Children British Citizen by descent

Old Sep 27th 2010, 9:24 pm
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Question Children British Citizen by descent

Hi there
I have children born in NZ in the last 5 years who are British by descent (both parents are British Citizens); they are all over the age of 12 months.

We are considering going back to the UK permanently but have not registered the children's births with the high commission or anything else. They have NZ passports and NZ citizenship.

Please can someone tell me if I need to register them before I can apply for UK passports for the children? I can't work out if I need to do this and pay the extra fees or if there is no need as they are entitled to citizenship by descent.

Also, the other thing we could do is sort it all out when we get to the UK. Is that any easier or would it be harder?

I would be truly glad of advice from anyone who has been through this.
Thanks so much for your help.
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Old Sep 28th 2010, 1:56 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
Hi there
I have children born in NZ in the last 5 years who are British by descent (both parents are British Citizens); they are all over the age of 12 months.
Both parents British citizens? That's not enough to make them British. Was at least one parent born or naturalised in the United Kingdom?

Normal way to prove British citizenship in this situation is to get them British passports. Consular birth registration is not available in NZ.

They should also have New Zealand passports.
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Old Sep 28th 2010, 3:10 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Hi Thanks for your reply.

Both parents of the children were born and raised in the UK and I am pretty sure from what I've read, that the kids are British by descent. (although as an aside, our parents were not British so maybe that's another can of worms?)

The kids have NZ passports already but what I'm concerned about is if we want to move back to UK permanently, do we need to sort out British passports / citizenship and eligibility of the children before we go or can I just leave it until we're there?

Can I simply apply for British passports for the children from NZ or do I need this registration that you say is not available in NZ? I thought it was but my head is spinning so I could be wrong.

Has anyone actually gone through this already and can perhaps tell me how you went about it?
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Old Sep 28th 2010, 6:54 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
Hi Thanks for your reply.

Both parents of the children were born and raised in the UK and I am pretty sure from what I've read, that the kids are British by descent. (although as an aside, our parents were not British so maybe that's another can of worms?)

The kids have NZ passports already but what I'm concerned about is if we want to move back to UK permanently, do we need to sort out British passports / citizenship and eligibility of the children before we go or can I just leave it until we're there?

Can I simply apply for British passports for the children from NZ or do I need this registration that you say is not available in NZ? I thought it was but my head is spinning so I could be wrong.

Has anyone actually gone through this already and can perhaps tell me how you went about it?
Hi, this isn't probably any help, but my situation was the opposite to yours with both children born in the UK with a Kiwi father and British mother. We applied for New Zealand citizenship by decent for the children whilst in the UK. Once we had received these we applied for their kiwi passports. Quite straightforward - only had to send both ours and the childrens birth certificates in with the application forms. Maybe its a similar process in NZ. Good luck!!
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Old Sep 28th 2010, 7:05 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

How did YOU get your British Citizenship?

Were you born in the UK before 1983 to a British Father who was married to your Mother at the time of YOUR birth?

If yes (to all 3 bits of that question) then you have the right to pass on your British Citizenship as you are a British Citizen, by birth, so your children (no matter where they are born in the world), will be British Citizens By Descent.

You will not need to register your children with the High Commission to get passports, but you will have to send in all original documents.

As your children were born only 5 years ago you will need to send in:
1. YOUR full British birth cert
2. YOUR Fathers British birth cert
3. YOUR PARENTS marriage cert
4. Each childs NZ birth cert

*EDIT* Just seen the bit that you say your parents weren't British...that complicates matters...you'll have to give me some more info now, like when were you born (year is enough) and what nationality were your parents.

Last edited by cleverchap; Sep 28th 2010 at 7:10 am. Reason: additional info
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Old Sep 28th 2010, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by cleverchap View Post
How did YOU get your British Citizenship?

Were you born in the UK before 1983 to a British Father who was married to your Mother at the time of YOUR birth?

If yes (to all 3 bits of that question) then you have the right to pass on your British Citizenship as you are a British Citizen, by birth, so your children (no matter where they are born in the world), will be British Citizens By Descent.

You will not need to register your children with the High Commission to get passports, but you will have to send in all original documents.

As your children were born only 5 years ago you will need to send in:
1. YOUR full British birth cert
2. YOUR Fathers British birth cert
3. YOUR PARENTS marriage cert
4. Each childs NZ birth cert

*EDIT* Just seen the bit that you say your parents weren't British...that complicates matters...you'll have to give me some more info now, like when were you born (year is enough) and what nationality were your parents.
Hi there
Thanks for trying to help me.
My parents were both Irish citizens but living in the UK since maybe the '50s and I was born in the '70s. Hopefully that won't be an issue? I have no idea how to get hold of their marriage certificates etc. Gosh I thought this was going to be a straightforward issue until I started reading the info. I now realise the importance of keeping track of all original documentation!

Thanks again, much appreciate any advice people can give.
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Old Oct 1st 2010, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by cleverchap View Post
How did YOU get your British Citizenship?

