Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
#46
Banned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Spoonguy, There is no severe Labour shortage maybe in the Fruit Picking sector but certainly not in the Tourism sector.
When I raised this post it was to do with how a large employer my wife and I had worked for along with several other people had not renewed our contracts this year and told us basically at the last minute. Leaving us all to search for little work in the support town.
Work that the employer and others had with ease given to WHVs displacing the Local work force creating a local unemployment even though this figure is massaged by the fact my wife was able to get Part time employment. Our household income was severly impaired by that but meantime we see Temporary residents doing our jobs we needed to live in a community.
The result of that will be people who like myself give life to a community especially the Volunteer Fire Brigade may have to travel further afield for employment. That effect is the community suffers if there is a emergency (Road Accident, Fire etc) the cover is not there.
Before you say why dont you have a paid fire service? Yet another issue you will not understand and have no knowledge about.
Rural communities like my own are dieing and will die if the population of the town just becomes a migratory flock in for the season comprising of just WHVs. This impact will be felt in a time of crisis when no one has the local knowledge to deal with a incident.
Think I am exagerating? Our town area has over 75% of the houses Vacant used as holiday homes. We no longer have a Petrol Station , the Dairy has closed and the Post Office has shut that in the last 5 years. On a 9-5 weekday chances of getting more than 2 of us out on the Fire Appliance is slim at night/weekends we can get easily 10 people. Its 15 minutes or more for a another crew from elsewhere to back us up. Our nearest large town has a medical crisis with a shortage of medical staff.
We are one of the lucky areas but still severly under recruited for this reason.
What good is a WHV going to be to a community service like that? From that prospective WHVs are creating a skills shortage.
Bring people with real life skills into the area dont shut out the ones that have the skills and are being discarded by temporary residents. We dont need them they are Tourists, Tourists spend money into the economy. The cycle continue but you need permanant residence to give a community life. Easy to not understand living in a city.
When I raised this post it was to do with how a large employer my wife and I had worked for along with several other people had not renewed our contracts this year and told us basically at the last minute. Leaving us all to search for little work in the support town.
Work that the employer and others had with ease given to WHVs displacing the Local work force creating a local unemployment even though this figure is massaged by the fact my wife was able to get Part time employment. Our household income was severly impaired by that but meantime we see Temporary residents doing our jobs we needed to live in a community.
The result of that will be people who like myself give life to a community especially the Volunteer Fire Brigade may have to travel further afield for employment. That effect is the community suffers if there is a emergency (Road Accident, Fire etc) the cover is not there.
Before you say why dont you have a paid fire service? Yet another issue you will not understand and have no knowledge about.
Rural communities like my own are dieing and will die if the population of the town just becomes a migratory flock in for the season comprising of just WHVs. This impact will be felt in a time of crisis when no one has the local knowledge to deal with a incident.
Think I am exagerating? Our town area has over 75% of the houses Vacant used as holiday homes. We no longer have a Petrol Station , the Dairy has closed and the Post Office has shut that in the last 5 years. On a 9-5 weekday chances of getting more than 2 of us out on the Fire Appliance is slim at night/weekends we can get easily 10 people. Its 15 minutes or more for a another crew from elsewhere to back us up. Our nearest large town has a medical crisis with a shortage of medical staff.
We are one of the lucky areas but still severly under recruited for this reason.
What good is a WHV going to be to a community service like that? From that prospective WHVs are creating a skills shortage.
Bring people with real life skills into the area dont shut out the ones that have the skills and are being discarded by temporary residents. We dont need them they are Tourists, Tourists spend money into the economy. The cycle continue but you need permanant residence to give a community life. Easy to not understand living in a city.
#47
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
From the link you posted....
"This is no longer a seasonal issue," Oldershaw said. "Queenstown has quite rightly positioned itself as a year-round visitor experience and as such it requires a full staffing capacity to match that experience. I am aware of a few smaller tourism ventures in the area that have been forced to substantially reduce their trading hours due to some severe labor shortages."
As far as the volunteer fire brigade I am perfectly aware of it. I have spent a lot of time in NZ; I am not ignorant to the country, the politics or visa situations. I just don’t agree that WHVs given to UK citizens are a problem for the NZ economy.
WHV focus mainly on low skilled jobs in NZ. While WHV to the UK tend to fill skilled jobs, they come to London often staying longer with additional visas and bring back money to NZ to start their life. It’s what every young Kiwi in my office is doing. Reduce the visas for UK nationals in NZ and the UK may do the same, seriously impacting a way of life for many young New Zealanders.
I’ve been headhunted by for a job in NZ because of my skill set; I’ll be contributing significantly to the economy when I head back over. I have to deal with hiring people in NZ for jobs in NZ; I have done for some time. I have to consider my department’s finances; it’s not as black and white as you make out. I don’t think you can understand until you are responsible for other people’s jobs.
