Citizenship working outside Oz

Old Nov 12th 2011, 5:04 am
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Default Citizenship working outside Oz

Hi Guys

We could be eligible for citizenship next year. However, i am now working in Africa. I still live in Australia, my company is in Oz, i am paid in Oz and i pay Oz taxes. So, is there a way for me to still claim it next year, as at the moment my roster would drag it out forever - i work 6 weeks in Africa and come home for 2. I believe the minister can award discression - am i likely to qualify?
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Old Nov 12th 2011, 11:05 pm
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Not if you aren't a sports person or working in an oil rig.

Apparently the minister thinks it's OK to discriminate based on employment.

So if you are not an athlete or an oil rig worker they don't think you are doing any service to this country by working for an australian employer and paying australian taxes even though you may not be in the country.

Your (and my) options are either to quit your job and come back here or to give up your citizenship. Sad.
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Old Nov 12th 2011, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by madankumars
Not if you aren't a sports person or working in an oil rig.

Apparently the minister thinks it's OK to discriminate based on employment.

So if you are not an athlete or an oil rig worker they don't think you are doing any service to this country by working for an australian employer and paying australian taxes even though you may not be in the country.

Your (and my) options are either to quit your job and come back here or to give up your citizenship. Sad.
What? Do you have something to back up that assertion?

Originally Posted by verystormy
Hi Guys

We could be eligible for citizenship next year. However, i am now working in Africa. I still live in Australia, my company is in Oz, i am paid in Oz and i pay Oz taxes. So, is there a way for me to still claim it next year, as at the moment my roster would drag it out forever - i work 6 weeks in Africa and come home for 2. I believe the minister can award discression - am i likely to qualify?
OP, sorry but I'm not sure. Hopefully there'll be someone along shortly that can give you a proper answer.
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Old Nov 12th 2011, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by verystormy
Hi Guys

We could be eligible for citizenship next year. However, i am now working in Africa. I still live in Australia, my company is in Oz, i am paid in Oz and i pay Oz taxes. So, is there a way for me to still claim it next year, as at the moment my roster would drag it out forever - i work 6 weeks in Africa and come home for 2. I believe the minister can award discression - am i likely to qualify?
Not a lot of agents know about citizenship rules, but JAJ is the exception to that. Hopefully he will be along to give you some advice. Failing that, I would contact George Lombard's Sydney office for some advice.
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Old Nov 12th 2011, 11:29 pm
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

With aploogies if you have but have you tried the citizenship wizard? You are allowed some time out of the country but I can't remember the details now.

Might be worth a go: http://www.citizenship.gov.au/citizenshipwizard/#null
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 4:04 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

from : www.citizenship.gov.au

To satisfy the residence requirements you must have:
  • 4 years lawful residence in Australia. This period must include 12 months as a permanent resident immediately before making an application for Australian citizenship, and

  • absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the 4 years prior to application, including not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately prior to application.

Discretion based on employment (special residence requirement):
  1. A letter from the Australian Olympic Committee, Australian Paralympic Committee, Tennis Australia or government agency providing evidence that you are seeking to engage in an activity, and that the organisation is supporting your application for citizenship or


  2. A letter of support from your employer confirming details of your employment as a member of a ship or aircraft crew, or your work on a resources or sea installation, including length of time in the role



Residence requirements if you are eligible for "special residence requirement" are:

  • Sports Person: To meet the special resident requirement, you must have been living in Australia on a valid visa which allows permanent residency for 2 years immediately before you apply. During those 2 years you must have been lawfully present in Australia for at least 180 days, including at least 90 days of that time in the 12 months immediately before lodging your application.

  • Pilot/ship crew/Resources worker : You must have held a valid Australian visa for 4 years, immediately before applying, including one year as a permanent resident immediately before applying.
    You must also have been living in Australia for a total of 16 months (480 days) during the 4 years before you apply, with at least 4 months (120 days) of that time in the year immediately before your application.

So there you go. They can be resident in australia for much lesser duration and still apply for citizenship.


And what makes an athelete, pilot or resources worker more special than other workers (IT in my case)?

I have to spend significant amounts of time overseas for work (short but several trips), while my family continues to be in australia and I get paid in Australia and I pay australian taxes.

It is an extremely short sighted view to think that only athletes, pilots, ship crew or resources worker spends lots of time overseas for work

As mentioned earlier, the only option for me is to quit my job. And I dont want to quit my job because I get paid well, and I don't want to lose my career progression.

I call this discrimination, because I can't use the discretion but they can.

Last edited by madankumars; Nov 13th 2011 at 4:27 am.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 5:20 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

I totally agree. It is very unfair. If we are not classed as resident for citizenship thats fine, then they should not class us resident for tax purposes and our income should be tax free. Though it does look like i have a chance as a i am a resource worker - geologist for a mining company and am officially only on secondment to Africa.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 6:36 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by madankumars
And what makes an athelete, pilot or resources worker more special than other workers (IT in my case)?
By the nature of their jobs pilots, ships workers and resource workers must spend time offshore. Pilots fly to other countries and therefore spend a great deal of time outside of Australia. It cannot be helped. They cannot continue to fly internationally and stay in Australia. Resource workers who work on oil rigs offshore outside Australian waters have no choice. They cannot move the rig. Ships' crews face the same thing. Ships travel to countries outside of Australia. Their crew has to go where the ships go. Athletes sometimes need to spend a lot of time overseas to train and compete. The daughter of one of the consultants where I work is an athlete who spents about 3 months a year overseas competing and training. Not by choice, but because it's her career.

