Michael Hoffman

wmoore <member22399@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


    > This is absolutely true. A friend of mine passed all but one of the
    > required exams before he got a 'real' job. Then again the same arguement
    > could be levelled against a diploma or degree but the likes of the ACS
    > will deem you suitable if you have one with no work experience of
    > any kind, let alone relevant to your nominated occupation.

True that academia also mostly theory driven, although in the course of
your classes you do get more practical hands-on work, be it in assignments
or internships, etc.

My bias against the MCSE (in specific) comes from several years ago, where
I worked in a Unix consulting shop that wanted to expand and gain some MS
partner certification.

The call went out among us dyed-in-the-wool Unix geeks to gain a certain
amount of MCSEs in 2 or 3 weeks(!). In 3 weeks 70 of us had their MCSE -
people who hadn't as much as installed a Windows NT system in their life. I
shoulda gone for it then, for the heck of it, but actually left that
company around that time.

Of course, that also speaks to the mental superiority of Unix folks over
Windows plebs, because this would never happen the other way around. JUST
KIDDING! Put down those pitchforks!

Mike (SCCSE, RHCE, PP-ASEL-IA, <insert more TLAs here>

--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

Michael Hoffman

noodle <member13914@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    >
    > Yes, that was my point. My husband hasn't got an IT degree, and
    > hasn't got the 6 years experience to get him in with his MCSE.
    >

Hello,

Just to clarify, what you mean: your husband *does* have a degree, right? I
ask because I thought you need 4 years of experience then. Or has that
changed?

What I mean is that with a degree, his certs shouldn't matter at all.

Am I misunderstanding you?

Mike



--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

ige

Can you correct my typing if you can.
Thx

wmoore

Like I said, I'm not going to stand in a corner and defend it as such. I take your points but in its defence (contradiction? ) I will say that while the course obviously is about NT / 2000 / 2003 (whatever) is written in a way that the emphasis is on the processes and not which buttons you click. Along the way, I learned a bit of UNIX (yes really) and when I took a job where one of my servers was UNIX, then I had an understanding of what was underneath. So when I figured out the shell commands, the logic of how they worked was already implanted.
I hope this makes sense?

Michael Hoffman

ige <member5233@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    >
    > Can you correct my typing if you can.
    > Thx

If I can send you my hourly rates and bill you, certainly!

Mike

--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

Michael Hoffman

wmoore <member22399@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Like I said, I'm not going to stand in a
    > corner and defend it as such. I take your points but in its defence
    > (contradiction? ) I will say that while the course obviously
    > is about NT / 2000 / 2003 (whatever) is written in a way that the
    > emphasis is on the processes and not which buttons you click. Along the
    > way, I learned a bit of UNIX (yes really) and when I took a job where
    > one of my servers was UNIX, then I had an understanding of what
    > was underneath. So when I figured out the shell commands, the logic of
    > how they worked was already implanted.
    > I hope this makes sense?

It absolutely does. If you learned skills and applied them - or already had
them, before you started on the memorization quest for those MCSE exams,
the cert is a logical culmination to your skillset.

I believe Microsoft had, like most, originally intended it to be such.
Wouldn't be surprised if even they are unhappy with the proliferation. Who
knows?

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/certified.asp

That's a LOT of MCSEs fighting for jobs! Compare that with the CISSP, which
has also been around since the early 90s - and there are 25,000 or so.

Mike

--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

wmoore

I guess it's a bit devil and deep blue sea for them. Of course more MS certified professionals means more recognition (like they need it) but then it also means saturation and apathy. To be honest, it's not even something I make a big thing of, for that reason. I would prefer to be recognised for my 'real world' skills.
In the UK especially, MCSE doesn't warrant a great deal of attention by employers. It seems perhaps more so in Oz from the job adverts I've seen. By the time I get there, my skills will have been ratified by the ACS, which is kudos enough for me and should count for something to a prospective employer.

noodle

Hi Mike

My husband doesn't have any type of degree, and that's why he currently needs 6 years exp instead of the 4 which he already has. Hope you understand me now, I'm not as clever as my husband. Ha ha.

Noodle.

wmoore

Noodle, it doesn't look good. Even if the ACS accepted CCIE on the same level as MCSE (ignoring the previous notes in this thread) then he would still need 6 years.

However, there may be a way yet. The BCS is changing its entry requirements on May 1st (BCS), meaning they will now consider people for professional membership without the academic background. At present, the ACS puts you in Group A if you are a full professional member of the BCS, meaning you only need 4 years experience.

I emailed the ACS to ask if the changes to the BCS would affect this criteria and they told me that at present the BCS has not informed them of the changes so they don't know (bit of a pattern emerging with the ACS here?).

If you PM / email me I will mail the correspondence I've had with BCS / ACS back to you.

Michael Hoffman

noodle <member13914@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > My husband doesn't have any type of degree, and
    >> that's why he currently needs 6 years exp instead of the 4 which he
    >> already has. Hope you understand me now, I'm not as clever as my
    >> husband. Ha ha.

Gotcha now. Hmm, so with 6 years, RPL is also out, I suppose? As he
wouldn't have enough experience post-deeming date. (*)

Mike

(*) I haven't paid much attention whether the whole deeming date issue
still exists or not, ever since I completed my own RPL assessment.

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Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

wmoore

Michael,
I understand that the deeming date does not apply now.

Michael Hoffman

wmoore <member22399@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Michael,
    > I
    > understand that the deeming date does not apply now.

Wouldn't that mean that Noodle's hubby could simply try to go through the
classical RPL and get a positive assessment that way?

Without the loss in years that used to be "gobbled up" by the deeming date,
he should still have enough to then get DIMIA approval/points.

Mike

--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

wmoore

Michael,

I had a PM conversation with Noodle the other day and the problem is that her husband only had 4 years IT experience, so deeming date is irrelevant in his case. Obviously the ACS will need 6 years experience shown plus the MCSE.

Wayne.

Michael Hoffman

wmoore <member22399@british_expats.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    >
    > Originally posted by Michael Hoffman
    >> Wouldn't that mean
    > that Noodle's hubby could simply try to go through the classical RPL and
    > get a positive assessment that way?
    > Michael,
    >
    > I had a PM
    > conversation with Noodle the other day and the problem is that her
    > husband only had 4 years IT experience, so deeming date is irrelevant in
    > his case. Obviously the ACS will need 6 years experience shown plus the
    > MCSE.

Ouch. I somehow thought he *had* 6. Doesn't look good then, definitely a
case to talk to a real specialist, to calculate their chances.

Mike


--
Am I the only one who's noticed that the discovery of the accelerating
expansion of the universe coincides with the discovery that more than half
of email, and rising, is now spam?

ige

Please do send your hourly rates guess u deserve to be PAID