Paul Dubar

Here's a tale to warm the cockles of the hearts of those non-IT'ers out there waiting
for their VISA's (although I'm an IT'er and my visa still took 2 bloody years).

I arrived in Melbourne in October 2001. I originally wantd to move to Sydney, but
property there is so expensive it just didn't seem feasible, so I opted for
Melbourne.

Since arriving I have been offered just one job which, after verbally accepting, was
withdrawn 4 days later (another story). There are zero oracle dba contracts here. I
have many interviews with agencies, all to no avail - either the contract turns into
thin air, or there wasn't any funding for it. I am a Degree qualified Oracle
certified Oracle DBA with 5 years experience. Since I left school in the UK, the
longest I've been out of work in the UK is 2 weeks.

Oracle was listed on the Skills in Demand list when I applied for my VISA. DIMA
should be more specific and say they need Oracle Applications/Financials or
Developers because the reality here is that clients won't give you a second look if
you don't match their requirements exactly.

I have exhaused my funds and I am on my way back to the UK to find work (in spite of
all the problems the UK has). The irony is, Aussie newspapers claim the economy here
has bucked the worldwide downward trend - which is supported by the ASX hitting all
time highs - so if this is good, I shudder to see bad. People keep telling me things
will pick up in the new year - it's mid Feb, and there's no sign of that revival yet.

Be advised - the property market in Melbourne rocketed in 2001 - some areas, the
average price increased by $200K in a year, so the inner eastern suburbs of Melbourne
(where all the good schools are) now require significant incomes ($120K +) to be
affordable, and Melburnians send their children to independent secondary schools,
which also puts a strain on your income - in my short experience, the cost of living
here is higher than in the UK, so be warned, do your homework.

I haven't given up entirely, I can see the potential and I want it to work - but if I
can't get employment, there's no future here.

mxqth

Scarry!!!

colin.helen

Did you consider working in another occupation until your chossen job came up to tied you over - say seasonal shop work.

I ask because we will be taking limited money with us and it is our intention for one of us to find any job to bring the money in and the other to search for their career.

We are expecting it to take about two years to be in the house and job we want.

Welcome your comments

Helen and Colin

lmaynard

I work for Oracle in NZ and the problem here (and probably in Australia) is that they expect you to know and do everything. In the UK it's not like that. I came over here as a business consultant specialising in Oracle Applications and that was the first thing that I noticed. Have you tried Oracle Australia? there's a Global Support Centre there and they are always looking for OCP qualified staff.

Jacqui

Fortunately we have enough savings to tide us over for a while, hubby is half-expecting to be unemployed to start with, so we're going with the attitude that even if he can't find his ideal IT job, then providing he can get a job down the local supermarket stacking shelves, then so be it. I'm prepared to go back out to work too if need be, so I'm sure we'll survive. If he can't get a good IT job after 2 years of trying, that's when we'll have to give it a rethink.

lmaynard

Try to find a job before you go. I had my first interviews by phone and the final one by video conference that I instigated and set up. If you can set this up it show that you are resourceful!!

Joost Bergsma

Paul,

You used the word 'contract'. Does that mean a contract for a fixed period. in which
you will get an hourly (generaly high) rate, or does that include 'permanent' work as
well? Do these two different markets exists in Australia, and if so, what about the
availability of work in the 'permanent' market?

Joost

"Paul Dubar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Here's a tale to warm the cockles of the hearts of those non-IT'ers out there
    > waiting for their VISA's (although I'm an IT'er and my visa still
took
    > 2 bloody years).
    >
    > I arrived in Melbourne in October 2001. I originally wantd to move to Sydney, but
    > property there is so expensive it just didn't seem feasible,
so
    > I opted for Melbourne.
    >
    > Since arriving I have been offered just one job which, after verbally accepting,
    > was withdrawn 4 days later (another story). There are zero
oracle
    > dba contracts here. I have many interviews with agencies, all to no
avail -
    > either the contract turns into thin air, or there wasn't any funding for
it.
    > I am a Degree qualified Oracle certified Oracle DBA with 5 years
experience.
    > Since I left school in the UK, the longest I've been out of work in the UK is
    > 2 weeks.
    >
    > Oracle was listed on the Skills in Demand list when I applied for my VISA. DIMA
    > should be more specific and say they need Oracle Applications/Financials or
    > Developers because the reality here is that clients won't give you a second look if
    > you don't match their requirements exactly.
    >
    > I have exhaused my funds and I am on my way back to the UK to find work
(in
    > spite of all the problems the UK has). The irony is, Aussie newspapers
claim
    > the economy here has bucked the worldwide downward trend - which is supported by
    > the ASX hitting all time highs - so if this is good, I
shudder
    > to see bad. People keep telling me things will pick up in the new year - it's mid
    > Feb, and there's no sign of that revival yet.
    >
    > Be advised - the property market in Melbourne rocketed in 2001 - some
areas,
    > the average price increased by $200K in a year, so the inner eastern
suburbs
    > of Melbourne (where all the good schools are) now require significant incomes
    > ($120K +) to be affordable, and Melburnians send their children to independent
    > secondary schools, which also puts a strain on your income -
in
    > my short experience, the cost of living here is higher than in the UK, so
be
    > warned, do your homework.
    >
    > I haven't given up entirely, I can see the potential and I want it to
work -
    > but if I can't get employment, there's no future here.

dave66

get a permie job, there's loads !!
An Oracle DBA.

dave66

just checked jobnet.com.au --> there isn't loads at all. Apologies.
I used to be a contractor in the UK, but now I am a sad permie bastard on a shite salary. I'm spending my time in Oz to learn some 11i Apps stuff. It's a nice place to learn...not much good for contracting though.

