Partner's English Proficiency?

Old May 10th 2008, 4:24 am
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Default Partner's English Proficiency?

I was going through the points indicator again and I noticed this:

"Would your partner have the required English proficiency to qualify as a principal applicant? Yes No"

Does that mean my wife has to have 6.5 in each section of IELTS even though she is not the principal applicant?

Is there anything else she needs to fulfill for us to be able to claim bonus point? She does have a recognized basic qualification, but no work experience.

Thanks for your time.
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Old May 10th 2008, 6:33 am
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Hi there, I am in the same situation so hopefully I can help you a little. I am also the secondary applicant and a non native English speaker.

Are you applying as a Skilled Migrant?

If you are, these are the conditions as per the immigration.gov.nz pages (found here http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra.../default.htm):

Non-principal applicants

This is anyone else on the application aged 16 and over. We accept the following proof of ability:

* You have a recognised qualification from a course taught entirely in English.

* You are in ongoing skilled employment in New Zealand, and have been for at least 12 months.

* You have sufficient schooling in English:
- primary and at least three years' secondary schooling,
- five years' secondary schooling, or
- tertiary course of at least three years' length.

* You have certain secondary certificates with passes in English classes:
- General Certificate of Education (GCE) 'A' levels from Britain or Singapore,
- Cambridge Certificate of Proficiency in English,
- Hong Kong Advanced Level Examinations (HKALE) including Use of English,
- University of Cambridge in collaboration with University of Malaysia, General Certificate of English (GCE) 'A' levels,
- International Baccalaureate, full diploma in English Medium,
- STPM 920 (Malaysia), with A or B pass in English Literature,
- South African Matriculation Certificate, with minimum D pass in English (Higher Grade),
- South African Senior Certificate, with minimum D pass in English (Higher Grade), endorsed as 'matriculation exempt', or
- New Zealand tertiary entrance qualification gained on completing year 13/seventh form.

* You have a recent IELTS certificate with a band score of 5 or better in the General or Academic modules.


In all cases, we may still require an IELTS certificate.

If, as a non-principal applicant, you do not meet these standards, you can still apply if you pre-purchase ESOL training, which will let you improve your English after you arrive.


You say your wife has a recognised basic qualification, so if it falls into any of the above categories, that might be enough. However I would draw your attention to the last but one sentence "In all cases, we may still require an IELTS certificate".

Basically I think this means your case office may decide they want further proof of her English proficiency, say if they do not deem the qualification to be recent enough. But this is just my hypothesis!

If she decides to take the IELTS exam, as you can see above she just needs an overall score of 5 (not in every section of the exam, but as an average score), not 6.5, this is for the main applicant.

In any case, I'm afraid you won't be able to claim any points for her language abilities, I scored 8.5 out of a maximum possible score of 9 and they gave me zilch! I couldn't claim any points for my university degree either, in fact there wasn't a section for me to indicate what level of education I had, which I thought was a bit unfair.

Anyway, hope that helps, and lots of luck with your application!
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Old May 10th 2008, 4:04 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Water Lily,

Thank you so much for your answer to my question. Yes, I am applying as a skilled migrant. I am a non native English speaker as well, but my post secondary education was done in the US and it seems like that will fulfill the English requirements for me.

The reason I asked my original question is that if you look at this question again and look at the last 5 words:

Would your partner have the required English proficiency to qualify as a principal applicant?

It says, "qualify as a principal applicant". And the English requirement for a principal applicant is 6.5 in IELTS unless you can statify that requirement other ways. My wife has the basic recognized qualification, but it was not entirely taught in English.

I do not understand why they did not give you points for your English and degree as you have scored much more than they have asked for. I was getting 130 after claiming points for her degree and English assuming she will score at least 6.5 in IELTS or 5.0 depending on what they are looking for. If I cannot claim that points, I may NOT qualify. I have not looked at the EOI forms yet, but the points indicator gives the point for my wife too.

Wish you all the best as well and hope to get some more advice in the future.
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Old May 12th 2008, 11:26 am
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Hmmm.... you're right, that is contradictory information. One set of instructions says the secondary applicant needs a score of 5 and the other set says 6.5. Either we're not understand this right, or they've made a mistake. I can only suggest you send them an email, including a link to both pages, and ask them which one is right!

Actually, the reason why I couldn't claim any points for my degree is that it is not in the List of Recognised Qualifications. It was granted by a Spanish university and Spain is not one of the countries on the list. Racists!! :curse: Ah well.

So when you calculated your score, did you actually check that list and make sure your wife's qualification would be "recognised"? Otherwise you cannot claim points for it.

