn't us -
If
    > we
    > > > fail, we will struggle to afford the flights home, let alone anything
    > > else.
    > > > We haven't moved here because our money will buy us a good house -
we've
    > > > moved here because we want to start a life here, and we have risked
    > > > everything to try and do that. We don't want to fail.
    > > >
    > > > Having a really bad day (
    > > >
    > > > Argh...........
    > > > Phil
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > "There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive
    > > Idiots."
    > > > Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >

Ppp

"Emmy & Phil" wrote in message
news:P4or9.10465$b5.1211576@news0-
2.tsnz.net...
    > Hi all,
    > Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I was
    > told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I wouldn't
    > have any difficulty finding some work.
    > I have had discussions on this NG before, where many comments have been made
    > about getting jobs on aptitude, even if the skills are different, and taking
    > a little time to learn - I'd be more than happy doing that, if the companies
    > would even bother considering it.
    > I have been looking for a programming role for 2 months now, and have only
    > had 1 interview, and that came to nothing.
    > My background is pretty good - just finished working for IBM in the UK for 4
    > years, I'm a good programmer and have alot to offer - but nobody seems
    > interested.
    > The agencies are telling me there is nothing - I spoke to one today who said
    > they have people on their books who have been out of work all year(!), and
    > this is their quietest year for a long time. I am registered with loads of
    > people, who can't seem to help me.
    > So where are all these jobs?? The IT sites advertise all these jobs every
    > day, but they all seem to be re-posting jobs they have already advertised.
    > Sorry for the winging, but this is getting quite stressful.......we came
    > over here with the attitude "if it doesn't work out, it'll be a nice
    > holiday, and we can restart again in the UK". Sod that. We don't want to
    > go back there (jobless, homeless, and moenyless). We're fed up with
    > everyone assuming that because we come from the UK we have loads of these
    > "British Pounds", so we can buy everything we want. This isn't us - If we
    > fail, we will struggle to afford the flights home, let alone anything else.
    > We haven't moved here because our money will buy us a good house - we've
    > moved here because we want to start a life here, and we have risked
    > everything to try and do that. We don't want to fail.
    > Having a really bad day (

NZ is overrun with 'IT specialists'. I suggest a career change. There's a real
shortage of truck drivers, an ideal job. Eighty hours a week @ $10/hour.

Ppp

"Ian Guy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
xtra.co.nz...
    > My view would be the opposite. There are opportunities. As a programmer you
    > have more than programming skills. You can teach IT skills (both in schools,
    > privately and in uni's etc.), you have abilities and knowledge - DON'T
    > FORGET THAT!! Going it alone (e.g. selling yourself as a consultant) may
    > seem a big step, but it may be worth considering. Are you in CHC??
Get off the grass mate. There are a million so called IT experts floating
arround, a huge oversupply. Why they're still letting in more is a mystery and
says a great deal about the incompetent way immigration is run in New Zealand.

Nicki

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:09:09 +1300, "Emmy & Phil"
wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I was
    >told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I wouldn't
    >have any difficulty finding some work.

Hello!

No advice I'm afraid, but I just wanted to wish the three of you the
best of luck. We've been following your story in the newsgroup - and
we're really hoping things turn out fine for you.

Love,
Nicki.
xxx

dotty

Sorry to hear your experience on the Job Front. You sere so so positive and almost on a 'high" when you first arrived in NZ.

I think what happens to all immigrants is the initial holiday type feel when you arrive, then after a few months the euphoria starts to wane as reality sets in and you get to face the real issues that people in the new country experience. As someone who is critisised for posting OZs downsides, I think this happens to most of us, but when in the immigration process we cannot imagine that, or that the new country has its failings.

There is hope tho, firstly stop looking for somebody to employ you, and start working out what you can do for yourself employment wise. It may be cleaning or truck driving but it will help you survive. Then work your way back up.

I think this is what many of those who live in these parts are trying to say. Its not all gloss and sunshine, real problems in NZ and OZ. Sadly the 'honeymoon' phase ends and real issues like jobs hit us like a sledghammer. After a while the silly expectations of the perfect life end and we just make the decision if the 'real' place we emigrated to is for us or not. If its for you you will work your way back up, but its just like starting again, we cannot expect the securities we had in our previous life in the UK.

I wish you the best of luck, and chin up.

Emmy & Phil

Thanks Nicki - it's nice to have some support !!
You'll all be the first to know if I get a job! Come to that, an interview
might be big news right now!

Phil
xxx

--
"There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots."
Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
"Nicki" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
om...
    > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:09:09 +1300, "Emmy & Phil"
    > wrote:
    > >Hi all,
    > >
    > >Just a quick winge about the IT market over here. Before emigrating, I
was
    > >told the market over here is quite good, and many people told me I
wouldn't
    > >have any difficulty finding some work.
    > >
    > >
    > Hello!
    > No advice I'm afraid, but I just wanted to wish the three of you the
    > best of luck. We've been following your story in the newsgroup - and
    > we're really hoping things turn out fine for you.
    > Love,
    > Nicki.
    > xxx

Watt Dabney

Hi Phil & Emmy,

As we are arriving in NZ in 3 weeks I have always looked forward to your posts. So sorry to hear of your frustrations in the job market, we feel for you big time.
I am currently looking at a copy of The Press 5/10/02 that we had sent over to us. Now my knowledge of the IT industry could be written on the back of a postage stamp in bold print so if i am way off the mark excuse my ignorance but I saw this job ad and wondered if it would be of any use. I know its in Christchurch but I thought you may be interested anyway at the moment.
software development opportunities at HP New Zealand.Seeking people with experience in one or more of the following,
Object oriented design & development in a microsoft enviroment
business Analysis
Microsoft development skills- VB6,ASP,SQL Server, NET
C++ programming skills
Centura
Testing


