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Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Old May 21st 2012, 4:24 pm
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Default Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Hi there,
I am due to arrive in Auckland in September with my husband who is a kiwi and my two children who are 2 and 4, I am a Brit and will be travelling on a holiday visa with a view to getting a work visa when I get there. I am just wanting some advice if it doesnt work out in the next 2 years and I do want to come home but my husband doesnt am I stuck there. My children were born in the UK and have British passports with NZ citizenship documents. I am not sure to safeguard myself if I need family lawyer or immigration lawyer. I just dont want to be in an impossible position and what I can do to safeguard myself. Lorna
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Old May 23rd 2012, 9:30 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Originally Posted by LornaBee View Post
Hi there,
I am due to arrive in Auckland in September with my husband who is a kiwi and my two children who are 2 and 4, I am a Brit and will be travelling on a holiday visa with a view to getting a work visa when I get there. I am just wanting some advice if it doesnt work out in the next 2 years and I do want to come home but my husband doesnt am I stuck there. My children were born in the UK and have British passports with NZ citizenship documents. I am not sure to safeguard myself if I need family lawyer or immigration lawyer. I just dont want to be in an impossible position and what I can do to safeguard myself. Lorna
You can't "safeguard" yourself against that eventuality.

Once the children are "habitually living" in a country then consent of both/al parents/guardians is required for them to leave that country, irrespective of citizenship.

The Hague Convention applies (to which both NZ and UK are signed up), which states the children must be returned to the country in which they habitually live for the court in that country to determine what happens next. If still in that country you should seek court guidance before removing them without express consent of the other parent/guardian(s).

Removing them without consent is taken to be abduction, not trivial at all.

It of course applies both ways, your partner requires your consent to remove them from the UK, again it doesn't matter that they are NZ citizens, it is their country of habitual residence that matters. Once in NZ the nature of housing (buy, rental term), whether the children are in school etc become indicators of "habitual living".
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Old May 23rd 2012, 9:55 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Tell me to mind my own business but won't you get a family category visa because you are married to a New Zealander ? I'm married to a kiwi and I've got a family category visa & PR which means I'm legally entitled to work in New Zealand. I don't need any other work visa. So I don't understand your holiday visa/work visa remark.

Before we left the UK, a friend of ours asked, 'what if you don't like it ?' I replied, 'how will I know if I don't like it ?' Basically, do I chuck it all in if a pan boils dry when we're living in New Zealand ? What has to go wrong and for how long for me not to like it ? We had to ride the highs and lows of life in Britain. We are riding the highs and low of life here in NZ.

I've been looking for a job since we came to Wanganui last June However, we're in to deep to seriously consider moving anytime soon. So, I better keep putting the effort into keeping a positive mental attitude.

Do you seriously think he will let you return to Britain with his kids if you can't settle ? In which case you WILL be in an impossible situation. He might just be horribly sentimental for NZ (it happens) and wanting his children to grow up like he grew up. I'm assuming he grew up in New Zealand. Ask him outright, 'do you want your (our) children to be British or New Zealanders ? He will be pro-New Zealand education to the point of being anti-British school education. Maybe it's the lure of shoes not being mandatory. I don't know which school year they teach them to shoot ducks and other wildlife.

Last edited by Snap Shot; May 23rd 2012 at 10:05 am.
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Old May 23rd 2012, 10:53 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

I am not going for family category visa as I am not sure if I want residency yet, this is a trial for a couple of years to see if I like it and we all settle? Also wanted to save on costs as it was about £1700 in the uk and for a work visa about $300. So there is nothing I can do what if I said this was like a working holiday and the intention was to give it two years and then I could return with the children with or without him, what if the UK if where we reside and where we will go back to? I did speak t a UK notary public who suggested doing like a pre nuptial agreement type document but not sure if that will stand up in NZ court. I am not sure how it will go but just dont want to be stuck that would be my worst nightmare.
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Old May 24th 2012, 12:11 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

Well, good luck is all I can say. Does your husband see New Zealand or Britain as home ? I really shouldn't say this but you are going to come seriously unstuck and the reality is you can see it coming. Already you are talking in terms of a pre-nup or the Hague Convention. For Christ's sake go with your gut instinct. How honest is your husband being ? Or you for that matter. I never wanted children, my husband is of the same mind. Good job really, 'cause having children would have meant even more emotional mess. Grandparents on either side of the globe ? Spare me. I accept plenty do it though.

