Parents rights to move with children
 

Hello all!

Newbie here. I've been lurking for a bit and as you seem full of useful info, I thought I'd try this one out on you.

My OH and I would love to immigrate to NZ (currently in process of NZQA assessments - so just started really). My question is, is a solicitor's letter stating my rights to remove my children from the UK (according to UK law) proof enough for an immigration officer?

The children are 10 and 11 and no longer have contact with their natural father. I wasn't married to him nor does he have Parental Responsibility. There were no court orders regarding visits or residency so it's very difficult for me to provide legal documents for NZIS when they don't exist!

The only other thing I have is a Step Parent Parental Responsibility agreement, signed by myself and hubby (also signed by courts) - just to show there is no one else with PR.

Has anyone ever gone through anything similar?

Any help would be much appreciated! :)

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Hi. I have children aged 10 and 12. They have not seen their real dad for about 3 years. He pays no maintenance, avoids the CSA like the plague and has absolutely no contact - his choice. I have remarried, 2 years now, and we are also trying to emigrate. I took legal advice and because I was married to the children's dad when they were born he automatically has parental responsibility so I have to have his permission to withdraw them from the jurisdiction. The way I understood it from my solicitor was that if we had not been married he would not have had parental responsibility and therefore under UK law I would not need his permission.
I should think that as that is what the UK law says you should be fine with the papers you already have.
Why not email NZIS from their website and ask? I did over a different matter and got a very helpful unbiased reply back by email within 3 days.
Hope this helps. Good luck!! :)
Mandie & Mark

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Thanks for your reply Mandie, it's probably the only thing thats really worrying me. We don't want to go down the whole emigration route and have everything in place then come across that stumbling block - because I can't contact their father (contact was stopped for children's safety), they haven't had contact with him since Aug 2005.

I've emailed NZIS - so we'll just have to wait and see what they say. Someone else told me I might need a Statutory Declaration - which is a letter produced by a solicitor to state my current legal status and rights according to UK law ( might set us back £400 though :( )

Anyway, I hope it goes well for you, good luck and thanks again! :)

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

You're welcome :D They might accept the documents you already have. Fingers crossed for you!!
We have to go to court to get ours sorted, might cost £5k :mad: :mad:
just to get a piece of paper from the bloke that doesn't want to see them or have anything to do with them anyway!! You gotta love the English legal system!!
Let me know how you get on. Good luck :thumbup:

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Ditto! :)

P.s. I have heard of two cases of Removal From Jurisdiction, where the mother wanted to emigrate and the natural father was objecting. In both cases they went to court and the mother won - the judge then asked if they wanted to transfer solicitor's fee's to the respondent (i.e. the dad), one lady said no because she just wanted a line drawn under the whole debacle but the other lady said yes! :lol: so you never know ;)

(I got both cases from the yourrights.org.uk website (Liberty), as far as family law was concerned they were very helpful)

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Thanks!!:thumbup: That's helped put my mind at rest. It's all stressful enough and this is, as you'll know, one hassle we could do without. But you've given me hope! :D I'm hoping that as he can't even mail a birthday card, he won't bother to attend court (he is, as far as I know, 300 miles away anyway) and that it will be a really quick, painless process - if he doesn't object :unsure: Thanks again, Mandie

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

we had the same issue and all it took was a statutory declaration from a solicitor (£94.00) however, make sure that you state all the facts as we had three attempts until our case officer was satisfied!!!!

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

I just got a reply from the Skilled Migrant team (in London) - they said yes, I would need a stat dec for sure. They did add they were very surprised at it possibly costing £400 and said I should def shop around, however looking at Puppypower's costing they were right!

(Quote)
we had the same issue and all it took was a statutory declaration from a solicitor (£94.00) however, make sure that you state all the facts as we had three attempts until our case officer was satisfied!!!!

Hi Puppypower,

What sort of things did you have to put into your stat dec? Did they want the entire contact history? Blimey, mine's going to be about 50 pages long then.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

this is a copy of ours. hope this helps!