I don't understand how you were getting points for her "presumed" IELTS, it didn't work for us at all. Didn't make any difference when we did the Points Indicator "Quick Check", and it still didn't make any difference when we filled out the EOI and I entered the examination reference and the score etc. Which I think it's a bit unfair as it seems like I have no advantage over someone who can't speak any English. At least not as far as awarding points is concerned. In practice, I guess I do have an advantage as it probably means our application has a much better chance of being accepted... we'll see.

Good luck!!
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Old May 14th 2008, 3:22 am
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

That's very interesting that Spain is not even on the list. I think you can go through NZQA to recognize your degree, but I do not see any need to do so as you already have your EOI selected.

Yes, I went through the link and pick the country, Thailand, and the university my wife got her degree from was listed there. I hope that is all NZIS needs.

I started filling out online EOI and learned few things. I think there was NO points for IELTS, but the point for a recognize degree is related to IELTS score. Basically, if my wife does not have 6.5 in IELTS, we will not get any points for her degree, which is 20 points. It seems like we are in the same boat--you have the IELTS score more than they needed, but the country you got your degree from is not even listed and my wife has the country and degree listed, but do not have the IELTS score. I am even worried if she will be able to score 6.5 in IELTS as she has hard time understanding British accents and she never had formal English language training even though she has been living in the US for past 7 years.

I am even thinking about applying without her IELTS, but it gives me only 105 in points indicator test and it gives me 115 in EOI. I am not sure what is going on, but I found something. It is giving me 65 points for my BS and MS degrees, but I thought I was supposed to get only 55. Anyway, not sure if it is a good idea to submit my EOI with 105 or even 115.

How does this work? Once your EOI is selected, you are pretty much guaranteed that you will receive an ITA, right? I understand that it can take a while, but you will eventually receive it, right?
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Old May 16th 2008, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Hello again

You only need 100 points to go in the pool, we submitted with 115 and got selected straight away, so if you also get 115 then you'll be in the same group as us.

We got selected 6 weeks ago. Someone who got selected the same day as us received their ITA this week, but they had 125 points. They go through the EOIs in order, i.e. the more points the quicker it gets looked at obviously. So next it'll be people with 120 points, then us. Hopefully that means we might get our ITA in a couple of weeks. Someone else with the same points as us got their ITA 8 weeks after being selected so I'm hoping they haven't fallen behind schedule

I can't confirm whether "EOI selected" definitely means you WILL get an ITA, I'm afraid, I don't really know what the conditions are, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed!!

As for your wife's level of English and taking the IELTS test, I'm guessing she needn't worry about British accents, if you're in the US she will have American examiners and the listening module will be in American English too. Of course I can't guarantee this, but maybe she can enquire in one of the centres offering the test? Also, I believe most centres also offer an IELTS preparation course, so she could prepare for the test before taking it, but then I suppose this would delay your application, so I guess it all depends on how quickly you want to submit your EOI and whether you think she'll be able to get away with her degree as proof that her English is of a good enough standard.

I would make some enquiries if I were you though. If your EOI is selected and then you get rejected at the ITA stage because the immigration officer is not satisfied with her level of English, that could be quite costly! It costs money to submit your ITA, and you also have to take into account the cost of having your medical tests and police certificates done, etc, it does add up!

Perhaps what you can do is submit your EOI without claiming points for her, and in the meantime she can start preparing for the IELTS test. Whilst your EOI is being assessed or indeed whilst your ITA is waiting to be processed, she can hopefully attend and pass the test, and then you could send the results in and ask for the certificate to be added to your application.

Just a thought! I'm no expert in the process but I believe you could do that. Of course it'd be better for you if she passed her IELTS test first so you could claim more points on the EOI, that would mean better chances of getting selected quickly, but like I said before it all depends on how soon you want to submit it and whether you want to take the risk....

Good luck whatever you decide!
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Old May 17th 2008, 3:42 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Thanks Water Lily.

I guess I am going to have to wait a while to submit my EOI. It would be nice to have it submitted sooner, but I am not in hurry and I would like to have my wife's IELTS done and submit it with EOI, so if she scores more than 6.5, her degree will be recognized means more points.

The sad part is though there is no training center for IELTS (there are plenty for TOEFL and GRE/GMAT) where we live and the nearest testing center is 7 hours driving distance one-way. I guess, we have got to sacrifice something to be able to live in NZ.