Carolyn Jackson
HP New Zealand
PO Box 25-155
Christchurch

[email protected]
Phone 03 962 5734

Closing date 19/10/02


Hope this helps if not just ignore me

Paula

Helle Hansen

    > For a start, I'm in Wellington now.
    > Yes, I agree - I know I have skills that would be useful.
    > The only really hurdle is this.....I need a job that matches my background
    > experience to complete my PR application. I am on a work deferral visa, and
    > the conditions of employment are a "full time permanent" position, which
    > prevents me from starting on my own, or contracting.
    > Once I have the PR, I can do what the hell I like!!!
    >Hi,

just a question. You write you're in Wellington, have you limited your
applications to the Wellington area? Is it the same all over NZ or
would you have a better chance somewhere else, maybe? I'm interested
because my husband would probably only find jobs in the Auckland area
as he's working in unix systems in a banking environment.

On a finishing note, I wish people like ppp would bugger off and leave
the rest of us to sharing info.

Helle

Black Sheep

Didn't realize you're in Wellington. Have you tried Christchurch or Dunedin at all, or anywhere else in NZ? And how are you going about your job search? How did you get the one interview you had for instance? Presumably you're aware that some potential employers like Universities, hospitals may not advertise positions widely.

I'm sure you're aware too that you've got to find a way to network - you've got to meet as many people as you can and you've got to let every person you meet know that you're looking for a programming job (having first made a favorable impression of course). Networking is supposedly the main way people get jobs in NZ (same as everywhere else). Puts you at a slight disadvantage, but a big effort can overcome this. You have to put yourself in the way of meeting people, day after day after day. Even just travelling around on weekends you can pick up a lot of information if you make the effort to talk to people. People KNOW people, you know?? And people generally like to help you if they can.

Seems you might have done well to attend this NZ job expo in London this weekend - I mean these companies must be somewhat serious about hiring Britons if they're going to the trouble and expense of showing up there. I don't know what firms are going to be there, can you look them up on the website given in the NZ Job Expo posting on this forum? Do you have any friends/relatives who can attend for you to ask questions/find out what jobs are going/note down potential employers, etc.?

Meant what I said before - a positive attitude is really important. Another weekend's coming up, so make the most of it!

TA

Emmy & Phil

Hi Helle,

No....haven't limited my applications at all.
I'm actually quite keen to head to the South Island if I get the chance.
I'd prefer not living in Auckland, but I'm not in the position to be picky
right now.

Cheers,
Phil

--
"There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots."
Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
"Helle Hansen" wrote in message
news:509617d8.0210170646-
[email protected]...
    > > For a start, I'm in Wellington now.
    > > Yes, I agree - I know I have skills that would be useful.
    > > The only really hurdle is this.....I need a job that matches my
background
    > > experience to complete my PR application. I am on a work deferral visa,
and
    > > the conditions of employment are a "full time permanent" position, which
    > > prevents me from starting on my own, or contracting.
    > > Once I have the PR, I can do what the hell I like!!!
    > >
    > >Hi,
    > just a question. You write you're in Wellington, have you limited your
    > applications to the Wellington area? Is it the same all over NZ or
    > would you have a better chance somewhere else, maybe? I'm interested
    > because my husband would probably only find jobs in the Auckland area
    > as he's working in unix systems in a banking environment.
    > On a finishing note, I wish people like ppp would bugger off and leave
    > the rest of us to sharing info.
    > Helle

Emmy & Phil

Hi Dotty,

As I said in a previous post, I HAVE to get a job in IT to get my residence.
I have no misconceptions about life here - reality has always been well and
truly planted in my head - and yes, we already think this is the place for
us. Getting that first job is the key, and I can go on from there, in
whatever capacity I can.

--
"There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots."
Please remove "NOSPAM" when emailing.
"dotty" wrote in message
news:446472.1034851113@britishexpats-
.com...
    > Sorry to hear your experience on the Job Front. You sere so so
    > positive and almost on a 'high" when you first arrived in NZ.
    > I think what happens to all immigrants is the initial holiday type feel
    > when you arrive, then after a few months the euphoria starts to wane as
    > reality sets in and you get to face the real issues that people in the
    > new country experience. As someone who is critisised for posting OZs
    > downsides, I think this happens to most of us, but when in the
    > immigration process we cannot imagine that, or that the new country has
    > its failings.
    > There is hope tho, firstly stop looking for somebody to employ you, and
    > start working out what you can do for yourself employment wise. It may
    > be cleaning or truck driving but it will help you survive. Then work
    > your way back up.
    > I think this is what many of those who live in these parts are trying to
    > say. Its not all gloss and sunshine, real problems in NZ and OZ. Sadly
    > the 'honeymoon' phase ends and real issues like jobs hit us like a
    > sledghammer. After a while the silly expectations of the perfect life
    > end and we just make the decision if the 'real' place we emigrated to is
    > for us or not. If its for you you will work your way back up, but its
    > just like starting again, we cannot expect the securities we had in our
    > previous life in the UK.
    > I wish you the best of luck, and chin up.
    > --