Qualification query???????

Old May 18th 2008, 9:09 am
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Unhappy Qualification query???????

Hi. I've been a lurker for a while and know that many of you are extremely knowledgeable in these matters especially BEVS here. Anyway here's our situation:

Our EOI was selected in Mar and this week we have had contact from a visa officer in London querying my OH's qualification.

He has a combined Part 1 & 2 City & Guild in Electrical & Electronic Engineering Competences (course code 2320). Because this is a combined course and does not say part 1 or part 2 on the certificate we got an equivalency cert. from C&G which shows it is a level 3 NVQ. According to the operating manual C&G part 1 & 2 with apprenticeships (which he has) are recognised and do not require NZQA assessment.

However our visa officer has said that it is not recognised because instead of saying "craft studies" the certificate says "competences". This course was completed in the 1990's and since then C&G have changed the course name to Craft Studies - everything else in the course name including the course code etc.. is the same as when we took it.

We have now had to pay for a PAR to be done on this or our EOI will be declined. Will we also have to fork out shed loads to have a full assessment completed all for the sake of one word??? and if so why are we having to pay for a PAR as well - isn't this just a waste of money???

Please note we have not gone via the EWRB as although his qualification is in electrical engineering it was part of a dual apprenticeship in mechanical engineering and this is what he will be looking to work at in NZ (although we might get the registration at a later date) However his highest qualification on paper is in the electrical side.

Any help and advice would be great as if it is likely that a full assessment is required I will start getting the info. together now (although getting the transcripts will also cost more poxy money) I'm just slightly miffed that if you have a degree regardless of what it is in it is recognised, I knew he should have spent three years dossing, instead of trying to learn a trade (only joking for all of you with a degree I'm sure it was a lot of hard work as well), while C&G recognition is extremely specific!!!!

Sorry for the moan but I feel like we are lining the pockets of NZQA for no reason.

Any help and advice much appreciated - or if anyone else fancies a moan feel free.

Thanks
Davvie
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Old May 18th 2008, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Bad luck is what I say.

If the NZIS case officer has asked for a PAR then hopefully this will be an end to it. The PAR should confirm that the certificate is bona fide & meets the required NZIS level. All NZQA have to do is to contact C&G to have them check their records.

The slight concern is that NZQA will stuff up, not do the homework correctly by checking with C&G and then not come back with the required NZIS level. You would then have no choice but to go for a full NZQA assessment.

When you finally get your ITA, blast the buggers with certified copies of the original C&G plus the new equivalent certificate & the PAR. You should also write a precis explaining the changes, exactly as you have done in your post.... this is in case you get a thicko.

What is annoying about this, is the extra cost and time involved. If NZIS would just update their information [and this includes the wording in their operations manual] then both the NZIS officers and Joe Soap would know what is required for a trade qualification.


Have some competences karma in the hope that the NZQA assessor has done their own craft studies !
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Old May 25th 2008, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Hi Davie,
I dont know much about this, but not so long ago I had to get copies of certs that were issued years ago and subsequently lost when moving home.

The new certs for you may have the updated wording.

Worth a try?
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Old May 25th 2008, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Originally Posted by Davvie View Post
Hi. I've been a lurker for a while and know that many of you are extremely knowledgeable in these matters especially BEVS here. Anyway here's our situation:

Our EOI was selected in Mar and this week we have had contact from a visa officer in London querying my OH's qualification.

He has a combined Part 1 & 2 City & Guild in Electrical & Electronic Engineering Competences (course code 2320). Because this is a combined course and does not say part 1 or part 2 on the certificate we got an equivalency cert. from C&G which shows it is a level 3 NVQ. According to the operating manual C&G part 1 & 2 with apprenticeships (which he has) are recognised and do not require NZQA assessment.

However our visa officer has said that it is not recognised because instead of saying "craft studies" the certificate says "competences". This course was completed in the 1990's and since then C&G have changed the course name to Craft Studies - everything else in the course name including the course code etc.. is the same as when we took it.

We have now had to pay for a PAR to be done on this or our EOI will be declined. Will we also have to fork out shed loads to have a full assessment completed all for the sake of one word??? and if so why are we having to pay for a PAR as well - isn't this just a waste of money???

Please note we have not gone via the EWRB as although his qualification is in electrical engineering it was part of a dual apprenticeship in mechanical engineering and this is what he will be looking to work at in NZ (although we might get the registration at a later date) However his highest qualification on paper is in the electrical side.

Any help and advice would be great as if it is likely that a full assessment is required I will start getting the info. together now (although getting the transcripts will also cost more poxy money) I'm just slightly miffed that if you have a degree regardless of what it is in it is recognised, I knew he should have spent three years dossing, instead of trying to learn a trade (only joking for all of you with a degree I'm sure it was a lot of hard work as well), while C&G recognition is extremely specific!!!!

Sorry for the moan but I feel like we are lining the pockets of NZQA for no reason.

Any help and advice much appreciated - or if anyone else fancies a moan feel free.

