Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Old Apr 22nd 2018, 9:34 am
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Default Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

but does anyone know the best cause of action for someone who is here as a partner of someone, along with their children, of the skill level class, higher level, but has now split from them and partner not playing ball with anything and has removed all documentation pertaining to the dependant and the children. They basically just want to go back to the UK.

I know they cannot remove the children without partners permission, but they have no income, can't gain income as have to look after the kids, have been given notice on the rental they are in and the partner is refusing to sign new lease or pay for them to find another place.

I have advised solicitor who deals in family law, contact WINZ asap, contact IRD to as least get their own IRD number as that paperwork has been taken, contact police for the return of their own passport.

Now they are asking about visa conditions that means the partner has to keep the dependants (sponsor sort of) for duration of visa, does anyone know about that? also Be of good Character is not being shown by this person.

Tough one and I think most answers would come back and seek professional advice, which is what I have said but just wondering if anyone knows anything about this type of thing or anyone been there and done that?
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 2:16 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Bit confused but it is Monday.

Is this person a common law live-in spouse ( partner) ?
They have children together ?
Is one UK and the other NZ ?

Which visa is it?
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 3:25 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

yes have children together, the partner has also taken all the childrens documentation and passports.

different surname so assume not married, both UK Citizens.

visa = Permanent residence (based on a skilled migrant) been here under 2 years, she is the dependant

partner has been violent, police have been involved though not sure how that went down as it seemed he called them for scratches related to her defending herself against him, as she had concussion from it, she was not fully with it to make her own complaint or maybe she has now, really not to sure as not face to face conversation and other things keep popping up
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 5:40 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Being the dependent partner is going to be one very rocky road and will be extra tricky with kids involved and really will need help from legal eagles.

Quite different I know, as I don't think there were kids involved but if you recall this lady who got absolutely zero sympathy from INZ when she lost her husband in a tragic drowning accident and had her visa cancelled - she was not allowed to stay here in her own right.
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 6:02 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

There is no obligation under the SMC visa policy for a spouse/partner to maintain the other should the relationship break down. When the visa is granted it becomes stand alone for each individual. Each on their own feet.

From what is written I would suspect that the partner holding the childrens papers and passports will simply state they are a-feared of an attempted abduction from NZ to the UK. The usual solution is for the childrens passports to be held by the court of neither party will amicably agree.

As a common law spouse , the person would apply for maintenance if an amicable solution could not be reached. Of course the kids welfare comes into play re fair access etc.

AFAIK it is illegal for someone ( partner ) to withhold your own passport from you. Passports are actually the property of the government that issues them. Not the individual. The British Consulate would deal with such matters but that would escalate an already unpleasant situation for everyone. Hopefully a little visit from the police, if they are willing & they may not wish to involve themselves in domestic disputes, would solve the issue.

A residency visa can be revoked if the 'good character' requirement is not being met. However this may well be viewed as a temporary domestic issue not a criminal issue where a prison sentence has come into play.

If the visa was revoked then that would only apply to that person. It would not revoke the visas for the rest of the family.
Should the person remain after being told to leave NZ then they would be deported. However any and all of this can be contested and brought before a residency review board , all of which can take a mighty long time .

I agree. It has to be Winz. If the split is for good then likely any lawyer will look to arbitration first.
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 6:04 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
Quite different I know, as I don't think there were kids involved but if you recall this lady who got absolutely zero sympathy from INZ when she lost her husband in a tragic drowning accident and had her visa cancelled - she was not allowed to stay here in her own right.
That is sad. I actually do know a person whose husband died of a heart attack within a year of them arriving in NZ on a residence visa. Her visa remained intact and she is still here 14 years later.


edit...
Did not read properly. It seems to have been a partnership visa based on marriage to someone with NZ residency.

Last edited by BEVS; Apr 23rd 2018 at 6:06 am.
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 6:31 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

found out they are actually married, so I have suggested she needs to find out where the legal obligation would be held, here or in UK.
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 7:05 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

she doesn't want to stay here, she gave up her life and business to follow his dreams and has come a cropper , she has no real help over here and just wants to go back to the UK to be with family to help her heal
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 6:58 pm
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Originally Posted by MrsFychan View Post
found out they are actually married, so I have suggested she needs to find out where the legal obligation would be held, here or in UK.
Sorry what legal obligation? The marriage will be recognised here assuming nothing unusual about it. And married or not, they would be in a de facto based purely on their time here anyway.

How old are the children? Does she want to repatriate without, or only with the children?

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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

she wants to go with the children, think they are quite young - not at school yet, he has taken all their passports.
as the visa, she says 3 years then need to reapply, I am not sure, if she wants to start divorce proceedings, where it would be. but now on thinking about it it would probably be here (?) she has said she would look at starting them when she spoke to Solicitor next.

I do know she is seeing WINZ today and has a solicitor putting together a formal letter about maintenance and asking about the passports.

She is very distressed with the whole situation, seems, from what I have gleamed from her, he has always been controlling, not allowing her to participate in paperwork for the move over, not allowing her to put her name on anything back in the UK even though she was earning her own money, its just taken a step further recently.
she is at a loss as to how she is going to be able to support herself and the kids and was hoping that a force move back to UK due to failure to support family and continue of good character on visa would keep her safe and have family support.
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 9:23 pm
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

Agreed 2yrs is long enough for the children to be resident under the Hague Convention.

Divorce would need to be here but would take 2yrs of seperation which she may not want to wait for.

Forget the Good Character references, it doesnt mean not being nice or any other random interpretation.

WINZ, maitenance, legal advice re the passports and leave to remove order, then divorce down the line.

Remember the courts will focus on the best for the children, not the wants of either parent
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Old Apr 23rd 2018, 9:30 pm
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

I made two replies but have deleted both. The visa status is unclear.

Her husband may not withhold her own passport from her. AFAIK a child's passport is a joint parental responsibility. As stated. He can simply state he is concerned she will attempt an abduction of his children away from him which may/may not be the case .

Regardless of claims of domestic abuse he is still their father as much as she is their mother. Please note I am making no judgement here on either parent . I have personally not been witness to what has happened within their marriage.

Where have the family been habitually resident for the past year or two ? ( this is regardless of visa status)
If that is here in NZ, then she will not be able to remove the children back to the UK even with their passports in her hand. She will need a 'leave to remove' order . The focus is on the children, not on the parents.

I would counsel that this lady to take a care before having thoughts that she could somehow force a UK return for all the family against her husband's will, domestic violence claims or otherwise.

If the visa status is that of a temporary work visa , be it work to residency or otherwise, then she is here only on the strength & goodwill of her husband's visa status. In theory she should be telling NZ immigration of her altered status but she might then find herself on a plane home alone.

If the visa status is that of NZ resident for the family then the rules and laws of NZ come into play. She is free to return to the UK. The children are a different matter.

If her husband wishes to remain in NZ but the wife does not then only a court ( Hague Convention) can decide what is in the best interests of the children.

Have read of Jessica's situation.

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Old Apr 24th 2018, 5:28 am
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Default Re: Asking on behalf - long shot maybe

thanks for the bit about Hague convention, did not know anything about this so I shall pass that on and get her to discuss with Solicitor or at least do her own research in to it.
Think she was just clutching at straws with the visa way as she does not know much about it.

I am trying to gee her up and stop feeling like a failure to her children because of the situation and get her to focus on just finding out her rights and best course of action and only spend a certain amount of time in the day on that and the rest of the time enjoying her kids and herself
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