Am i a criminal?

Old Jul 14th 2008, 9:30 am
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Exclamation Am i a criminal?

Hi you all!!

i've just joined you, and happy to be here!

I've got few questions which really confuses me! If someone can help i'll be really thankful!

I used to live in London between 2005-2007 and now i'm not a resident. Will apply for a Residence permit to New Zealand under partnership policy. And the NZ immigration is asking for a Police certificate for every country that i've lived for a year or more. So i obviously need one.

But the thing is before i left London haven't paid for my last credit card and mobile phone bills, it's because i had to leave urgently due to my family matters.

What makes me wonder is: if i apply for a police certificate for London will these debts appear in my certificate? And if it does will it affect my application?

I really need some help at this point...

Cheers
Jack
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Old Jul 14th 2008, 9:59 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

As far as I know its only convictions which appear on your police certificate which I am lead to believe is if you've been to Court and convicted of a crime. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old Jul 14th 2008, 11:21 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Soppydot4 View Post
As far as I know its only convictions which appear on your police certificate which I am lead to believe is if you've been to Court and convicted of a crime. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
These will not show on your record..if you have one. Its only criminal convictions that will show.

It might be a good idea to get the outstanding bills sorted.

A mate of mine 'walked away' from a debt it came back like a tsunami about 8 years later!! Fair drowned him!

Good luck.
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Old Jul 14th 2008, 11:39 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
These will not show on your record..if you have one. Its only criminal convictions that will show.

It might be a good idea to get the outstanding bills sorted.

A mate of mine 'walked away' from a debt it came back like a tsunami about 8 years later!! Fair drowned him!

Good luck.
Thanks for the replies guys!

I'm trying to find a lawyer in London to sort out the bills and to follow my case but i reckon i'm gonna get my certificate before i sort them out. But as i understood this will not appear on my certificate right, you say only criminal convictions will appear.
What if it does will i still be able to get a residency?

cheers,
really appreciated.
Jack
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Old Jul 15th 2008, 4:49 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Android View Post
Thanks for the replies guys!

I'm trying to find a lawyer in London to sort out the bills and to follow my case but i reckon i'm gonna get my certificate before i sort them out. But as i understood this will not appear on my certificate right, you say only criminal convictions will appear.
What if it does will i still be able to get a residency?

cheers,
really appreciated.
Jack
The debt thing won't show as I said..if you do have any convictions it is not a defo 'no'.

I remember back in 2005 reading that if you have sereved a prison sentence of more than 5 years you will/can be excluded...so I get the impression its only for really serious stuff. I understand each case is down to the case officer but unless you have done summat really serious I would not sweat too much..why not search the NZIS websire for 'conviction'..I am sure it will put your mind at rest.
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Old Jul 15th 2008, 1:55 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
The debt thing won't show as I said..if you do have any convictions it is not a defo 'no'.

I remember back in 2005 reading that if you have sereved a prison sentence of more than 5 years you will/can be excluded...so I get the impression its only for really serious stuff. I understand each case is down to the case officer but unless you have done summat really serious I would not sweat too much..why not search the NZIS websire for 'conviction'..I am sure it will put your mind at rest.
thanks for the reply Genesis,

I reckon 5 yrs conviction is for really serious stuff! Of course this can not be an excuse but my debts were not that much serious ( not more than 500-600 GBP) and as i told you before i'm seeking for some good lawyer to follow up my case i'll be paying soon. Yeah i reckon the only thing to clear my mind is to get a police certificate and see the result.

Thank you soo much all you guys, will keep you updated, but more suggestions or any advices would be more than welcome!!

cheers...
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Old Jul 15th 2008, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Android View Post
thanks for the reply Genesis,

I reckon 5 yrs conviction is for really serious stuff! Of course this can not be an excuse but my debts were not that much serious ( not more than 500-600 GBP) and as i told you before i'm seeking for some good lawyer to follow up my case i'll be paying soon. Yeah i reckon the only thing to clear my mind is to get a police certificate and see the result.

Thank you soo much all you guys, will keep you updated, but more suggestions or any advices would be more than welcome!!

cheers...
They are civil debts and will not show in a pcc unless you were arrested, charged and convicted of an offence in connection with the debt.

Pollyana
(former police records checker!)
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Old Jul 15th 2008, 2:41 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
They are civil debts and will not show in a pcc unless you were arrested, charged and convicted of an offence in connection with the debt.

Pollyana
(former police records checker!)
thanks for the reply Pollyana,

Nope i haven't arrested or such, but still my creditors could take this to the police or to the court, and then i reckon i'll get all these in my police certificate... Lets say it'll come up on my certificate, do you reckon this will affect my immigration? hope everything will be ok! and i promise i'll pay all all debts a.s.a.p

cheers
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 8:25 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
They are civil debts and will not show in a pcc unless you were arrested, charged and convicted of an offence in connection with the debt.

Pollyana
(former police records checker!)
i've read the RETENTION GUIDELINES for NOMINAL RECORDS on the POLICE NATIONAL COMPUTER. None relates to me they're mostly serious crime and mostly custody. Except the ref: 12.2.101.1 which is: "Obtain electronic communication service with intent to avoid payment" does it relate to my unpaid phone bill?

and also, ref: 4.5.44 which is: " Conspiracy of defraud" and does it relate to my unpaid bank credit cards?

these are category C and if its under no custody and only warning it takes 5 yrs to be step down from the police records..
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 9:21 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Android View Post
thanks for the reply Pollyana,

Nope i haven't arrested or such, but still my creditors could take this to the police or to the court, and then i reckon i'll get all these in my police certificate... Lets say it'll come up on my certificate, do you reckon this will affect my immigration? hope everything will be ok! and i promise i'll pay all all debts a.s.a.p

cheers
The creditors CANNOT take this to the police..the debt is a civil matter and as such does not fall under plod's umbrella. Theft has to have an element of the following, dishonestly appropriating the property of another with the intention of permamnently depriving them of said object/monies etc.