"This is no longer a seasonal issue," Oldershaw said. "Queenstown has quite rightly positioned itself as a year-round visitor experience and as such it requires a full staffing capacity to match that experience. I am aware of a few smaller tourism ventures in the area that have been forced to substantially reduce their trading hours due to some severe labor shortages."
As far as the volunteer fire brigade I am perfectly aware of it. I have spent a lot of time in NZ; I am not ignorant to the country, the politics or visa situations. I just don’t agree that WHVs given to UK citizens are a problem for the NZ economy.
WHV focus mainly on low skilled jobs in NZ. While WHV to the UK tend to fill skilled jobs, they come to London often staying longer with additional visas and bring back money to NZ to start their life. It’s what every young Kiwi in my office is doing. Reduce the visas for UK nationals in NZ and the UK may do the same, seriously impacting a way of life for many young New Zealanders.
I’ve been headhunted by for a job in NZ because of my skill set; I’ll be contributing significantly to the economy when I head back over. I have to deal with hiring people in NZ for jobs in NZ; I have done for some time. I have to consider my department’s finances; it’s not as black and white as you make out. I don’t think you can understand until you are responsible for other people’s jobs.
#48
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
I suppose the same sentiments that Colin is feeling are felt by poorer folks in the UK as eastern europeans are "taking" "their" jobs and pushing them further into the underclass. My only real contact with this in the UK was in the food processing and growing industry where lots of graduates and other young people from Poland and the Baltic States (mainly) were coming to the UK to work for (what the locals would call) peanuts. This is all great for businesses looking to shave costs but at the end of the days does a large scale WHV scheme really work on the cost/benefit analysis? Not sure and not convinced that the Immigration people are either.
#49
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
By all accounts (again from listening to the radio reports) quite a few people would say that fewer tourists in Queenstown would be a good thing (in the same way that the residents of Prague and Vilnius aren't taken with that sort of tourism).
I suppose the same sentiments that Colin is feeling are felt by poorer folks in the UK as eastern europeans are "taking" "their" jobs and pushing them further into the underclass. My only real contact with this in the UK was in the food processing and growing industry where lots of graduates and other young people from Poland and the Baltic States (mainly) were coming to the UK to work for (what the locals would call) peanuts. This is all great for businesses looking to shave costs but at the end of the days does a large scale WHV scheme really work on the cost/benefit analysis? Not sure and not convinced that the Immigration people are either.
I suppose the same sentiments that Colin is feeling are felt by poorer folks in the UK as eastern europeans are "taking" "their" jobs and pushing them further into the underclass. My only real contact with this in the UK was in the food processing and growing industry where lots of graduates and other young people from Poland and the Baltic States (mainly) were coming to the UK to work for (what the locals would call) peanuts. This is all great for businesses looking to shave costs but at the end of the days does a large scale WHV scheme really work on the cost/benefit analysis? Not sure and not convinced that the Immigration people are either.
I understand the situation, my home town was mainly agricultural and dock work and has seen a massive influx of eastern Europeans. The difference is that they stayed in the town which is something Colin feels makes him different to people on WHVs. If anything Colin is in fact the equivalent of these eastern Europeans.
#50
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
I understand the situation, my home town was mainly agricultural and dock work and has seen a massive influx of eastern Europeans. The difference is that they stayed in the town which is something Colin feels makes him different to people on WHVs. If anything Colin is in fact the equivalent of these eastern Europeans.
Last edited by lardyl; Aug 14th 2007 at 10:51 am.
#51
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
I don’t really see your point about having less in common with eastern Europeans than with commonwealth members. It’s amazing how much you find you have in common with other Europeans when you work mainly with Kiwis. Its really just about language barriers.
I understand Colin’s point completely I just disagree on a few key issues. The first being you should have PR and be competing for the same jobs as people on WHV. The typically unskilled nature of these jobs is why they usually ask people who want longer term visa to bring a skill set that is in short supply.
It’s not a new thing for non residents to fill these cheep labour roles in resort towns; it’s rarely been sustainable to raise a family on seasonal work. I grew up in a seaside town and have had to deal with the same issues from my first job. The resorts would most likely have to close all together if their operating costs were increased by all the overheads permanent staff entails.
I completely agree people on WHV should have restrictions, but working on resorts is where they are typically intended to end up.
I understand Colin’s point completely I just disagree on a few key issues. The first being you should have PR and be competing for the same jobs as people on WHV. The typically unskilled nature of these jobs is why they usually ask people who want longer term visa to bring a skill set that is in short supply.
It’s not a new thing for non residents to fill these cheep labour roles in resort towns; it’s rarely been sustainable to raise a family on seasonal work. I grew up in a seaside town and have had to deal with the same issues from my first job. The resorts would most likely have to close all together if their operating costs were increased by all the overheads permanent staff entails.
