shackybracky

Hi everyone. It's been a while since I was last on here. I seem to remember my last post saying something about being here short term and leaving after a few months of arriving. Well, over three years later and we're still here. For now. My wife is especially missing her family and is keen to go back to the uk his year. So we're trying to figure out our options for citizenship in case we both decide we want to come back in the future, partly because we have just had our first child out here and we would like a way of following her out here if she decides to use her citizenship and move out here permanently, especially if we were too old to apply for returning residency visas.

So, I've been reading the government website and checking dates and calculators.

Dates..we arrived on November 16th 2012. We have only spent less than a month out of the country since then. We would be allowed to apply for citizenship on November 17th 2016 but we are allowed to spend 90 days out of the country prior to applying.

Are we allowed to lodge the citizenship application from the uk if we left Australia within the 90 day period, say August 25th? Obviously we would have to attend a ceremony. Does it have to be in Australia or do ceremonies take place in the uk?

These might be daft questions but I'm trying to work out the best options for our future whilst trying to get my wife back to her family.

Thanks in advance

Kev

Bermudashorts

I don't understand where you are getting August from? If you arrived in November 2012 then the very earliest you could possibly apply is November 2016 - unless of course you had been to Australia before on a validation trip or something?

I also think it is safest to stay until the citizenship is completed. Citizenship is not a prize for sticking out four years, it has a forwards looking criteria too in that the applicant is supposed to have the intention to stay, so leaving before you have it could be problematic.

Personally, I would be expecting to stay until mid 2017 to allow sufficient time for the citizenship to go through. I agree that you definitely should obtain it in view of your citizen daughter.

msmyrtle

I'm pretty sure it's to use up the 90 day absentee allowance, so if they left in August they would still apply in November when they became eligible it would be under the 90 days.

Personally, I would also wait until you had your citizenship to start looking at moving back. I had a friend that took up a job after he had been approved and it was difficult for him to get approval to have a different ceremony location.

Bermudashorts

Ah I got you, it didn't occur to me that somebody might apply three months after permanently leaving the country! I would be amazed if that were approved.

shackybracky

Thanks for the replies.

I realise I'm looking for ways round how it is normally done, if they even exist. There's no way my wife would stay another year to 18 months to get the citizenship done. She missing her family too much and now that we have a daughter she wants her family to see her grow up and cries at the thought of them not seeing the first year of her life. It doesn't help that her parents have just visited for the first time and left a few days ago so emotions are still raw. Neither of us want to close the door on Australia but I think family time is more valuable to her right now than citizenship and wherever that leaves us in the future is just how it will be.

Thanks again.

Bermudashorts

Did you make a validation trip? Or was November 2012 the first time you set foot in Australia?

I really would try to stick it out, perhaps emotions are high at the moment because family have just left and it is Christmas. Extended family missing out on your daughters first year surely has to be preferable to you, the parents, finding yourself unable to live in the same country as your daughter when she is an adult?

There is a parent visa of course, but it is very expensive and if you have more children in the UK you might not be eligible. Also then brothers and sisters will find themselves with different passports and later on in their lives they might want to be together but be unable to do so. If you get citizenship before you leave, all family, including future children will be dual citizens.

Think long term. I know it is hard. I once found myself trapped in Bermuda and realised I had to stay for another 18 months (for reasons I won't bore you with). But I just had to stick it out and it passes and it was eight years ago now.

shackybracky

Thanks Bermudashorts!!

We didn't make any validation trips, just arrived in November 2012 and have been here since apart from one trip back to the uk.

I didnt know about future kids having dual citizenship if we were citizens. And I'd never considered our kids having different passports. If anything it just adds to reasons I already have for staying until we got citizenship. But my wife is feeling the total opposite about staying. I don't think she sees staying as an investment for years to come, more as a loss of her family missing out on their grandaughter and niece, even if it's just one year. I could try and get her to read this but I think it would just upset her.

Pollyana

The issue is - she may be the one to miss out in the future if her own daughter comes back to Australia to raise her own kids, and she (your wife) can't follow her here cos she isn't a citizen. She'll then miss out on her own grandchildren......

Bermudashorts

If your daughter did not already have her citizenship, I would not be advocating that you stay and be unhappy.

But she does have citizenship and I have seen time and time again the pain that it can cause when families have different passports and are unable to reunite in one place. Of course you think it is easy, you all have British passports after all, but daughter might go to Australia when she is in her 20s, meet an Aussie, have Aussie children and be unable to return. The rest of you might want to go over but be unable to.

You can fracture your family be not getting the same citizenships, it might be twenty years before you feel the effect, but it is cooking. As citizens, your future children get dual nationality even if born in UK. Holding a PR visa they won't, unless born in Australia.

Perhaps ask your wife to read the thread in a week or two when normality has returned. Again, I don't think you can hope to return mid year 2016 and secure citizenship from the UK.

shackybracky

Thank you both for the replies.

Again i hadn't imagined the scenario of our daughter raising her own children over here with us not having a way to watch them grow up.

slackbloke

Hi,
You've misunderstood the 90 rule. Irrespective of time out of the country, you cannot apply until at least 4 years (elapsed time) after you first started the qualifying period, which in your case was 16/11/2012.

shackybracky

Hi slackbloke. Thanks for the reply. The initial idea was to leave Australia in August but not apply for citizenship until November, which would be four years after our pr started. But I don't now think that would work anyway.

slackbloke

Right, I see what you're saying. Well you've already met the criteria for a 5 year RRV and you'd still be able apply for that 3 years after leaving (as you'd still meet the 2 years in 5 residency). That would then mean an option of up to 8 years to return. That said, you are only 11 months from applying.....hard though it might be, it gives you so many options for the rest of your life (and your children's).

shackybracky

Thanks slackbloke.

Are the rules of the 5 year rrv the same as a pr visa in that you can stay in the country indefinitely so long as you don't leave but if you do leave, say for a trip to the uk, the five year deadline date kicks in. My thinking is...if we left this may, applied for the rrv in May 2019 but didn't use it until 2024, would we have to stay in Australia for four years with no trips out?

slackbloke

Not sure I understand what you mean. The RRV allows entry to Australia as a PR. If you never leave Australia you never need one, but after the initial expiry of the travel part of your original visa (I'm guessing May 2017), you'll need an RRV to enter Australia.

So, as you suggest, you could leave in May, apply for an RRV in May 2019 and then have until May 2024 to enter Australia. There is no restriction about staying in Australia. If you returned before May 2024 you'd just be a PR same as now.