So so close...

Old Jan 20th 2011, 8:41 pm
  #1  
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Default So so close...

Hi everyone,

I’m new to this forum and would be really grateful if anyone can offer me some advice.

My husband has been offered a job in NZ so we applied for work permits for each of us and student visas for our kids. All was going well and eventually this week we heard from an officer advising our application would be reviewed this week. We were thrilled until we received an email saying it's unlikely we'll get our visas as they think my husbands (hopefully) future employer could get a NZ worker to fill this vacancy even though we've proved to them that he's been advertising since last Oct to fill the role.

My husband is a qualified painter and has specialised in paperhanging; the role to be filled is specifically a paperhanging role which doesn’t seem to be part of the curriculum for painters/decorators in NZ. (Paperhanging is available to study as an additional subject to already qualified painters in NZ)
The officer has said there has been labour market tests and this has shown there are painters available in Auckland where we plan on moving to - trying to explain that the role is specifically for a paperhanger is proving very difficult.

We're distraught at the thought of not being able to move; we've tenants for our house arranged, our cars sold, our children enrolled in school, not to mention the cost put into this.

Everything on our side seems to be ok - our family has had the medicals, chest x-rays and police checks and all these were fine so with the job offer we thought everything would work out smoothly enough.
We've been given 2wks to come up with a strong case but we seem to have told them everything we can over the phone. Just wondering if anyone's been through a similar situation and come out with a positive outcome - any help HUGELY appreciated

Or maybe there is another way for us to get over there? Really don’t want to give up at this stage

Thanks again
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Old Jan 20th 2011, 8:59 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

It's very unusual for a tradesman to get a job offer without actually being in NZ. Boots on ground and all that. You say you've enrolled your children into school prior to work visas being issued. Are you in NZ already?
If I may ask. How did you come by this vacancy & what was the interview process.

Very difficult. Painters and decorators are not in shortage here in New Zealand.

My first though is that it is still up to the NZ employer to prove to NZIS that there is no NZ resident or citizen that could do that job. He needs to present a stronger case as to why he would overlook an NZ trained painter and decorator or a possible traineee in favour of an overseas tradesman.

Showing a few ads isn't enough. NZIS look to more than that when applying the Labour Market test through the Dept of Labour & Work and Income.

Originally Posted by NZIS
We conduct labour market tests to determine whether suitably qualified New Zealand workers are available, or could be easily trained to do the work and should be offered the employment rather than an overseas temporary worker.

We may do this to consider an employer’s request to:
  • employ one particular person
    or
  • gain approval in principle to employ workers from overseas.
Our test involves seeking advice from industry representatives and the appropriate New Zealand government agencies to determine current skill shortages. In weighing up the employer’s case, we’ll also seek evidence of their genuine attempt to find New Zealand workers, such as advertising and the use of a recruiting company.

Last edited by BEVS; Jan 20th 2011 at 9:11 pm.
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Old Jan 20th 2011, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

Hi jodi27, Welcome to BE
Sorry I can't really offer any words of wisdom re your immigration / visa / job situation, just wish you luck and hope it gets sorted soon
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Old Jan 20th 2011, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

Hi Bevs,

No we're not in NZ yet - still at home! We'd decided to make the move in October and had done an assessment with an agent. We'd 120 points and were told that our best chance was to get a job offer so my husband sent off his CVs in response to jobs that were advertised, then followed up with phone calls and eventually secured a job offer after an interview over the phone. We thought he'd at least have to go over to look for jobs but he was incredibly lucky.

His employer has trialled other painters for the position too but wasn't happy with their workmanship - apparently there was a lull in paperhanging for the last few years, there aren't many painters over there who specialise in this anymore. Do you know if this would still be in an issue if we were to submit and EOI? Just looking for the quickest route possible but any way would be great!

Thanks MnB for your post - really hope it works out too!
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Old Jan 20th 2011, 11:21 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

Am back ! Couldn't get BE to reload for some reason.

HHmmmmm Jodi .

