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-   -   Interest in Australia - how many years in australia (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/interest-australia-how-many-years-australia-527700/)

jan&co Apr 8th 2008 8:21 am

Interest in Australia - how many years in australia
 
We fulfilled our 2 yrs residency requirement in 2007. However we have to return to our country after that. We are still not able to know exactly when we can return to Australia. Someone was telling me that if we have interests in Australia, such as a home(or residential properties), the 2yr out of 5 will not pose a problem. Is that true? I searched on dimia website but couldnt see anything.

Also, the clause "multiple entry to Australia" - is there a minimum stay-in-Australia period for each entry?

Anyone has such experience to share? Thanks!


Jan

Pollyana Apr 8th 2008 9:32 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by jan&co (Post 6176727)
We fulfilled our 2 yrs residency requirement in 2007. However we have to return to our country after that. We are still not able to know exactly when we can return to Australia. Someone was telling me that if we have interests in Australia, such as a home(or residential properties), the 2yr out of 5 will not pose a problem. Is that true? I searched on dimia website but couldnt see anything.

Also, the clause "multiple entry to Australia" - is there a minimum stay-in-Australia period for each entry?

Anyone has such experience to share? Thanks!


Jan

What visa are you on? :confused:

jan&co Apr 8th 2008 9:54 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 6176929)
What visa are you on? :confused:

121 ENS.

jan&co Apr 9th 2008 7:55 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 
Hi

Im wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge? Thanks. Would really appreciate any leads.

Jan

Pollyana Apr 9th 2008 10:41 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by jan&co (Post 6181458)
Hi

Im wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge? Thanks. Would really appreciate any leads.

Jan

Wish I could help but I know nothing about ENS.
Bit of a liberty but I'll change the title for you, might get spotted that way ;)

jan&co Apr 11th 2008 1:12 pm

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 6181989)
Wish I could help but I know nothing about ENS.
Bit of a liberty but I'll change the title for you, might get spotted that way ;)


Thanks a lot, Pollyanna.

We heard from friends that once your permanent residency is granted and you've arrived and settled, the type of visa does not quite matter anymore so long as you observe the 2 out of 5 (its 3 out of 5 years now?) rule. So whether its ENS or other visas, is not quite the point here.

Maybe the title can be changed to Keeping that Visa? 2-out-of-5 Years? .....

Our dilemma is not knowing when we can return to Australia and we surely do not wish to lose that residency visa. Question is: does having a property in Australia mean having a vested interest in the country? If so, can it be an investment property?

Anyone out there in the know? Or in a similar situation? Or have such experience?

Thanks.

JAJ Apr 11th 2008 10:16 pm

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by jan&co (Post 6193330)
Thanks a lot, Pollyanna.

We heard from friends that once your permanent residency is granted and you've arrived and settled, the type of visa does not quite matter anymore so long as you observe the 2 out of 5 (its 3 out of 5 years now?) rule. So whether its ENS or other visas, is not quite the point here.

Maybe the title can be changed to Keeping that Visa? 2-out-of-5 Years? .....

Our dilemma is not knowing when we can return to Australia and we surely do not wish to lose that residency visa. Question is: does having a property in Australia mean having a vested interest in the country? If so, can it be an investment property?

Did you read form 968i?
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/968i.pdf

Any reason why Australian citizenship is not an option?

jan&co Apr 12th 2008 12:18 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 6195932)
Did you read form 968i?
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/968i.pdf

Any reason why Australian citizenship is not an option?

Good question. We had to leave immediately after 2 years, so there wasnt time to apply for citizenship. The biggest obstacle is the no dual citizenship policy in our country. :(

Will be looking into the form. Thanks. Appreciate that.


warm regards

JAJ Apr 12th 2008 1:18 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by jan&co (Post 6196197)
Good question. We had to leave immediately after 2 years, so there wasnt time to apply for citizenship. The biggest obstacle is the no dual citizenship policy in our country.


If you have 730 days in Australia as a permanent resident in the last 5 years, you can (under current law) get a 5 year RRV on a "no questions asked" basis upon application. Fee is A$120.

If you do not have this physical presence, you need to show "substantial ties" to Australia.

And if your absence has exceeded 5 years (continuous absence) and you last left as a permanent resident, you must show "compelling and compassionate reasons".

There are special rules (more difficult) if you last departed as a temporary resident. Also special rules for spouses and children of a person granted a 5 year RRV.

The 3 month single entry RRV has its own set of rules. It is not a "consolation prize" for those refused a 5 year RRV.

jan&co Apr 12th 2008 4:51 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 6196314)
If you have 730 days in Australia as a permanent resident in the last 5 years, you can (under current law) get a 5 year RRV on a "no questions asked" basis upon application. Fee is A$120.


Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 6196314)

Is there a minimum length of stay for each trip back to Australia?

If you do not have this physical presence, you need to show "substantial ties" to Australia.

This is the BIG QUESTION we have been asking - what is 'substantial ties" - is having a property one of the substantial ties? if so, can it be an investment property? or has it to be a principal place of residence? Just couldnt find it on the website.


Thanks!




And if your absence has exceeded 5 years (continuous absence) and you last left as a permanent resident, you must show "compelling and compassionate reasons".

There are special rules (more difficult) if you last departed as a temporary resident. Also special rules for spouses and children of a person granted a 5 year RRV.