I completely agree people on WHV should have restrictions, but working on resorts is where they are typically intended to end up.
#52
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
A little worrying if they are I may struggle to find work.
#53
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
I have more in common with most Kiwis than with other "European" immigrants into NZ (apart from Brits) irrespective of language (only met a very few Eastern Europeans around mainly at schools - dont work with any, they have no way to integrate into our work as their systems are so far away from the Uk/NZ model and they would be unlikely to get work - not all immigrants are IT bods, tradespeople or recruitment consultants). However, I do have more friends that are Pomms, Aussies and South Africans than Kiwis - that's more a state of mind I think as us ex-Pats seem to stick together and the Kiwis keep themselves to themselves, bit like some communities in the UK esp. in the 1960s and 70s.
As far as the Commonwealth goes, those immigrants in the 40s, 50s and 60s had more culturally in common with the UK than you might imagine if you didn't live through some of that period. Much of their schooling, sport and government structures were based on the British model and hence more readily understandable/integrateable than those from continental Europe, especially the east.
Suppose we will agree to differ on the finer points of that one, but I take your point on the casual work although some of the seasonal work in the resorts must have been done by locals and much of the support work that was year-round was done by locals.
#54
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Is this true then about WHV and low skill jobs in NZ as I am coming over on a WHV (last option only) But I am a analytical chemist by trade and hope to get a position on a whv in a LAB. Are they truly only used for low skilled positions?
A little worrying if they are I may struggle to find work.
A little worrying if they are I may struggle to find work.
There isnt much work at the ESR labs either, they are awash with MSc qualified forensic bods and very few vacancies to fill, although there was "analytical chemistry" on one of the old local skill shortage lists a few years ago as I recall, (being a former forensic chemist and looking at that to suppliment MrsLs fantastic job opportunities). I can put out some feelers next week if you like, LL
#55
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Is this true then about WHV and low skill jobs in NZ as I am coming over on a WHV (last option only) But I am a analytical chemist by trade and hope to get a position on a whv in a LAB. Are they truly only used for low skilled positions?
A little worrying if they are I may struggle to find work.
A little worrying if they are I may struggle to find work.
#56
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Maybe what’s needed then is a subsidy to employers in these declining small towns when they employ locals, to offset the cost saving from hiring people on WHVs? A tax break if a certain percentage of employees are permanently employed locals?
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Not sure how much lab work there is about - you do realise that NZ doesnt do a great deal of chemistry and manufacturing? The only large scale chemical plant (a methanol one) was closed a few years ago, although we are now adding this very stuff to bio-fuels - hohum.....probably imported from Oz.
There isnt much work at the ESR labs either, they are awash with MSc qualified forensic bods and very few vacancies to fill, although there was "analytical chemistry" on one of the old local skill shortage lists a few years ago as I recall, (being a former forensic chemist and looking at that to suppliment MrsLs fantastic job opportunities). I can put out some feelers next week if you like, LL
There isnt much work at the ESR labs either, they are awash with MSc qualified forensic bods and very few vacancies to fill, although there was "analytical chemistry" on one of the old local skill shortage lists a few years ago as I recall, (being a former forensic chemist and looking at that to suppliment MrsLs fantastic job opportunities). I can put out some feelers next week if you like, LL
To be honest the UK doesn't have that much forensic lab work either it is extremly difficult to get into.
Russ
and no I have no intention of adding the letter before the "[" to the LAB word
#58
Banned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
Really need to be careful with referring to a area as a RESORT, resort implies it is solely set up just as a holiday centre geared towards a particular interest.
This is not the case.
Today i spoke to someone with a connection to the Chamber of Commerce and also has concerns on how the hospitality industry which is strong in our area is employing to many Itinerant staff.
His reason of concern is that this trend is having a adverse effect on the population of the area which in turn impacts on other business and growth in the area.
Anyways waste of time continuing discussing this with you guys seems the wheels are turning anyways and I just highlighted the problem and our experiance.
What you say wont make any differance weather you lose out is another topic.
This is not the case.
Today i spoke to someone with a connection to the Chamber of Commerce and also has concerns on how the hospitality industry which is strong in our area is employing to many Itinerant staff.
His reason of concern is that this trend is having a adverse effect on the population of the area which in turn impacts on other business and growth in the area.
Anyways waste of time continuing discussing this with you guys seems the wheels are turning anyways and I just highlighted the problem and our experiance.
What you say wont make any differance weather you lose out is another topic.
#60
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Coming to NZ on a Working Visa
hey this is a UK keyboard - still having probs with my Kiwi one at work - the main problem is the truncated <return> key.....grrr.....
However, after 7 months here my son of 5 now refers to "the dick" rather than the deck so maybe we have arrived?????????