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NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ ( moved to Immy )

NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ ( moved to Immy )

Old May 14th 2009, 12:46 pm
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Question NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ ( moved to Immy )

I came here via the Wiki article about NZ citizenship by descent. Does anyone have further information about the "little known clause" by which children under 16 with a parent who is a citizen by descent are exempt from residence requirements for citizenship once they are "settled" in NZ? As I was told by the helpline that they would only be eligible after 3 years?

If I can get PR for the children and move to NZ, assuming the Wiki is correct and they can get citiznship straight away and then get NZ passports, are we then required to stay living in NZ for a minimum period of time?

Also, with getting the children PR, all the information I can find says that the NZ citizen parent needs to already be resident in NZ before the children can apply for PR - but I can't go and live in NZ leaving my young children in the UK, how does that work? I was told by the helpline it wasn't a problem and I should just read the form, but the website says:
"We must also see evidence that parents are actually residing in New Zealand"

Thank you very much for any help, my head hurts reading all the documents online, and the helpline just confused me more
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Old May 15th 2009, 12:59 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by Fimbles View Post
I came here via the Wiki article about NZ citizenship by descent. Does anyone have further information about the "little known clause" by which children under 16 with a parent who is a citizen by descent are exempt from residence requirements for citizenship once they are "settled" in NZ? As I was told by the helpline that they would only be eligible after 3 years?
Never ask a helpline for advice!

The clause is "little known" because even helplines don't know about it. But it should be clear if you read that another member (bourbon-biscuit) did exactly the same thing:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462452 (start at post #14)

also see http://www.citizenship.govt.nz
It's in the operations manual.

It's also 5 years for citizenship normally, since 2005, not 3 (another helpline mistake).

If I can get PR for the children and move to NZ, assuming the Wiki is correct and they can get citiznship straight away and then get NZ passports, are we then required to stay living in NZ for a minimum period of time?
No minimum time. But I expect the Citizenship Office will want to see evidence that the family is genuinely settled in New Zealand, not just visiting.

If you subsequently decide to settle elsewhere, citizenship is not withdrawn.


Also, with getting the children PR, all the information I can find says that the NZ citizen parent needs to already be resident in NZ before the children can apply for PR - but I can't go and live in NZ leaving my young children in the UK, how does that work? I was told by the helpline it wasn't a problem and I should just read the form, but the website says:
"We must also see evidence that parents are actually residing in New Zealand"

Thank you very much for any help, my head hurts reading all the documents online, and the helpline just confused me more
Are you looking at the right visa category? If you have a spouse, children would normally be included as dependents on that visa application, not in their own right.

New Zealanders overseas can sponsor spouses, as far as I know.
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Old May 15th 2009, 9:12 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Hi

We came to NZ early 2007. Partner was (is) a NZ citizen by descent and last generation to get it that way. The kids and I entered NZ on the partnership visa and thanks to JAJ's insistence that they were entitled to citizenship because we were living in NZ (my understanding and that of my partner's family was that they were not), they were granted full citizenship in 2008 before we left. We're actually returning to NZ (I have the IRRV so can re-enter NZ) so hopefully the day will come when I become a citizen too. The partnership visa was straightforward and granted in a few weeks from everything being received, so the VISA aspect of our immigration was very straightforward
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Old May 15th 2009, 9:14 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Fimbles- re-reading your post it sounds as though you are a single parent NZ citizen looking to return to NZ with your UK citizen kids- am I right?
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Old May 15th 2009, 10:33 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Thank you so much for your reply JAJ

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Never ask a helpline for advice!

I think you're right there! It's all making more sense now I've read the operations manual on the citizenship website, I was looking at the one on the immigration website!


Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
No minimum time. But I expect the Citizenship Office will want to see evidence that the family is genuinely settled in New Zealand, not just visiting.

If you subsequently decide to settle elsewhere, citizenship is not withdrawn.
OK that's reassuring. So would renting a house, enrolling kids in school etc count as 'settled'? If DH can't get a job in NZ we'd have to move on elsewhere, but I do want to get the citizenship for the children sorted out if possible. Do you think spending 6-12 months in NZ would be long enough? Of course we might all love it and want to stay forever but I like to keep options open!


Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Are you looking at the right visa category? If you have a spouse, children would normally be included as dependents on that visa application, not in their own right.

New Zealanders overseas can sponsor spouses, as far as I know.
This is where I was really confused, because I wasn't looking at spouse visas just dependent children one. As DH would rather stay here (UK) or go and work in the middle east, he doesn't think he'll be able to get work in NZ (very specialised IT work). But probably the best thing would be to apply for the whole family to go, then once we're settled there he can go off and work elsewhere in the world if he needs to.

Thank you for making it all much clearer
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Old May 15th 2009, 10:36 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit View Post
Fimbles- re-reading your post it sounds as though you are a single parent NZ citizen looking to return to NZ with your UK citizen kids- am I right?
Hi, thanks for your posts, makes things much clearer for me! No I'm not a single parent but DH doesn't think he'll easily find work in NZ so we were considering me taking the children on my own and him staying in the UK. But now I think it makes more sense for us to all go at first. Will get started on the visa application asap!

Cheers
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Old May 15th 2009, 11:47 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by Fimbles View Post
Hi, thanks for your posts, makes things much clearer for me! No I'm not a single parent but DH doesn't think he'll easily find work in NZ so we were considering me taking the children on my own and him staying in the UK. But now I think it makes more sense for us to all go at first. Will get started on the visa application asap!

Cheers
IF you are a NZ citizen, then can't your children just go there and live there anyway?

Thats what I have always been told and vice versa. My daughter has an English parent, and a NZ parent and she can liv en either country without doing much. Is that not correct?
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Old May 15th 2009, 11:57 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by bananalana View Post
IF you are a NZ citizen, then can't your children just go there and live there anyway?

Thats what I have always been told and vice versa. My daughter has an English parent, and a NZ parent and she can liv en either country without doing much. Is that not correct?
Not unless the child is a New Zealand citizen!

Of course child can be sponsored for residence (if not a citizen) but only while dependent, usually.

If parent is a New Zealand citizen by descent then child born outside NZ is not automatically a New Zealander.

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/New_Ze...hip_by_Descent
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Old May 15th 2009, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by Fimbles View Post
Hi, thanks for your posts, makes things much clearer for me! No I'm not a single parent but DH doesn't think he'll easily find work in NZ so we were considering me taking the children on my own and him staying in the UK. But now I think it makes more sense for us to all go at first. Will get started on the visa application asap!

Cheers
The partner visa was really straightforward and quick. Just get the police certs and health stuff done asap- we sent it all in together. It makes total sense to al go together- your partner might find a job that is acceptable to him for at least a while and after two years he'll probably qualify for a Indefinite Resident Return Visa, which is almost as good as citizenship so all of you will be able to come and go without the need for VISA applications. My husband had citizenship by descent, which couldn't be passed down to our kids but once settled in NZ they were given full citizenship so their children will have citizenship too
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Old May 16th 2009, 1:28 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit View Post
My husband had citizenship by descent, which couldn't be passed down to our kids but once settled in NZ they were given full citizenship so their children will have citizenship too
If the NZ citizen (by descent) parent lives in NZ for 5 years, it is possible (and advisable) for the parent to "upgrade" to grant of NZ citizenship (full NZ citizenship).

This means that if he or she subsequently leaves NZ and has more children born outside NZ, the children will be eligible for NZ citizenship by descent.
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Old May 17th 2009, 10:58 am
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Default Re: NZ citizen by descent taking UK children to NZ

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
If the NZ citizen (by descent) parent lives in NZ for 5 years, it is possible (and advisable) for the parent to "upgrade" to grant of NZ citizenship (full NZ citizenship).

This means that if he or she subsequently leaves NZ and has more children born outside NZ, the children will be eligible for NZ citizenship by descent.
Thanks JAJ- will pass on to my partner.
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