I, !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! (formerly !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!) of !!!!!!!!!!!! in the county of !!!!!, do SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE AS FOLLOWS

1.I am the mother of !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! who was born !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! on the * of February 1995 – a copy of my daughters birth certificate is annexed hereto marked “TSP 1”.
2.By a change of name deed dated the 31st of January 1996, I changed my daughters surname from !!!!!!!!!! to !!!!!!!!!! – a copy of this deed marked “TSP 2” is annexed hereto.
3.At the time of !!!!!!!!!!’s birth I was not married to her father, !!!!!!!!!!. I have no idea of his present whereabouts. There has been no contact between !!!!!!!!!! and our daughter !!!!!!!!!! since June 1995. !!!!!!!!!!’s father has never paid any maintenance for !!!!!!!!!!’s upkeep and has never made any attempt to see her nor has he ever claimed any parental responsibility for !!!!!!!!!!.
4.In respect of my said daughter !!!!!!!!!!, I confirm that there is no court order regarding Custody, Residence, Parental Responsibility or of any other kind in existence nor to the best of my knowledge information and belief has any application for such ever been made.
5. I am not able to provide a statutory declaration from a member of standing in the community to confirm the fact that I was not married to !!!!!!!!!!, as I have not known such a person for more than five years.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

You are an absolute diamond, thats really helpful - thank you Puppypower! :thumbup:

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

I have also started this process and it dosen't appear to be relevant whether or not PR is involved. It is simply a factor for consideration. It sticks inmy throat that I have to go through all of this as my story is similar to many others.

Goodluck everyone with your quest - I think that is a polite way of putting it. Karma to all of you.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Sorry to drag this up again, but I am now going through the same thing.

I sent my application away last week and have had it all returned. In order to proceed I need evidence of a court order or a Stat. Dec. from the father.

This causes undue pressures on the chils, as as far as she knows I am her father and have been since she was 2 (now 13). The father has had no contact and this opens a whole can of worms, as they say....

The father was not married at the time of birth and under scottish law, has no legal rights to the child.

Does immigration actually know what effect this has on families?

Anyway I hope you sorted out your issue and are now organised?

All the Best

Garry

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

It's probably time for you to find a good immigration lawyer. If New Zealand is a signatory to the Hague Convention they are obliged to respect United Kingdom child custody law.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Thanks JAJ....
This would probably be the best way forward, but unfortunately I don't have time to go through the courts, etc. I have had a job offer which is only open until 8th July. I need to confirm to them by then that our visa's are in place.

I think the quickest way forward is to track down the father and see if he will sign a Stat. Dec. I don't know if a letter from a family lawyer detailing Scottish Law will suffice?
The only thing is, I think this is going to cause a lot of family upset, especially for my wife and daughter.

Tnx.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Once again. You can read the Hague Convention for yourself at:
http://hcch.e-vision.nl/index_en.php...ns.text&cid=24

Article 1 (b) states that the objective of the Convention is to : "... ensure that rights of custody and of access under the law of one Contracting State are effectively respected in the other Contracting States."

Removing a child from the UK where biological parent has no parental rights under UK law does not breach the Hague Convention. See Article 3.

You may also wish to note that Article 5 excludes children aged 16 or over from the scope of the Convention.

If you search through the NZIS website (Operations Manual) you may find a reference to respecting the child custody laws of other countries.


It can cause all kinds of problems if you approach a parent who has no parental rights and start asking for permission that he has no right to give or refuse!

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

And a very quick search has uncovered the following, from section 72-6 (e) of the Operations Manual:

Where an immigration or visa officer is satisfied that:

i by virtue of local law, the New Zealand citizen or resident parent has the statutory right to custody of the child, and

ii it is not possible or required under that local law to obtain individualised legal documents to verify that custodial right, the New Zealand citizen or resident parent will be considered by NZIS to have the right to remove the child from its country of residence.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...rationsmanual/

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

JAJ,

Thanks for this info. this could answer my query. I will email immigration quoting these references and see if this will address their request.

Kindest Regards

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

I had big issues with this, but I understand that if you were NOT married to the childrens father at the time of their birth, he has NO parental responsibilty and you can leave Uk without his permission.
So sounds like you are safe.
I had a call from the head of Immigration over this after I contacted the Immigration Minister (2003). I was told that all his staff had now been 'fully trained' in understanding the UK Children's Act 1991.
BTW If you had been married, the courts would ALWAYS favour what is best for the children and their age and maturity would play a part in the courts decision anyway.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

The above clauses that JAJ mentions were finally added to the NZIS rules in June 2004!

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

I thought I would add that I spoke to an immigration officer at the London Expo. I gave her all our details and asked her specifically - would a Statutory Declaration signed by myself, my husband (step father with PR) and our solicitor to explain, in legal terms, our situation - and she said yes, this would be fine.

Re: Parents rights to move with children
 

Puppypower, You are a life saver!!!!!!!

I've emailed a similar copy of your decleration to immigration and they have said that this would be suitable for the application to proceed....

Many, Many Thanks

Garry