Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Old Oct 7th 2014, 8:02 am
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Default Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Hi all,
my wife and me are considering the idea to move to NZ (not as an exclusive destination, rather as one of the 2-3 possibilities we are taking into consideration at the moment).

And here is where I get confused

What has to be the first step? To look for a job or to apply for visa?
In other words, do I need a job to apply for visa, or do I need my visa in order to be an eligible candidate to get a job?

Thanks
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Originally Posted by Ugo51 View Post
do I need a job to apply for visa, or do I need my visa in order to be an eligible candidate to get a job?

Thanks
Yes in a nutshell.

you may not need a job offer if you can get over 140 on the points calculator https://www.immigration.govt.nz/pointsindicator/

My points total is lower in the Expression of Interest than in the Points calculator - Immigration NZ Knowledgebase
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 8:09 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Originally Posted by MrsFychan View Post
Yes to the first or second statement?

I assume you mean I need a job to apply for a visa, am I right?
(unless I score 140points or above)
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

you need to get over 140 to apply for a visa without a job offer. other than that you need to have over 100 then a job offer, but the job offer has to fit certain criteria's to be able to obtain a successful application, other visa's have other criteria. You need a visa to be able to work.

Last edited by MrsFychan; Oct 7th 2014 at 9:33 am.
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 10:07 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Originally Posted by MrsFychan View Post
you need to get over 140 to apply for a visa without a job offer. other than that you need to have over 100 then a job offer, but the job offer has to fit certain criteria's to be able to obtain a successful application, other visa's have other criteria. You need a visa to be able to work.
Thanks

I will start by checking what my score is although it's not immediate to understand whether I can be included as a skilled worker or not so the result can vary quite substantially.
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 10:28 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Well, the score looks to be quite good, as it's always above 100 even though I don't have a qualification nor a job offer in future growth areas. That's a start.
Does it mean I could theoretically apply for a visa even without having a job?

I would not move without having a job first, but maybe if I had a visa beforehand it would be easier to find employment?
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Hello,

The only visa I can think of that you can gain without having a job offer is an application under the Skilled Migrant Category for residency.

If you have over 100 points then you can submit an EOI and it will go into the fortnightly draw. However the only EOIs that have been selected recently [as in months-years] are the following:
Those with 140 points or more - whether they include a job offer or not, and
Those with 100 points or more and include points for a job offer.

There is little point in submitting an EOI unless you fit into either of those categories as you won't be selected and your EOI will be removed from the pool after 6 months. You'll waste your money...
Very occasionally there will be a draw including those with 135 points and 15 points for work experience in an area of absolute shortage but this is not something to rely on.

How have you got over 100 points without a qualification or points for a job offer?
Also what job do you do, you can check whether it is classed as skilled and to what level on the NZ immi website.

So yes, theoretically you can apply for a visa without a job offer but there is often no real chance of the application going any further. Unfortunately you are correct in thinking it is easier to get a job offer with a visa in place, most NZ employers seem to not know how the visa system works and often request an applicant has a visa before applying for a job. Catch 22

P
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 6:11 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Thanks Persephone, very helpful.
I will now try to understand a bit better the procedure to submit an EOI although, as you pointed out, I better not do it before/unless I have a job offer.

Well, I guess that my score is all down to the fact I'm under 30 and with higher education.
Also my wife has a level 7 edcation I think, which helps.
That's all I have and it gives me 100.
(or maybe I just clicked the wrong buttons )

I don't really have a qualification in an area of immediate or long term shortage. I do have an MSc in Biomedical Science, but I never worked in the field because I got my PhD instead.

I'm now thinking this: does all this apply also if I want to stay in NZ temporarily? Say 2-3 years? Would be easier to get a temporary visa?
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Old Oct 7th 2014, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

I misread your previous post as you not having any qualifications at all, sorry!
Your points score makes more sense now.

A few points:
-You can only gain points in a future growth area if you have a job offer.
-The long term skills shortage list is the only one that gets you points, immediate and Canterbury do not. [not relevant to you but others may read this!]
-Any qualifications you have must be recognised here: Appendix 3 - List of Qualifications Exempt from Assessment if not on the list then they will need to be assessed by NZQA in order to claim points. This includes your wife's qualification as well. And you can only claim points for one qualification each.

A temporary visa will require you getting a job offer first, there are none that you can apply for without one. If you are not on any of the Skills Shortage Lists then any employer offering you a job will have to prove that no NZer can do that job. If you're in a highly skilled occupation then I would imagine that is easier to prove
The points total has nothing to do with a temporary aka Essential Skills work visa. With a work visa, the one with a job offer applies for it and the partner then applies for an open work visa for the same length of time.

The only other visa you could look at is the Work to Residence visa*. This is still job offer first but you get a 30 month work visa and you can convert this to residency after you've worked for 2 years. You're not on the LTSSL so you would have to look at the Talent [accredited employer] stream. You would need a job for at least 2 years with an employer who is accredited with NZ immigration [the employer has to apply for this in advance]. The job would have to be fulltime and have a salary of >$55,000pa.

*That is unless you dump the wife, start living with a NZer and apply via partnership....


It looks like you'll need a job offer and then take things from there.