Thanks again.
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Old May 18th 2008, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

hi wanttomove,
sorry to jump into your question but im also stuck on that one. we were all born in the uk and all speak english as our 1st and only language. what exactly do i put on the form as i cant seem to make head nor tail of it
thanks
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Old May 18th 2008, 7:51 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by kira View Post
hi wanttomove,
sorry to jump into your question but im also stuck on that one. we were all born in the uk and all speak english as our 1st and only language. what exactly do i put on the form as i cant seem to make head nor tail of it
thanks
No problem. As far as I know, you do not have to take IELTS. So, while you are filling out your EOI, it will give you a page where it asks how you full-fill the English requirement and you have 4 or 5 choices and you need to pick the one that matches best for your situation. I do not remember if there is an option like 'native speaker'. If it is there, then you pick that option. I think IELTS page will show next if you pick an option that has IELTS related question and you need to fill out necessary information like IELTS form number, score, and date etc. In your case, you should not have to worry about IELTS and if your partner (secondary applicant) has a degree, you that should give you 20 points.

I hope that is what you are trying to figure out. Please let me know if my answer makes sense. I can go back to look at my uncomplete EOI to verify the steps and options.
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Old May 18th 2008, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by kira View Post
hi wanttomove,
sorry to jump into your question but im also stuck on that one. we were all born in the uk and all speak english as our 1st and only language. what exactly do i put on the form as i cant seem to make head nor tail of it
thanks

EOI
English proficiency


D1. Please indicate how you meet the minimum standard of English, as defined in the Guide under English Language Requirements in the section Summary of Terms.
You would select

" Otherwise meet the minimum standard, as defined in the Guide "
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Old May 18th 2008, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by Want2Move View Post

How does this work? Once your EOI is selected, you are pretty much guaranteed that you will receive an ITA, right? I understand that it can take a while, but you will eventually receive it, right?
Sadly no. It is not guaranteed.

Once the EOI has been picked from the pool , the information on it will undergo verification and checking. If everything is to the NZIS case officers satisfaction, then an ITA is sent out. If it is not to the NZIS case officers satisfaction, then they will contact the person outlining their concerns . The applicant will be given some time to address the issues raised. If the applicant can satisify NZIS about the issues , then an ITA will be sent out. If not, the EOI will be declined.

Having read your above posts, I think you are taking a wise route by striving to attain a positive IELTS test for your wife. Points means prizes !

Last edited by BEVS; May 18th 2008 at 8:15 pm.
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Old May 18th 2008, 9:26 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by kira
hi wanttomove,
sorry to jump into your question but im also stuck on that one. we were all born in the uk and all speak english as our 1st and only language. what exactly do i put on the form as i cant seem to make head nor tail of it
Hi Kira , to follow on from what Bevs said, if you pick that option and move onto the next section then a box will come up and you can write in that. I put something about being born in the UK to English speaking parents and that all my education up to degree level was in English. I thought that covered it all!
Sue
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Old May 18th 2008, 11:47 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post
Sadly no. It is not guaranteed.
...
Having read your above posts, I think you are taking a wise route by striving to attain a positive IELTS test for your wife. Points means prizes !
BEVS here, Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain how EOI to ITA process works.

Now, I am definitely going to wait until my wife has her IELTS score to submit my EOI.
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Old May 21st 2008, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by Want2Move View Post
Thanks Water Lily.

I guess I am going to have to wait a while to submit my EOI. It would be nice to have it submitted sooner, but I am not in hurry and I would like to have my wife's IELTS done and submit it with EOI, so if she scores more than 6.5, her degree will be recognized means more points.

The sad part is though there is no training center for IELTS (there are plenty for TOEFL and GRE/GMAT) where we live and the nearest testing center is 7 hours driving distance one-way. I guess, we have got to sacrifice something to be able to live in NZ.

Thanks again.
7 hours!!!! my goodness, that is a loooooong drive!

Can you get hold of some materials perhaps, so she could prepare at home? Maybe your local library can help?

Best of luck with everything, if there's anything I can help you with regarding the test - if you want to know a little bit more about it - please feel free to send me a private message.

Maria
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Old May 22nd 2008, 4:09 am
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Default Re: Partner's English Proficiency?

Originally Posted by Water Lily View Post
7 hours!!!! my goodness, that is a loooooong drive!

Can you get hold of some materials perhaps, so she could prepare at home? Maybe your local library can help?

Best of luck with everything, if there's anything I can help you with regarding the test - if you want to know a little bit more about it - please feel free to send me a private message.

Maria
Thanks. I am trying to get hold of some study materials for her soon. At the moment she is studying whatever she can find over the Internet and YouTube.

I will PM you if we need more info about the test.

A quick question, which one is easier, the academic one OR the general one? Looks like NZIS accepts both. I want my wife to go for the easier one. Thanks.
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