Pollyana

If you are a migration agent could you pelase follow the protocol that the other agents on BE have adopted and display your MARA number in your signature.

If you are NOT a registered migration agent you need to change your username.

I am aware that you have been asked about this by Admin, for the simple reason that if you purport to be a migration agent in Australia when you are not, then you are breaking the law.

Please respond to the message you have received from Site Admin and advise of the name under which you would like to post in future otherwise you may find your posting privileges removed.

spinale

I may be able to shed some light on this very confusing issue! My husband is a Plant Op - has had his CPCS for Dumpers since August '99 and for Loader Shovels since '03. September '06 we decided we'd had enough of this country (the UK) going down the pan and investigated ways to emigrate to Oz. Was told by a Migration Agent in Oct '06 that it would be possible, but he would be able to help us more after DH had done his TRA. DH dragged his heels in doing his TRA (not helped in the slightest by ALL of his former employers refusing to even acknowledge that they had received his request for refs - let alone providing us with them!! - I think this in turn made DH lose heart somewhat), and thus he did not get his Stat Decs done til March '07!! By this time, we had decided what-the-heck, it can't be that hard, we'll save ourselves money by doing it ourselves, and NOT use the Migration Agent after all. So then DH set about emailling as many Mining Comps as he could find, but to no avail.

In the interim, out of curiosity, I was still filling in online application forms to various Migration Agents, giving full details about my husbands work etc. Most of this came to nothing, but then mid-July '07 one of the Agents phoned DH (while he was at work) and said that he couldn't really help him, but what did I do - so DH explained that I am NVQ-qualified in Business Admin. The Agent then said, "well, what you can do is go over, with your wife as an International Student on a Student Visa, and when you are actually in Oz, you could then apply to the Mining Comps direct, and you will probably find you'll get sponsorship a lot easier, b/c you are already out there!" I don't recall him mentioning that DH would need to get his UK Plant Op quals converted to Ozzie ones - I believe that was something we found out for ourselves BEFORE we left! So then, on August 1st, I applied to Perth Institute WA, who within two weeks had accepted my application (probs with online card payment - I mis-quoted the number by one digit, was enough to delay things by one week!) They then gave me the relevant reference number I needed to quote on my online Visa application to DIAC. On August 31st, I was successfully awarded an Online Student Visa, with DH as my named 2nd applicant (we have no children!) Now comes the crunch - we had not got anything organised, so my course start date was set for 19th Nov '07 to give us time to ship our stuff (and hopefully sell our house - but thats another story in itself!!)

So we departed the UK on 31st Oct'07 - landed at Perth Int. and got our entry stamp at half past midnight (Perth time); spent the 1st two weeks there getting our bearings etc. We even went to a Mining Expo held just outside of Clairemont on 9th Nov'07 - spoke to Rio Tinto (big mining comp - for those who don't know!!!), they even gave DH an application form to fill in!!! We really thought that it would not be very long at all before DH got offered a job - after all, we regularly got The West Australian, which had at least THREE PAGES of Plant Ops jobs within the Job Section EVERY SATURDAY!!!!

BUT WHAT WE DID NOT KNOW WAS: back in Sept'07 DIAC had CHANGED the 457 Visa from being what I call an "OPEN" Visa (i.e. a Visa that does not have a "gazette" or list of in-demand occupations attached to it) to what they call a "gazetted" Visa - in other words, "if your jobs not down, you're not coming in"!! Put another way, it is now THE SAME AS ALL THE OTHER SKILLED VISAS AUSTRALIA HAS; IN THAT, IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT A "SKILLED" IN-DEMAND OCCUPATION - AUSTRALIA DOES NOT WANT YOU!!!!!!!!!

What makes this an even bigger insult, is not only are the Mining Comps CHRONICALLY short of Plant Ops (in North WA, at least!); but it would appear the Ozzies themselves are not interested in training/retraining as Plant Ops, so it's not as if my DH (or anyone elses, for that matter) would be "taking away" a job from the Ozzies!! Add to this, having done research on the Australian Bureau of Statistics website, I found out that Mining Plant Ops are only required to be certified to AQF 2 - which is only eqivalent to NVQ 1 - as you can see that the-powers-that-be think that (Mining) Plant Ops are NOT "SKILLED" workers! WTF -I have had a go at both machines, and I KNOW that any idiot can drive such machinery BUT IT TAKES A SKILLED PERSON TO OPERATE THEM!!!!!