P

Last edited by Persephone; Oct 7th 2014 at 6:45 pm.
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Old Oct 8th 2014, 6:03 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
I misread your previous post as you not having any qualifications at all, sorry!
Your points score makes more sense now.

A few points:
-You can only gain points in a future growth area if you have a job offer.
-The long term skills shortage list is the only one that gets you points, immediate and Canterbury do not. [not relevant to you but others may read this!]
-Any qualifications you have must be recognised here: Appendix 3 - List of Qualifications Exempt from Assessment if not on the list then they will need to be assessed by NZQA in order to claim points. This includes your wife's qualification as well. And you can only claim points for one qualification each.

A temporary visa will require you getting a job offer first, there are none that you can apply for without one. If you are not on any of the Skills Shortage Lists then any employer offering you a job will have to prove that no NZer can do that job. If you're in a highly skilled occupation then I would imagine that is easier to prove
The points total has nothing to do with a temporary aka Essential Skills work visa. With a work visa, the one with a job offer applies for it and the partner then applies for an open work visa for the same length of time.

The only other visa you could look at is the Work to Residence visa*. This is still job offer first but you get a 30 month work visa and you can convert this to residency after you've worked for 2 years. You're not on the LTSSL so you would have to look at the Talent [accredited employer] stream. You would need a job for at least 2 years with an employer who is accredited with NZ immigration [the employer has to apply for this in advance]. The job would have to be fulltime and have a salary of >$55,000pa.

*That is unless you dump the wife, start living with a NZer and apply via partnership....


It looks like you'll need a job offer and then take things from there.

P
Aww, so sad the emoticon of the dumped wife
Anyway, no, that's not a plan

Ok, I think this is all I need to know for the moment, although I'm sure I will come up with other questions soon enough.

My qualification is recognized (level 10), my wife unfortunately it isn't because she didn't get her Hons
That's a bummer, although we kinda knew that I will be the pulling tractor (at least I can use my PhD for something useful ) when it comes to get a visa and she will tag along.
Or maybe I will be the one to

The temporary job visa looks very very interesting.
To be honest that's exactly the amount of time we're looking to stay away, i.e. the time necessary to achieve some results on the job while in the meanwhile check the country.

We're very much undecided where to go, and basically I will be running this set of question in the Australia and Canada forum as well.
What I'm saying is that I don't exclude that NZ might become our home, but it's ok to stay there temporarily at the beginning because there is a chance we will want to move away at some point and try somewhere else


It looks in any case as if I need to start looking for a job.
Do you know what is the time scale of the whole process of getting a visa after findng the job?
We are looking to move no earlier that April 2015. Time to start?
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Old Oct 8th 2014, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

As anticipated I'm here with few more questions.

What would be the advantage, if any, to apply for a temporary visa if the requirements are the same as if I wanted to stay permanently?
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Old Oct 8th 2014, 2:40 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

My understanding is that a temporary work visa allows you to move out to NZ quickly to take up any job offer you receive as applying for other, permanent visas can take some months and not many people will hold a job for you while you sort it all out.

The slight risk is that, if you go out on a temporary visa, you run the risk of being turned down for permanent residency and having to come back. From what I'm told it's rare for that to happen but it may do if you have anything other than very straightforward good health and meet all other criteria easily.
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Old Oct 8th 2014, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Hazelnut has pretty much covered it [in a 'nutshell']

Temp visas are a lot cheaper even though you would still need to do medicals if planning on staying >1year. These can be reused for up to 36months if you wanted to apply for residency later. You are also reliant on it being renewed to stay in NZ, however this is probably not an issue if you're only looking for a couple of years.

The only other issue is if you stayed on a temp visa for up to 2 years and then applied for residency hoping to keep it. Your first resident visa will have travel conditions for two years basically requiring you to retain some link with NZ [commonly staying for >184days in each of the two years though there are other options]. Once you have done that you can get a PRV which means you retain residency however long you stay outside NZ and whatever you do.
It gets a bit longwinded but what I'm trying to say is that if you decide you want residency and you get it then you can't then just leave NZ and retain it.
Not easy to explain simply

I'm sure the wife's relieved
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Old Oct 8th 2014, 3:03 pm
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

As for when to start looking for work, hard to say as it depends on how in demand you are. Some employers will be willing to wait until April 2015, some won't. Wouldn't hurt to send off a few CVs to likely employers and see what happens though.

I've worked for 4 employers in NZ, all gained through sending out CVs rather than applying to job adverts. I do however have a limited number of possible workplaces so it's fairly easy for me to do this...

In terms of getting a temp visa: some on here have mentioned WTR visas taking 5 days or so. Work visas up to 25 days Tips and processing times
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Old Oct 9th 2014, 6:01 am
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Default Re: Moving to NZ - what comes first?

Wow, thanks!

Really nice and comprehensive answers. Good even for a slow-learner like me

It sound like the temporary visa has my name written all over it. I will have to look a bit better into the risk of not getting it renewed in case we wanted to stay permanently, but oter than that it seems the best option for us.

I don't think that staying more than 184 days/year would be a problem. We would be both have a job or, if only one has, the other will be looking for, so it's more likely we are not going to leave at all for the first two years
(our families are not going to be happy to hear that!).


The tips about sending Cvs is very helpful. I would have thought the system was more similar to the UK's rather than the US'.
Persephone, may I ask what field are you working in?
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