I don't recall my family category visa costing that much but it was a good few years ago now. Basically I got one prior to my visit to NZ in 1997 for his sister's wedding. It wasn't necessary but my husand wanted me to have one so we got our paperwork together. He then had a huge row with his sister shortly after our return to the UK after her wedding (go figure ?). I vowed to never set foot in New Zeland ever again and was totally indifferent to my family category visa expiring. Time and circumstance then went by, like it always does and in 2006 we started making plans to live in New Zealand. He had made it up with his sister by then. He held out the olive branch despite the row being her fault, but that's the way it seems to go in his family. This required getting my family category visa renewed which I was sceptical about as so much time had elapsed. To my suprise we got it ! The admin fee was modest. I've got my Returning Resident's Visa and I'll apply for indefinate PR next February when I've been here 2 years. It doesn't mean I or we will never leave.

Is your husband aware that his marriage might die on foreign shores ? I wondered what my kiwi husband's priorities were for living in NZ. He seemed to be motivated by DB Export Dry, watching live televised rugby and going skiing at the weekend. I don't drink beer, I'm not interested in rugby and I don't ski.

Last edited by Snap Shot; May 24th 2012 at 12:23 am.
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Old May 25th 2012, 12:57 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

this post makes me sad.
If you or your husband decide it isn't for you wouldn't one or the other of you want to do what is best for the whole family.
Why does it seem to be that you would have to give up on your marriage if you don't like living in NZ?

sorry if I have taken this post the wrong way
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Old May 25th 2012, 3:31 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

I agree Mrs Fychan. I've been puzzling on the OP's first post for a while now.

There doesn't seem to be any trust in the relationship if the OP feels this way before even leaving.Where is the caring, sharing family unity?

It would make no difference what visa LornaBee uses, the welfare of the children still comes first. Part of that welfare would be where the children were habitually living and where both parents are.

If this is currently the UK, then those children may not leave the UK without the consent of both parents .
If they all come to live in NZ & I don't mean a holiday, I mean to live ,then the same applies.

If LornaBee thinks that her partner/husband intends to use the children to force her to remain in NZ should she not like the place, then she should not go to NZ & certainly not give permission for her children to come here at all.
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Old May 25th 2012, 9:12 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

My husband has lived in the UK since 1997 and we are going over this September. I have never lived away from the UK and I dont know how I am going to feel about leaving my family behind as I speak to them everyday. It is also probably going to be a massive culture shock as I have lived in London for 15 years. I am willing to give it 100% but surely there must be other people who are in the same position and think the same thing. There is nothing to feel sad about and that is just insulting I am doing this for my family but if my kids dont settle and I dont like the school then I want the option to return and set up home closer to my Mum if needed. I dont know how my husband will feel about being in NZ again as he left it when he was 25 and he is now 40. I think we will leave it at that.

Last edited by LornaBee; May 25th 2012 at 9:20 am.
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Old May 25th 2012, 10:30 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

my post was not meant to insult, just from your first post on this thread I personally couldn't make out why you would think you would have to leave your husband if you didn't want to stay.
I came over here in January on the back of my husband being offered a job and neither of us had been to NZ. We made the decision that at this time of our life it would be better for the whole family. Our outlook atm is to stay, the shortest period of, 5years to enable the kids to get citizenship which will give them more options in their lives. We have not said this will be our forever home as you never know what is round the corner but it will be a family decision if and when we need to make one and it will be taken on what is best for the whole family.
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Old May 25th 2012, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

What is insulting. We can only go on what you have written , your reservations & concerns & respond to exactly that.

I am willing to give it 100% but surely there must be other people who are in the same position and think the same thing.
You know . I have been around these boards for 10 years or more and no, I have not ever read of someone 2nd guessing in this way.

If you don't settle in NZ but your husband does not want to leave then the courts will look to your very young kids and what is in their best interest.That may be here or there. You can't insure against that which is what your first post was looking for .
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Old May 25th 2012, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Immigration question re returning to the UK alone with children

OK thanks for your advice.
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