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Children born in NZ to UK citizens ( moved to Immy)

Children born in NZ to UK citizens ( moved to Immy)

Old May 13th 2009, 9:52 pm
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Default Children born in NZ to UK citizens ( moved to Immy)

Hi everyone
I'm sorry if this is a very stupid question but I have tried to find out online and cannot so I'm wondering if anyone of you can help me.

If you have children in NZ (while you are a resident of NZ but a UK citizen) then how do you go about sorting out dual nationality for the children? And would you bother (eg is it better for them later so they can choose whether to remain in NZ or UK?)

Also, if the children are NZ citizens and on NZ passports, do they need a visa for trips to the UK?

Thanks for any info
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Old May 14th 2009, 4:03 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
Hi everyone
I'm sorry if this is a very stupid question but I have tried to find out online and cannot so I'm wondering if anyone of you can help me.

If you have children in NZ (while you are a resident of NZ but a UK citizen) then how do you go about sorting out dual nationality for the children? And would you bother (eg is it better for them later so they can choose whether to remain in NZ or UK?)

Also, if the children are NZ citizens and on NZ passports, do they need a visa for trips to the UK?

Thanks for any info

My understanding is that children of UK citizens born in NZ will be NZ citizens and "Citizens by descent" of the UK.

So they will be entitled to residency both in NZ and UK, but they would have to apply for the relevant passport to live in the UK.

"Citizens by descent" of the UK cannot pass their UK citizenship on their children (unless their children are subsequently born in the UK too).

I hope this is right!
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Old May 14th 2009, 5:22 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

I think Browner got it right. Our youngest was born in NZ and has a NZ passport. You get NZ citizenship at birth provided your parents have permanent residency at the time
I'm assuming it will be straightforward to get a UK passport when he needs one, but I can't see the need for this until he wants to travel/work in UK and Europe. You don't need a visa to visit UK so I can't see any benefit in maintaining both passports - I may let our other son's UK one lapse because he has NZ also anyway
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Old May 14th 2009, 5:29 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi View Post
I think Browner got it right. Our youngest was born in NZ and has a NZ passport. You get NZ citizenship at birth provided your parents have permanent residency at the time
I'm assuming it will be straightforward to get a UK passport when he needs one, but I can't see the need for this until he wants to travel/work in UK and Europe. You don't need a visa to visit UK so I can't see any benefit in maintaining both passports - I may let our other son's UK one lapse because he has NZ also anyway
You probably don't need both, but they keep talking about changing the laws and whilst this is unlikely to be back-dated, if I were you I'd make sure your kids get a UK passport before the rules change so you don't get caught out. With the EU employment laws it will be far easier for them to work and travel anywhere in the EU in the future if they wanted to.

HTH

H

P.S. Browner is right
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Old May 14th 2009, 5:33 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Interested in what you mean by change the laws - you mean a child born overseas to UK citizens may not be eligible to citizenship?
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Old May 14th 2009, 5:52 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi View Post
Interested in what you mean by change the laws - you mean a child born overseas to UK citizens may not be eligible to citizenship?
If I could predict the future, I would be putting my numbers on the lottery....

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...en/bornabroad/

This is the current situation, but things can change. You need to register the birth within the first year for it all to go smoothly. Personally I'd do it in case the situation changes but you can do what you like.

A
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Old May 14th 2009, 5:57 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by miss_ck View Post
Hi everyone
I'm sorry if this is a very stupid question but I have tried to find out online and cannot so I'm wondering if anyone of you can help me.

If you have children in NZ (while you are a resident of NZ but a UK citizen) then how do you go about sorting out dual nationality for the children? And would you bother (eg is it better for them later so they can choose whether to remain in NZ or UK?)

Also, if the children are NZ citizens and on NZ passports, do they need a visa for trips to the UK?

Thanks for any info
If you were permanent residents in NZ then your children have dual UK/NZ citizenship. They should qualify as NZ citizens because their births will be registered in NZ. I think you can contact the british consulate to find out how to register them as UK citizens.

I would definately get both passports, it is certainly worth having both passports.

NZ citizens do not need visas for tourist trips to the uk at the moment, but do need it for any type of work in the uk or europe.
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Old May 14th 2009, 6:48 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by AKT View Post
If I could predict the future, I would be putting my numbers on the lottery....

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...en/bornabroad/

This is the current situation, but things can change. You need to register the birth within the first year for it all to go smoothly. Personally I'd do it in case the situation changes but you can do what you like.