On a more positive note, after the election, Kevin Rudd started dropping hints that HE is going to find ways to make it easier for Mining Comps to use the 457 to help ease the "SKILLS" shortages within the Mining/Resources Industry!! (whether he's ACTUALLY referring to Plant Ops - or just the Mining Engineers, who ARE ALREADY ON THE 457 ANYWAY!!, I/DH don't know!! I am watching the DIAC website like a hawk - its b/c I stopped visiting it after I'd been awarded my Student Visa that DH & I had to come back to the UK, on 1st Feb this year!!! It also did NOT help that DIAC BURIED the "Gazette" change to the 457 deep within their online "Legislation & Regulations" pages!!!! AND TO ADD EVEN FURTHER INSULT MADE SUCH A SONG-AND-DANCE ABOUT ANNOUNCING THE "ENGLISH-LANGUAGE" CHANGE TO THE VERY SAME VISA, BUT NO MENTION OF ADDING A " GAZETTE" TO IT ONLY TEN DAYS LATER!!!!!!)
BUT in watching the website like a hawk, since we landed back in the UK; ONLY THIS MORNING, I have noticed that DIAC has put an announcement on their homepage, declaring that the "Legislative Changes" will be updated on 28th April '08!!!! As I texted my DH earlier: Here's hoping it's good news for Plant Ops!!!

ALSO, TO THE POSTER WHO CLAIMED THAT UK PLANT OPS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET WORK IN OZ, JUST B/C UK MACHINES ARE NOWHERE NEAR AS BIG - I DON'T KNOW WHO TOLD YOU THIS, BUT THEY WERE TALKING OUT OF THEIR A**!!!! Whilst we were there, my DH SUCCESSFULLY took both his Dumper and Loader assessments and NOW HAS AQF 2 FOR BOTH! He took his UK Dumper and Loader Quals to the Assessor, who then gave him a pratical assessment, and even though he'd never operated a Dumper as big as that before, he was compentent enough that the Assessor passed him; not only that but my DH told me that it was NO DIFFERENT TO ANY OF THE "UK" DUMPERS HE'D EVER OPERATED!!!!!!

You might also be interested to know that you have to take TWO DIFFERENT types of H&S assessment (one's called a "blue card" - for obvious reasons!!, and thats for all general construction/trade workers; and the other one's a MARCSTA card, and its Mining-work specific); you cannot operate in a mine w/o either one of these cards (oh, and btw, H&S is referred to as Safety & Health out there, just doesn't sound right/roll off the tongue in quite the same way!!) One more thing, any UK Plant Op hoping to do the same job in WA, will need to pass their HR (Heavy Rigid) licence - it's essentially the equivalent to UK HGV - unlike here in the UK, Aus have actually realised that they are dangerous, HEAVY machines, and quite rightly, should be classified alongside road trucks when it comes to driver safety/awareness!!! It does make me v. angry that the DVLA/Gov't seem to think that just b/c our plant machinery is operated off-road, the drivers do not need to meet the exacting requirements that HGV drivers do - my DH REGULARLY does 12 HOUR shifts Mon-Fri (& then 6 HRS on Sat too) only getting two 15-min breaks Mon-Fri, and one 15-min break on Sat - there is no way an HGV driver would be allowed to work that long - but just b/c he's off-rd - that makes it safer for my DH to do this that it does an HGV driver, go figure!!!!!!

Ok, SORRY, rant over!

SORRY this post is soooo long, but I wanted to post our whole sorry, sad tale; so that no-one else in the Plant Industry makes the same mistake(s) we did! Hope the majority of what I've written has been of some help to any other Plant Ops (or their OH's!) looking for any way to get to Oz; but until Kevin Rudd/Immigration Minister Chris Evans/DIAC change ANY of the Visa rules, your best bet is if the Plant Ops PARTNER has an occupation in demand!! (We were looking into DH retraining as a Sparkie - but our house sale did not give us as much profit as we'd anticipated, we lost all our furniture: were gonna buy new in Oz, on DH's excellent Mining wages so what small profit we did make has gone on setting ourselves up in the UK AGAIN!!!! - he will retrain as a sparkie, in spite of the added cost, if he has to; but at the mo we are holding out, hoping against hope that very soon Kevin Rudd/Immigration Minister Chris Evans/DIAC will add Mining Plant Ops to at least one of the Visas!!!)
TTFN, Victoria (aka Viki)

scotty 71

Thanks for that VeryStormy.....now you crack on with your homework! Good luck by the way.