Unfortunately, their jobs take them overseas where it cannot be helped. IT can be done in Australia onshore. It does not require you to be on an oil rig or piloting an airplane.
Originally Posted by madankumars
I call this discrimination, because I can't use the discretion but they can.
Do you have any idea just how childish your statement is?
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 7:51 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

No one has a right to citizenship and there's lots of rules put in place for a majority that unfortunately a minority sometimes lose out on. That's life and happens in may of societies rules.

As for paying Aussie Tax - if you have a house here and you or your family have a choice to use the Aussie infastructure at any time then I guess effectiely you should pay for the privelege. Either way you should pay tax in one country or another anyway, one thing is certain and that is paying Tax wherever you are in the world.

As for earning money abroad whilst effectively having roots in Aus. That's your choice. If you choose to work abroad for more money go for it. But don't whinge that this isn't fair when the rules clearly state what the rules are.

Life's a bitch sometimes but that's life.....sorry to be harsh but that's how it goes sometimes mate.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 8:10 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by Dorothy
Do you have any idea just how childish your statement is?
Please.... I don't think there is anything childish in my statement. I am as serious as I can be and I do think I will lodge a discrimination complaint against the department of immigration when I can.



Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
No one has a right to citizenship and there's lots of rules put in place for a majority that unfortunately a minority sometimes lose out on. That's life and happens in may of societies rules.

As for paying Aussie Tax - if you have a house here and you or your family have a choice to use the Aussie infastructure at any time then I guess effectiely you should pay for the privelege. Either way you should pay tax in one country or another anyway, one thing is certain and that is paying Tax wherever you are in the world.

As for earning money abroad whilst effectively having roots in Aus. That's your choice. If you choose to work abroad for more money go for it. But don't whinge that this isn't fair when the rules clearly state what the rules are.

Life's a bitch sometimes but that's life.....sorry to be harsh but that's how it goes sometimes mate.
No, I don't meant to claim that getting citizenship is my right. But the government need to treat everyone as equal.

What they've done is plain short sighted assumption that some professions need to travel more than others.

No it is not my choice. My job requires me to make frequent trips to nearby countries - NZ included. I don't have a choice just like an international Pilot doesnt have a choice but to fly overseas.

By your same logic, the government can simply ask the Pilot to fly domestic routes only, and stay resident right? Why are they excepting them but not other professions?

So the Pilot can can choose to fly international routes and that's OK for the government? but I can't choose a job that makes me fly frequently overseas? That's plain discrimination.

Last edited by madankumars; Nov 13th 2011 at 8:17 am.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 8:28 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by madankumars
.....No it is not my choice. My job requires me to make frequent trips to nearby countries - NZ included. I don't have a choice just like an international Pilot doesnt have a choice but to fly overseas. By your same logic, the government can simply ask the Pilot to fly domestic routes only, and stay resident right? Why are they excepting them but not other professions?

So the Pilot can can choose to fly international routes and that's OK for the government? but I can't choose a job that makes me fly frequently overseas? That's plain discrimination.
You are an IT consultant yes? Then you can choose to work in Aus mate. Plenty of IT consultants do. Also the rules do make allowances for a certain period of time away from Aus. A pilot on the otherhand is expected to work internationally - you can't compare your jobs mate.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 8:48 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
You are an IT consultant yes? Then you can choose to work in Aus mate. Plenty of IT consultants do. Also the rules do make allowances for a certain period of time away from Aus. A pilot on the otherhand is expected to work internationally - you can't compare your jobs mate.
As I said, the pilot has a made that choice to fly international routes. A pilot flying domestic routes is working in Australia. There is a choice here. By your same logic the pilot can "choose to work in Aus ", yeah - only until he/she gets citizenship ? but wait, he doesnt have to because immigration thinks pilots are special.

Why can't I compare my work with a pilot? I probably make more than some of them.

Last edited by madankumars; Nov 13th 2011 at 8:56 am.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 8:56 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by madankumars
As I said, the pilot has a made that choice to fly international routes. A pilot flying domestic routes is working in Australia. There is a choice here.

Why can't I compare my work with a pilot? I probably make more than some of them.
Because by definition a pilot is expected to work overseas, it's part of the job requirement. As an IT consultant you have chosen to work overseas.

And I don't care how much more you perceive you earn than a pilot mate. I doubt anyone does. It bears no resemblance to the original query
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 9:23 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter
Because by definition a pilot is expected to work overseas, it's part of the job requirement. As an IT consultant you have chosen to work overseas.

And I don't care how much more you perceive you earn than a pilot mate. I doubt anyone does. It bears no resemblance to the original query

"by definition a pilot is expected to work overseas".

just because the plane is in the air it doesnt mean "oveaseas". only if you cross the australian airspace you are technically overseas. If you are flying/piloting a domestic route (like sydney/melbourne) you are still in australia mate.

sorry I am not here to argue with you and apologies for the tone, but people need to know that this law is discrimantory.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 9:35 am
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Default Re: Citizenship working outside Oz

Originally Posted by madankumars
"by definition a pilot is expected to work overseas".

just because the plane is in the air it doesnt mean "oveaseas". only if you cross the australian airspace you are technically overseas. If you are flying/piloting a domestic route (like sydney/melbourne) you are still in australia mate.

sorry I am not here to argue with you and apologies for the tone, but people need to know that this law is discrimantory.
You only find it discriminatory because it affects you. If the shoe were on the other foot and your job was included you wouldn't be complaining.

And yes, you do sound childish.
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