A
The rules there are only if your parents are Brit citizens by descent - ie they were not born in the UK. Otherwise, this applies:
British citizenship may descend to one generation born abroad. So if you were born outside the United Kingdom or qualifying territory and one of your parents was a British citizen otherwise than by descent, you are a British citizen by descent. If you were born before 1 July 2006 you may not qualify if your parents were not married at the time of your birth.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br.../bornoverseas/
There is no requirement to register birth in this case, from what I can see on the website.
I wasn't expecting you to predict the future, by the way, I was just intrigued by your statement that "they keep talking about changing the laws" - do you have anything more specific.
Personally, I find it extremely unlikely that the "by descent" rule above will change - and even less likely that it will be backdated to exclude those who are currently eligible. I think I'll stick to "kiwi only" for my boys for now
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Old May 14th 2009, 10:13 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

we move to NZ on 12th June, our first baby is due 9th July. We are going on 2yr Work to Residence visa's - as we are not classed as citizens, our baby will not automatically become an NZ citizen, she will be a UK citizen, with an NZ birth cert, and all three of us will have to apply for citizenship. But im still not quite sure what happens if we decide to take a holiday i.e. she will not be able to have an NZ passport, but how do we apply for a UK passport for her when we are in NZ?! Confused? just a little!
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Old May 14th 2009, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi View Post
The rules there are only if your parents are Brit citizens by descent - ie they were not born in the UK. Otherwise, this applies:
British citizenship may descend to one generation born abroad. So if you were born outside the United Kingdom or qualifying territory and one of your parents was a British citizen otherwise than by descent, you are a British citizen by descent. If you were born before 1 July 2006 you may not qualify if your parents were not married at the time of your birth.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br.../bornoverseas/
There is no requirement to register birth in this case, from what I can see on the website.
I wasn't expecting you to predict the future, by the way, I was just intrigued by your statement that "they keep talking about changing the laws" - do you have anything more specific.
Personally, I find it extremely unlikely that the "by descent" rule above will change - and even less likely that it will be backdated to exclude those who are currently eligible. I think I'll stick to "kiwi only" for my boys for now
If a child is automatically a British citizen, then there will be no "backdated" change to the law. No-one takes citizenship away from those who already have it.

That said, people who only show up as adults to apply for a first British passport usually get a lot of hassle about proving their ID, and sometimes getting hold of the documents proving citizenship can be a lot harder.

Then there are the cases where parents think that their child is British, but it's not (usually some cases where parents are born outside UK or father is not married to mother) and in that case, if the law changes, or a time limit is missed, an entitlement to registration can be lost.

So it is really a "not smart" thing to just assume your child has a particular nationality without making any effort to get the documentation to prove it.
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Old May 14th 2009, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by keeny View Post
we move to NZ on 12th June, our first baby is due 9th July. We are going on 2yr Work to Residence visa's - as we are not classed as citizens, our baby will not automatically become an NZ citizen, she will be a UK citizen, with an NZ birth cert, and all three of us will have to apply for citizenship. But im still not quite sure what happens if we decide to take a holiday i.e. she will not be able to have an NZ passport, but how do we apply for a UK passport for her when we are in NZ?! Confused? just a little!
If you have any money left after all of that, the British High Commission will take it from you in return for a UK passoprt!

A
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Old May 14th 2009, 7:15 pm
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by Browner_ View Post
My understanding is that children of UK citizens born in NZ will be NZ citizens and "Citizens by descent" of the UK.

So they will be entitled to residency both in NZ and UK, but they would have to apply for the relevant passport to live in the UK.

"Citizens by descent" of the UK cannot pass their UK citizenship on their children (unless their children are subsequently born in the UK too).

I hope this is right!
Ok thanks everyone. Wow, it is easy to get confused.
I'll have a think but at least in the short term I don't need to worry too much. Cheers.
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Old May 15th 2009, 12:46 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Phew, you had me going for a minute their.

I hadnt registered my children within their first year, but it now looks like this doesnt matter because I am full British Citizen.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old May 15th 2009, 12:47 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by Browner_ View Post
My understanding is that children of UK citizens born in NZ will be NZ citizens and "Citizens by descent" of the UK.
Children born in New Zealand to foreign parents since 1.1.2006 are only NZ citizens by birth if at the time of birth, at least one parent is a New Zealand permanent resident (includes Australian citizens).

So they will be entitled to residency both in NZ and UK, but they would have to apply for the relevant passport to live in the UK.

"Citizens by descent" of the UK cannot pass their UK citizenship on their children (unless their children are subsequently born in the UK too).

I hope this is right!
Almost ... there are some additional provisions:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...hip_by_Descent
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Old May 15th 2009, 12:51 am
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Default Re: Children born in NZ to UK citizens

Originally Posted by keeny View Post
we move to NZ on 12th June, our first baby is due 9th July.
That is very late in pregnancy ... are you sure it is medically wise to fly (or even permitted)? It is also a very long flight and there are a variety of reasons why you do not want your child to arrive en-route!

We are going on 2yr Work to Residence visa's - as we are not classed as citizens,
Not classed as permanent residents, you must mean.

our baby will not automatically become an NZ citizen, she will be a UK citizen, with an NZ birth cert, and all three of us will have to apply for citizenship.
You'll need to get permanent residence first, then wait 5 years.

But im still not quite sure what happens if we decide to take a holiday i.e. she will not be able to have an NZ passport, but how do we apply for a UK passport for her when we are in NZ?! Confused? just a little!
British High Commission in New Zealand will issue passports, although it is more hassle to get one compared to the process in the U.K.

British passport + a New Zealand re-entry permit/visa, are what will be needed for her to travel.
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