All the best, Gilly.

scotty 71

Welcome to the forum spinale.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that out for us all, it's very helpful.
Scott will be very interested to read this as I'm sure others will be.



Thanks again and good luck, Gilly.

spinale

Thanks for the thanks, Gilly - I have just checked a leaflet I picked up at the Mining Expo last Nov. Its called "Australian Visas for Overseas Skilled Workers" the ref number is DIAC 07/00151 and it lists the following Visas : Temp Business (Long Stay) 457; Regional Long Stay Temp Business (457); Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS); Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS); Skilled - Independent; Skilled - Sponsored; Skilled Regional Sponsored; Skilled - Regional; Skilled - Graduate; Skilled Recognised Graduate; Working Holiday (417) Visa & Student. (I have listed them exactly as they are worded on the leaflet!) It briefly details the requirements for each Visa, and pathways to PR/Citizenship using each Visa.

This leaflet states quite catergorically under the Regional 457, that your occupation must be on the 457 "gazette notice" - exactly the same requirement as for the "ordinary" 457!! So I don't see how anyone who's occupation is not on the notice could even obtain Regional sponsorship! I have read and re-read Booklet 11 (the relevant booklet for 457 Visa) countless times since we got back from Oz, and I can find no mention whatsoever that on the Regional 457 Groups 5-7 are exempt from the "Skills" rule - this used to be the case, until DIAC added the "gazette" to the 457 in September 2007!!!! Looks like me&my DH left it too late!!! We will just have to wait and see what DIAC's announcement on 28th April brings!

TTFN, Victoria.

Dawn-D

Hi Victoria,

Sorry to hear about the problems you had, I know how you feel being the wife of a plant op myself. We've done the route of being there, getting a sponsor, then that seemingly fallen through and spoke/contacted migration agents who can't help until you find a sponsor!

From the information I've been given about student visa's I thought your OH would have been able to work but only a maximum of 20 hours per week! We looked into this visa but it would have been expensive for us as we have 3 kids and we would have had to have payed international school fees for them by going as a student.

Regarding the info of heavy plant in Australia being different to the heavy plant of the UK. This was something I was told by various recruitment agencies in WA and Queensland and even a couple of mining companies

Now regarding Chris Evans (Dept of immigration). I wrote to him in February this year stating our case, how much money we could bring etc and I had a reply about 3 weeks ago now from his secretary. It said our chances were slim but if a job fitting our description had not been filled by an Australian and was in a regional area, then that company would be allowed to sponsor us on a 457.

In Booklet 11 that you refer to, on page 38 Part 7 is Eligible Occupations. Under this it says:

Regional Employers may seek waiver of the minmum skill level and nominated skilled occupations (however it doesn't tell you where you find this)!

It IS found on the Regional Sponsored Migration Subclass 119/857 in booklet 5 which states on P22 under Skill Requirements:

Positions that have a skill level requirement of less than a diploma and, therefore, do not meet the standard RSMS criterea, may be considered 'exceptional' if:

* the occupation has a skill level requirement of at least a AQF Certificate II
(ie is within Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) major
groups 5 to 7)

I do know someone who got in as a plant op this route in Queensland. The key still lies in finding a sponsor which is like searching for a needle in a haystack. After sending out lots of CV's we gave up after keep being told that there are already plenty of Australian plant ops there. However I'm told that a lot of these operators then move to the mines which leaves a shortage in regional areas

The only thing I would say is keep applying for jobs from job search engines if you have time on your side. But for us with a 14 year old son time is of the essence for obtaining PR before he would reach 18!

Hope the booklet 5 info has helped clarify part but I think this occupation is always going to raise differences of opinion and I hope like yourself Plant Ops are part of the change of legislation at the end of the month. (Thanks for that info by the way).