Thanks
Davvie
Hi,

I've got pretty much the same qualification whilst I was in the Royal Navy, but i put mine in to nzqa prior ot submitting EoI as I knew i'd need a full assessment done any way, it came back with a level 4 electrical engineering all good, but to be an electrician, you've got to go through EWRB as well, at least you've got to be lienced out there.

I think what it boils down to if you want a visa you've got to spend £215 on nzqa, or if you don't want to spend that much, you go no further.

Is it worth £215 to have a new life in nz, if not forget the whole thing and stay in the uk.

sorry to be blunt.

have fun and live the dream

j.j.
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Old May 25th 2008, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Originally Posted by Dave n Ann View Post
Hi Davie,
I dont know much about this, but not so long ago I had to get copies of certs that were issued years ago and subsequently lost when moving home.

The new certs for you may have the updated wording.

Worth a try?
This is a good idea. Karma for that Dave n Ann.

As JJtheFridge states. For any mix of qualifications which don't really match NZIS criteria kfor a listed skilled occupation, an NZQA full assessment can be the way to go.
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Old May 26th 2008, 2:16 am
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Afternoon Davvie

I've spent a bit of time looking at this to try and ascertain where the application falls down. Certainly communications aint all that.

Getting back to basics:-

323211 General Fitter is seen as a skilled occupation by NZIS , so you are perfectly entitled to put in an EOI under the SMC policy.

323211 is not on the Absolute Shortage List so you cannot claim bonus points.

323211 is pinned at Trade Skill Level 3 by ANZSCO and NZIS

C&G Engineering Craft Studies = Level 3 and should not require an NZQA assessment.

My assumption is that C&G Craft Studies matches the UK trade qualification required to be a General Fitter.

--------

Looking at the operations manual , I cannot see why the C&G should not be recognised, particularly as you now have a level 3 PAR.

With the SMC policy the EOI application should match the occupation to the trade qualification you are claiming points for. The NZIS officer would look at the occupation and then match the qualification to the NZIS standards.

Therefore, I do wonder if the confusion doesn't stem back to the EOI application not stating the trade correctly as 323211 General Fitter in the first instance. That the C&G qualification was typed in as 'competences' rather than 'craft studies' has simply added to the confusion at the NZIS end. It may have been better to simply state C&G 1 and 2 , then piled on the evidence once an ITA had arrived.

When you talk with the section manager, make it clear that the trade should be 323211 General Fitter and that it is a level 3 trade. Ask if the application has been amended for you.
Offer to have a full NZQA assessment to further underpin and support your claim for equivalent qualifications in this trade which do satisfy the requirements. However, do stress that the PAR has already shown the level 3 required for General Fitter.
Tell the manager you will be able to supply apprentice papers and full 15 yrs work experience plus the trade qual certs to back up the trade skill.

oh... and be ever so - ever so reasonable and nice . If you want to get their ears to listen then it pays to be the nicest person they've had on the phone all week.

Good luck and let us know how you get on with this.
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Old May 26th 2008, 8:42 am
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the replies.

Dave n Ann - The new certificate does not say either Competences or Craft studies and I have sent a copy to the visa officer showing her this.

JJ - my husband gained this occupation to become an electrical/mechanical fitter not an electrician therefore would not have necessary experience to go through EWRB. We have also offered to go through a full assessment but they have just said the qualification is not recognised and taken the points away and rejected our EOI.

Bevs Here - Thanks for the advice I think you are right, the confusion might come from the error of the wrong occupation code initially, but if only they had said that we would have easily rectified the problem. I already have an email from his manager that provides a detailed description of his job as a pharmaceutical fitter. Anyway I hope when we get chance to put our case before the manager they have a bit of common sense and see that we have a skilled occupation, with recognised work experience and a basic trade qualification that is of a skill level that matches the occupation level.

If all else fails we could try plan b, c & d once I've worked them out.

Thanks for all of the advice

Jenny
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Old May 26th 2008, 10:16 am
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Default Re: Qualification query???????

Originally Posted by Davvie View Post
Hi Guys,

Thank you for the replies.

Dave n Ann - The new certificate does not say either Competences or Craft studies and I have sent a copy to the visa officer showing her this.

JJ - my husband gained this occupation to become an electrical/mechanical fitter not an electrician therefore would not have necessary experience to go through EWRB. We have also offered to go through a full assessment but they have just said the qualification is not recognised and taken the points away and rejected our EOI.

Bevs Here - Thanks for the advice I think you are right, the confusion might come from the error of the wrong occupation code initially, but if only they had said that we would have easily rectified the problem. I already have an email from his manager that provides a detailed description of his job as a pharmaceutical fitter. Anyway I hope when we get chance to put our case before the manager they have a bit of common sense and see that we have a skilled occupation, with recognised work experience and a basic trade qualification that is of a skill level that matches the occupation level.

If all else fails we could try plan b, c & d once I've worked them out.

Thanks for all of the advice

Jenny
Hi Again,

Where i got a job offer, the official paper work for nzis has just been worded differently, as the employer accepting my fridge qualls are sufficent for the job in question, surely having a correctly worded job offer will do to get required points

Good luck, hope it all works out ok.

j.j.
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