The 3 month single entry RRV has its own set of rules. It is not a "consolation prize" for those refused a 5 year RRV.


louie Apr 12th 2008 7:10 pm

Re: Interest in Australia
 

Originally Posted by jan&co (Post 6196664)
This is the BIG QUESTION we have been asking - what is 'substantial ties" - is having a property one of the substantial ties? if so, can it be an investment property? or has it to be a principal place of residence? Just couldnt find it on the website.

Seems to me (as one who may well be in the same position one day) that this question (what constitutes substantial ties) is one that no-one on here ever seems to be able to answer.

Does anyone know if DIMA's internal guidance (presumably they must have some!) is publically available?

Sorry if this constitutes hijacking your thread, but we have a property in Oz (currently tenanted but intended to be our home one day), I will be applying for membership of the ICAA (am already qualified to do so), which is the skill enabling us to get our 136 visa in the first place and hubby has an aunt and cousins in Oz, to whom we are quite close but who live in a different state to where we intend to live. Does anyone have any thoughts as to whether this is likely to suffice or any ideas as to what we could do to strengthen our ties?

jan&co Apr 13th 2008 7:42 am

Re: Interest in Australia
 
[QUOTE=JAJ;6195932]Did you read form 968i?
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/968i.pdf


I've gone thru the form,but nothing about "substantial ties" or anything similar.

Anyone out there know something.....? Maybe the post should be re-titled SUBSTANTIAL TIES TO AUSTRALIA?


Thanks.

louie Apr 13th 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Interest in Australia - how many years in australia
 
This might help a little - http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/_pdf/155-Checklist.pdf

JAJ Apr 13th 2008 9:37 pm

Re: Interest in Australia - how many years in australia
 

Originally Posted by louie (Post 6201698)

That's a reasonable guide.

Many people ask this question and are disappointed when they can't get a definitive answer from an online forum. Most agents don't have much experience in this area either.

The problem is that DIAC policy is just a guideline and it is down to the individual decision maker to apply these guidelines. In some cases, there is an appeal right to the Migration Review Tribunal.

Some extracts from the policy manual are, for "employment ties":

An applicant who is currently employed in Australia, or who has accepted a formal offer of employment in Australia, has an employment tie with Australia. An applicant employed outside Australia may also be considered to have employment ties with Australia if employed by an organisation such as:

• an Australian owned organisation (eg a company, university, college, religious organisation, etc)
• a Commonwealth, State, Territory or Local Government organisation (including a Government Business Enterprise or a Statutory Authority/agency)
• an international organisation to which the International Organisations (Privileges and Immunities) Act 1963 applies within the meaning of ss 3(1) of that Act (see Attachment 4)
• the Australian office of a multinational company or a foreign owned company or
• an Australian community/charity organisation or the Australian office of an international charity organisation.

... In assessing whether an employment tie is substantial, a relevant consideration is whether the applicant is employed in a permanent, temporary or contract capacity, and an agreed wage or salary is paid to undertake the work. Casual work would not normally be considered to be a substantial tie.

... An applicant's substantial employment tie may be of benefit to Australia if the applicant:
• is employed, or has accepted employment, in Australia
• is employed outside Australia by an organisation specified in 4.4.20 above or
• is employed outside Australia by an organisation involved in activities such as
– generation of income for Australia
– promotion of Australian exports
– enhancing Australia's international reputation/goodwill
– using Australian technology offshore or
– introducing new technology into Australia


and "personal ties":

Decision makers have the flexibility to consider a range of personal ties to Australia that may not fall under the categories of business, cultural or employment ties, but are the reason for the applicant's wish to return to Australia. Examples of personal ties include but are not limited to:

• long term residence in Australia prior to the last five years, particularly, if the applicant has spent their formative years in Australia, or studied or been employed in Australia
• ownership of a home and/or other personal assets in Australia
• the applicant has close family members, or close friends in the nature of family, who are permanent residents or citizens and who reside in Australia or
• the applicant is travelling or residing overseas with an Australian citizen spouse and/or children who may suffer hardship if the applicant was not granted an RRV.

... Relevant considerations in assessing whether a personal tie is substantial are whether an applicant regards Australia as home and whether the applicant has stronger ties of a similar nature in any other country. It is recognised that a person may have substantial ties to more than one country.

... Therefore, the applicant’s physical and emotional ties with Australia should be weighed against ties in any other country (for example; place of residence, house, schooling of children, residence of spouse, citizenship of immediate family, family and friend ties and general identification).

.... The applicant’s personal, physical and emotional ties to Australia should outweigh the applicant’s ties to any other country.

... Substantial personal ties may be of benefit to Australia in the sense that the applicant is a participating member of the Australian community and economy, or that they are likely to become a participating member of the Australian community and economy in the future, and that their ties enrich the lives of individual Australian residents and citizens.

... It is also relevant to consider the potential hardship to the applicant’s Australian citizen family unit members (who can travel to and from Australia at will), or to any other Australian citizens with whom the applicant has close ties, if the applicant is not granted an RRV.


----------

One can also have "business" or "cultural" ties but these are less usual.

Bear in mind that the rules for RRVs, or the policy, could be changed anytime.

You can go to http://www.austlii.edu.au and search the Migration Review Tribunal decisions database for rulings on RRV appeals. Some appeals succeed, others don't.

jan&co Apr 14th 2008 11:48 am

Re: Interest in Australia - how many years in australia
 

Originally Posted by louie (Post 6201698)


Thanks for the link. It helps.


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