Good luck to you whichever way you decide to proceed.

spinale

Dawn, thanks for the reply. I did find the page you refer to, and I stand corrected! However, this link: http://www.immi.gov.au/legislation/a...0092007-02.htm is the legislation change of September that I referred to in my 1st post; and as you can see it makes no mention that the Regional 457 is still exempt from the "skills" clause - this is where I am now very confused - both Booklet 11 and your letter say that IF you are someone who's occupation is NOT on the (EN)SOL, you can still get 457 sponsorship, PROVIDED that the sponsor is Regional, BUT the actual Legislation Change itself implies that this is NO LONGER the case; if Australian Immigration Dept themselves do not clarify which is correct, how on earth are we expected to work it out? BTW, the nominated skills list for the 457, is within Booklet 11, if you just scroll down after page 38 (Part 7 Eligible Occupations), there they are, listed from Professionals, right down to Tradeworkers.

Going on to a couple of other points you made, yes my hubby could've worked the 20 hrs per week, but for two things: firstly, we went over to Oz on minimal savings, the intention being that (b/c WA is so chronically understaffed for Plant Ops!) we thought that he'd get a job in the mines very quickly; and b/c we'd gone over on very little money, 20 hrs per week was not enough income! (And once I'd started on my full-time course, I had no spare time! Also Student Visa rules stipulate that neither of you can work until after the "Student" has started their course; and also, you have to apply for an Aus Tax Number, and Permission To Work before you can start work!) Secondly, when he tried to get work, no-one wanted to employ him for 20 hrs per wk, they all wanted him to do a minimum of 40 hrs per week (which is fair enough); the problem came when they realised that he was not a PR and would then turn around and tell him that "sorry, we do not deal with the 457 visa" and in fact, some of them did not even know what it was!!

Regarding the difference between UK and Oz machines, all I can go on is by what my hubby told me of his Ozzie Assessment; apparently the Australian guy who took him had worked in the mines for a long time himself, took one look at DH's CPCS card (& his relevant C&G quals), and said "yeah, we can put in for those, no worries!" (he has passed loads of other "Poms" with just their bog-standard CPCS card.) As my hubby has told me on more than one occasion, the size of the machines is actually immaterial, b/c inside they operate exactly the same way - after all they are made by the same global manufacturers: komatsu, cat, jcb, (bell) etc. I dunno, maybe he just has more a mind-set for driving them; b/c although I have sat in the cabs of both a dumper truck and a loader shovel, (and moved "the buck" of one and the shovel on the other!); I know I could not operate one for a living - its way beyond me!!

We also know of someone who has gone to work in the Oz Plant Industry - but this was the friend of a friend, and I gather (from my hubby) it was some years ago!! I am curious to know how recently your acquaintance managed to get 457 sponsorship for Plant work?

Also, I don't quite understand why you were being told that the Plant Ops keep moving to the Mines, which then leaves a shortage in the "Regional areas" - the Mines ARE IN the Regional areas!!!! (I assume that your confused emoticon afterwards implies that you are also confused by this statement!)

I now do not know whether hubby getting work as a Plant Op is a viable option; guess I'm just gonna have to wait and see what 28th April brings!! The really frustrsting thing for me, is that there is a chronic shortage of Plant Ops in the Mines in WA; but for some reason, the Mining Comps either don't want to sponsor a Pom/don't realise that they can sponsor a Pom to do the job!! - every week for the entire three months we were out there (1st Nov'07 to 1st Feb'08), we looked at the Job Section of The West Australian, and w/o fail, there was at least three pages of Plant Ops Jobs in the Mines, every week!! - Aussies might be working in the Mines of Qld - but they sure as hell aren't in WA!!
TTFN, Victoria.

Dawn-D

Hi Victoria

Thanks for getting back to me. Thanks for the link re legislation changes from last September. Although the first paragraph says the occupation has to be on the gazetted list the second paragraph states that if it is not it may still be approved if the nominator becomes party to a labour agreement. So, I may be wrong, but the way I read it is that there is still a way. Or maybe that's just wishfull thinking

Regarding your student visa and OH only being able to work 20 hours, sorry, I mentioned it as you hadn't commented on it in your first post and wasn't sure if you'd realised that at the time. Hope that makes sense. With regards to the mines, we initially wanted to move to WA and sent CV's to them (including Rio Tinto). Some of them (can't remember which now) do say on their website that they sponsor but when we kept getting knocked back I phoned a mining agency in Kalgoorlie who told me that it was due to OH not having experience on the larger machines. I quite agree with you that our OH's would be capable of driving them though. I think maybe the assessor and the employers have two different views on this though.