Both you and the NZ employer have to build a case that there is no NZ certified bod that could do this work. I do wish that the 'agent' you spoke with had warned you that it would need more than just a job offer because the trade isn't on the shortage list.
Out if interest , is the employer a dedicated wall cover, paperhanging company? I note there are some up in Auckland who specialise only in this work. I ask because it could help within the argument.

I went away to NZQA and other places to look at the Painting and Decorating apprenticeship units. As you know , most of the trades here operate 4 year on the tools apprenticeships with distance learning , block coursework and assessments. As you state, paper hanging/wall covering is an optional strand to the apprenticeship.

So, here in NZ paper hanging is a subject one chooses to specialise in. It is not part of the overall apprenticeship . Therefore, there may well be NZ trade certified painters out there but they may not be NZ trade certified paperhangers. This forms part of the argument. Certified paperhangers may be thin on the ground.
Yes -I know you have already stated this to NZIS but the case has to come more from the NZ employer underpinned by paper proof..

You say the employer trialled a few NZ certified tradesmen but that the work didn't meet the standard. Did the employer state this to NZIS on the employers supplementary form. Did he simply fill it in quickly or did he put effort into this with plenty of detail and underpinning proof?

The employer needs to show

All the advertising

Who applied for the position and why they were not acceptable --- It would be particularly helpful if the employer could prove that the tradesmen that came for the work had not done the certified wall hanging course work but had simply picked it up along the way, if you see what I mean.
It would also be helpful if he could show that he interviewed and trialled several tradesmen. The amount that he interviewed and trialled may be equal to the amount of tradesmen shown to be available via the labour market test for that particular area. Are you with me? It's a math thing.

Training - Does he employ apprentices at all? Could he not have simply put a current employee on the certified paperhanging course. Is this a company that does not employ painters for instance because this would strengthen the case as it would show he had no-one that he could put on the certified course.

Has the employer got a glut of work now and for the foreseeable future. More than he could handle and which requires not just someone that could be given immediate training but someone with many years experience who would skilled and quick on the job. One thing against the NZ employer training someone now for the vacancy is the time lapse thing. It's not just about training is it. It's also about work experience & to be deft at the trade skill.

Can the employer show all the above?

You could think to employ the services of an Immigration agent to help with this. I know it can be costly but sometimes , when an application is not straightforward , the Immy Consultant is able to present the case better than you or an NZ employer. It would also take the pressure of the NZ employer who could withdraw the job offer if he felt it was more trouble than it's worth.

You would want one that pays attention to detail and is licensed.
If you want to do that I would suggest Peter Croxson who is based in Christchurch. Not because I have used him or have any link to him. I just know from other peoples experience of this particular consultant that he is reasonable priced , pays attention to small details and has had good results. He makes no false promises either which is good.





Link here to the NZ painting and decorating apprenticeship components for anyone looking in.
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Old Jan 20th 2011, 11:34 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

I meant to add that yes, NZIS will apply the same labour market testing procedure for a residence application.
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Old Jan 23rd 2011, 10:40 am
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Default Re: So so close...

Hi Bevs,

Thanks for your response - I've contacted the agent you recommended so hopefully we should get somewhere soon. Feeling much more positive now

As you said, I think our strongest argument will be that fully qualified painters in NZ aren't necessarily qualified in wall papering as it's an optional subject once painters are qualified, whereas here its compulsory in the trade. Next step is to contact the employer again on Mon and hope he'll help us along. The forms he sent weren't very thorough now that you mention it...! Not going to give up now though so we'll keep at it.

Keep those fingers crossed for us please!

Thanks again for all your help Bevs - I'll keep you updated
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Old Jan 23rd 2011, 11:31 am
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Default Re: So so close...

Hi Jodi,

I have to say I will probably face the same situation as yourself in a few
months. Thanks to Bevs here I agree this is where licenced agents
earn their money and I think we will go the same route.

I wish you luck and please let us all know how you get on. I am wishing the best for you.

Tom
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Old Jan 23rd 2011, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: So so close...

Next step is to contact the employer again on Mon and hope he'll help us along.
I hope so too Jodi. Make it as easy as you can for him to provide the details you require.

Please do stick around to let us know how you get on. the consultant takes up the application and feels you're in with a chance here.
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