There is one contract on jobnet for Melbourne. Big job. I take it you are not willing to travel around doing 3 month conracts here and there ? Most people I know in the industry reckon it will pick up in April...now where have I heard that before.

Good luck.

Robert Nicholso

I think it's niave to think that anybody who's out of work for 2 years will easily
find IT work. It doesn't take long for the gaping hole in the resume to become
significant in the eyes of prospective employers. Plus in australia you want at least
$80k and you aren't going to get that with a gaping hole in the resume. I haven't
tried that myself but I do have some holes in my resume due mostly to voluntarily
taking time off.

Jacqui <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Fortunately we have enough savings to tide us over for a while, hubby is
    > half-expecting to be unemployed to start with, so we're going with the attitude
    > that even if he can't find his ideal IT job, then providing he can get a job down
    > the local supermarket stacking shelves, then so be
    > it. I'm prepared to go back out to work too if need be, so I'm sure we'll survive.
    > If he can't get a good IT job after 2 years of trying, that's when we'll have
    > to give it a rethink.

dave66

Well, why don't you lie like everyone (generalisation, I know) else does ? Nobody ever checks !! I've taken 4 years off from IT (degree course and some travelling) and I got straight back into an IT job.

Magwired

You said it davebwithane - that is a huge generalisation. You've got to be in a very small minority to take things that far and lie on your CV with regards to fabricated work experience covering a four year period.

Smaller companies might not have the resources to make the necessary checks but any large company worthy of a reputation (which typically tend to be the ones that have the best remuneration) will certainly look more closely.

You also mentioned in a previous posting that you merely downloaded a document off the internet for your RPL application and fabricated that.

I think people reading your suggestions need to be very wary of your advice. Don't underestimate DIMA that they won't easily spot an RPL application that's either been copied or fabricated. If there's any doubts as to the authenticity of your application you can bet your last Aussie dollar that you'll be overlooked.

One last thing - don't think that DIMA aren't aware of this newsgroup before you scupper your chances completely. We've been regulars to this newsgroup for more than a year now (received our visa in November last year). When DIMA telephoned us to request our medical certificates and I commented on something with regards to medicals that I saw on this newsgroup, the DIMA official immediately asked if I was referring to the BritishExpats forum.

dave66

I am aware that they read this. I will be honest with you I think they are aware that people fabricate RPL applications as well as CV's. I think it would be very niave of them to think otherwise and anybody else for that matter. .

Paul A Dubar

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You were fortunate enough to be in the right market - Oracle Applications are heavily
used here so you'll have no shortage of work.

"lmaynard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Try to find a job before you go. I had my first interviews by phone and the final
    > one by video conference that I instigated and set up. If you can set this up it
    > show that you are resourceful!!
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Paul A Dubar

Robert has hit the nail on the head - I have calculated I need at least $80K to make
things pay over here (for my family and I) - now that's an indication of the high
cost of living in Australia if you need to live and work close to a city centre. If
you were earning 80K pounds you'd be as happy as a pig in shit in the UK! The DBA
jobs in Melbourne are paying around $70K right now, and they don't just want a DBA,
they want a Developer/Financials/Applications person to boot. This is the difference
here - they want too much and pay too little for it - it's no wonder so many ozzie
Oracle skilled people are in the UK making more money than they could dream of in
Australia.

I don't think I'm prepared to go from having no financial difficulties to struggling
for money for 2 years - you'd have to have had a pretty bad life in the UK to put up
with that. Maybe its the wrong time of my life to be doing this - and the global
economic climate hasn't made it any easier.

Good luck to Jacqui and her husband, but believe me, if you're husband has been out
of IT work for a year he's old hat, and his motivation and self esteem will be
severely dented too.

Paul.

"Robert Nicholson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I think it's niave to think that anybody who's out of work for 2 years will easily
    > find IT work. It doesn't take long for the gaping hole in the resume to become
    > significant in the eyes of prospective employers. Plus in australia you want at
    > least $80k and you aren't going to get that with a gaping hole in the resume. I
    > haven't tried that myself but I do have some holes in my resume due mostly to
    > voluntarily taking time off.
    >
    > Jacqui <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Fortunately we have enough savings to tide us over for a while, hubby is
    > > half-expecting to be unemployed to start with, so we're going with the attitude
    > > that even if he can't find his ideal IT job, then providing he can get a job down
    > > the local supermarket stacking shelves, then so be
    > > it. I'm prepared to go back out to work too if need be, so I'm sure we'll
    > > survive. If he can't get a good IT job after 2 years of trying, that's when
    > > we'll have to give it a rethink.