There would have been no dishonesty when you got the item initially on credit (unless of course you intentionally decieved to get said credit) thus one of the elements of theft are missing..ergo no crime. All elements of theft must be in place for the crime to have taken place. One assumes also that when you took said services/items you did not have the intention at the time not to pay..thus yet another element is missing.

Don't sweat over this..civil law nought to do with old bill. Good on you for getting it sorted.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 9:26 am
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Android View Post
i've read the RETENTION GUIDELINES for NOMINAL RECORDS on the POLICE NATIONAL COMPUTER. None relates to me they're mostly serious crime and mostly custody. Except the ref: 12.2.101.1 which is: "Obtain electronic communication service with intent to avoid payment" does it relate to my unpaid phone bill?

and also, ref: 4.5.44 which is: " Conspiracy of defraud" and does it relate to my unpaid bank credit cards?

these are category C and if its under no custody and only warning it takes 5 yrs to be step down from the police records..

You have not conspired to commit fraud just because of unpaid credit card...unless of course the application for credit for said services/items was done fraudulently. One assumes this is not the case and you are Mr Normal who applied for credit legally and you are simply yet to pay the credit back.

No worries!!

NB the bit about the phone bill......INTENTION TO AVOID PAYMENT is key here, it sounds like you always indended (did you not) to pay..you just have not yet done so.

Look I have been in NZ for 3 years, my tax affairs got into a parlous state...no intention atall to avoid tax..I was just ignorant of the issue that surrounded my circumstances. I went to the taxman with my hands up (when I discovered my error) and was totally open and honest about what I should have declared, I really worried about it but it was all cushty, all back taxes paid and penalties too (not very much as it was a very small amount of tax owed). All sorted done and dusted and the tax official dealing with my file has his/her faith restored in the public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thing is I fronted up and was honest. It was MY mistake and I was in the wrong BUT I did not set about intentionall to avoid the tax.

Last edited by Genesis; Jul 17th 2008 at 9:33 am.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
You have not conspired to commit fraud just because of unpaid credit card...unless of course the application for credit for said services/items was done fraudulently. One assumes this is not the case and you are Mr Normal who applied for credit legally and you are simply yet to pay the credit back.

No worries!!

NB the bit about the phone bill......INTENTION TO AVOID PAYMENT is key here, it sounds like you always indended (did you not) to pay..you just have not yet done so.

Look I have been in NZ for 3 years, my tax affairs got into a parlous state...no intention atall to avoid tax..I was just ignorant of the issue that surrounded my circumstances. I went to the taxman with my hands up (when I discovered my error) and was totally open and honest about what I should have declared, I really worried about it but it was all cushty, all back taxes paid and penalties too (not very much as it was a very small amount of tax owed). All sorted done and dusted and the tax official dealing with my file has his/her faith restored in the public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thing is I fronted up and was honest. It was MY mistake and I was in the wrong BUT I did not set about intentionall to avoid the tax.
thanks for the reply Genesis,

hope everything will go ok with the certificate... And i sort these bills out as soon as possible... Do you have any suggestion about it, i mean about paying the bills out? i was thinking of talking to a solicitor from London but i dunno how it works...

cheers
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 8:39 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Android View Post
thanks for the reply Genesis,

hope everything will go ok with the certificate... And i sort these bills out as soon as possible... Do you have any suggestion about it, i mean about paying the bills out? i was thinking of talking to a solicitor from London but i dunno how it works...

cheers
Personally I would not use a solicitor..just costs too much...and why on earth do you think you need one?????????????? Why not just approach those who you owe money to and ask to settle the debt with any interest that may have accrued on the account (so long as they are not taking the piss on the interest accrual) and get the thing sorted. I am sure they will be delighted to hear from you and to get the 'bad debt' off their books. They probably won't even be interested why the bill was not paid on time...ALL THEY WANT IS THEIR OWED MONEY.

Let me know how it goes aye??
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 9:13 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Personally I would not use a solicitor..just costs too much...and why on earth do you think you need one?????????????? Why not just approach those who you owe money to and ask to settle the debt with any interest that may have accrued on the account (so long as they are not taking the piss on the interest accrual) and get the thing sorted. I am sure they will be delighted to hear from you and to get the 'bad debt' off their books. They probably won't even be interested why the bill was not paid on time...ALL THEY WANT IS THEIR OWED MONEY.

Let me know how it goes aye??
thank you soo much for all your help, appreciated!
To be honest i feel confident now, and as you suggested i will get in touch with those people (probably the best way is to e-mail) and find out how much i owe them and finish it off! You're right they defo not care why i didn't pay the bill on time but, i owe that money and as they say" what goes around comes back around"

yup i'll keep you updated...

Cheers
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Old Oct 20th 2008, 11:08 pm
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Default Re: Am i a criminal?

I`ve received my UK police certificate this morning, its: "NO TRACE" all good to go!

thank you for everything...
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