Were you born in the UK before 1983 to a British Father who was married to your Mother at the time of YOUR birth?

If yes (to all 3 bits of that question) then you have the right to pass on your British Citizenship as you are a British Citizen, by birth, so your children (no matter where they are born in the world), will be British Citizens By Descent.

You will not need to register your children with the High Commission to get passports, but you will have to send in all original documents.

As your children were born only 5 years ago you will need to send in:
1. YOUR full British birth cert
2. YOUR Fathers British birth cert
3. YOUR PARENTS marriage cert
4. Each childs NZ birth cert

*EDIT* Just seen the bit that you say your parents weren't British...that complicates matters...you'll have to give me some more info now, like when were you born (year is enough) and what nationality were your parents.

All misleading and wrong information.

Anyone born in the United Kingdom before 1983 is a British citizen (otherwise than by descent). Except diplomats. End of discussion.
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Old Oct 1st 2010, 12:43 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
Hi there
Thanks for trying to help me.
My parents were both Irish citizens but living in the UK since maybe the '50s and I was born in the '70s. Hopefully that won't be an issue? I have no idea how to get hold of their marriage certificates etc. Gosh I thought this was going to be a straightforward issue until I started reading the info. I now realise the importance of keeping track of all original documentation!

Thanks again, much appreciate any advice people can give.
First piece of advice is to ignore the information you've already been given. It's wrong. Your birth in the UK in the 1970s is enough to prove you are a British citizen (otherwise than by descent) - where your parents were from is irrelevant. As long as they were not Irish diplomats.

Your children are (it seems) already British citizens - but you need to prove it by getting them passports. It gets harder to prove things later on.
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...en_Born_Abroad

Third - do you want to register them as Irish citizens? If so, you DO need to provide grandparent details to the Irish authorities. For the Republic of Ireland, contact: http://www.groireland.ie/

For now, it's easy to get British or Irish birth certificates of parents but a so-called "privacy" law could be passed anytime to take this right away. So make sure everything is done now.
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Old Oct 1st 2010, 2:32 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Our 3 children were born in NZ 1998 - 2000. I am a New ZEalander and my husband is British. Whilst living in NZ we applied for British passports for the children (just filled in the application forms and provided birth certificates, marriage certificates etc) - did not register there births in UK as born in NZ. The only obstacle we faced was that the 2 eldest were born before we were married. We were told that as they were born out of wedlock did not have an automatic right to a British passport, only their younger brother did. After a bit of discussion with British Immigration they agreed to treat all 3 children equally and issued passports. It is quite a costly event when all passports are due for renewal as we now have 8 between us, but I felt it was important that the children had dual passports.
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Old Oct 1st 2010, 2:40 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by littlelollipop View Post
Our 3 children were born in NZ 1998 - 2000. I am a New ZEalander and my husband is British. Whilst living in NZ we applied for British passports for the children (just filled in the application forms and provided birth certificates, marriage certificates etc) - did not register there births in UK as born in NZ. The only obstacle we faced was that the 2 eldest were born before we were married. We were told that as they were born out of wedlock did not have an automatic right to a British passport, only their younger brother did. After a bit of discussion with British Immigration they agreed to treat all 3 children equally and issued passports.
And the reason they agreed was because you subsequently got married (and/or father was NZ domiciled at the time), so they were bound by the law. It's not based on a whim or "treating all children equally".

More information on how the law works:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...arried_Fathers
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Old Oct 1st 2010, 6:30 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me. I really, really appreciate the help - I'm so glad others can make sense of all this stuff.
Cheers!
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Old Oct 3rd 2010, 12:21 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
My parents were both Irish citizens but living in the UK since maybe the '50s and I was born in the '70s.
If you have any problems they can always take out Irish citizenship. I became an irish citizen by having just one grandparent being born in Ireland.
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Old Oct 3rd 2010, 4:11 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by Laloo View Post
If you have any problems they can always take out Irish citizenship. I became an irish citizen by having just one grandparent being born in Ireland.
There won't be any problems based on the facts submitted (ignore the wrong advice) although it may be advisable to take out Irish citizenship anyway.
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Old Oct 8th 2010, 5:12 am
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Default Registering my Children

I am a British Citizen (Otherwise Then by Descent) and hold a valid British Passport.
Live in Australia and have tow children, how can I obtain british Passports for them.
Checked UK Boarder Site and I cannot see what I need to fill out. Do I just apply for British Passports?

Thanks
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Old Oct 8th 2010, 11:59 am
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Default Re: Children British Citizen by descent

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
And the reason they agreed was because you subsequently got married (and/or father was NZ domiciled at the time), so they were bound by the law. It's not based on a whim or "treating all children equally".

More information on how the law works:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...arried_Fathers
We applied before the law changed in 2006 and the ruling at the time was that children born out of wedlock were not automatically entitled to British citizenship through their father, and therefore only our youngest was issued with a British passport. This was made quite clear to us. It was after quite a bit of correspondance and discussion based on 'all 3 children were equal and born into the same relationship, same father' that the eldest 2 were issued passports.
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