With regards to plant ops moving to the mines and leaving a shortage in regional areas - yes the mines are in regional areas but there are also lots of regional areas away from the mines. Eligible postcodes for the Regional Subclass 457 programme for WA are:

6041 to 6044
6083 to 6084
6121 to 6126
6200 to 6799

For example we were in Mandurah which is 6210 but this is miles away from the mines. So this is why it then left a shortage when the plant ops left. I was told this by an earthworks company in Mandurah as well as aquaintance in Queensland who by the way moved there sometime around last September.
It just gets confusing then to me when other people on here say that there are plenty of plant ops already there. I'm sure you feel the same!

I do agree with you that it is so frustrating seeing all the jobs advertised, even just the excavator op jobs that are not in the mines, but there are loads of them on the search engines :curse:

Well, lets keep our fingers crossed for the 28th April and a change of legislation hopefully in our favour. I've still given up though

Best Wishes

saraliz

Hi Spinale,

With respect, the legislative changes that occurred in September 2007 that you refer to serve only to clarify the situation if the list of suitable occupations for the 457 visa changes while an application is being processed - a gazetted list of occupations for the 457 visa has been in place since well before this date.

I think you may be confusing the gazette notice listing suitable occupations for 457 visa sponsorship (both normal and regional) with the Skilled Occupation List ('SOL') - these are two separate documents, and the SOL is not used in relation to 457 visas. A copy of the gazette notice listing allowable 457 visa occupations can be found here: http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skill...ccupations.pdf (see schedules A-D).

As you can see from this document, most occupations that are ASCO level 4 or higher (tradeperson, associate professional, professional and manager-level) are suitable for 457 sponsorship, and most occupations that are ASCO level 7 or higher are suitable for regional 457 sponsorship.

Construction plant operators such as bulldozer, loader, grader and excavator operators fall under ASCO level 7, and therefore could potentially be sponsored under a regional 457 visa.

Kind regards

Sara Brownell

The morris clan

Hi,

we are the family who Dawn-D knows in Queensland who got here on the 457 as Plant Op. We arrived beginning of October 2008 and since being here found out that our sponsor had been advertising for over 18 months to find a plant op who would stay longer than 2 months before going to the mines, the plant op they found to stay longer than 2 months was my husband. During the course of my husbands work he has spoke to other companies who are having the same trouble, no one can keep operators as they all want mine work as the pay is better. We even know a guy who is having the same problem in Brisbane, but he cannot sponsor due to being in a non-regional area.

We were originally told that we would never get a visa due to my husbands occupation, but are living proof, plant ops can get a visa. It took months of applying for every available job but we found a sponsor in the end. The way I see it is, if you want something hard enough you will find a way to get it, no matter what people say or do to put you down.

Good luck to all you plant ops out there.

Dawn-D

Hiya Helen,

Great post, hopefully it will restore faith to all the other plant ops trying to get to Oz.

Speak to you soon.

scotty 71

Any news anyone?

Dawn-D

Well guess what, this plant op has found one and was officially offered job at the beginning of the week

To Scotty71, sorry I didn't come back to the thread earlier, took a break for a week or so then got back on the case of sending CV's and finally after 200+ it paid off and it was as Helen described - someone having difficulty keeping someone as there is always a better offer in the mines. It is also quite regional so our compromise is that hubby will work Mon-Fri am then be home for the weekend! Let me know how you are getting on

To JennyGee, just tell your brother in law to keep sending CV's daily and he'll get there in the end. We searched these jobs sites and applied for what was on offer every day:

www.seek.com.au
www.alljobs.com.au
www.search4jobs.com.au

Good luck to him and let us know how he gets on.

Hey Helen, a lot calmer today, gradually getting over the shock and I've won on the dog front - Flintoff's coming too



We'll soon be meeting up for a drink or 2 I'll speak to you again soon.

scotty 71

Dawn that is brilliant, I am chuffed to bits for you! See I told you hun!!

FANTASTIC! We wish you all the best, keep us all updated!! Won't you? Gilly

The morris clan

Hi Dawn,

I'm so pleased Flintoff is coming too!!!!

I told you if you didn't give up and stayed positive you would find something.


looking forward to the drinks!!!!!