Withdrawing an application

Old Jun 3rd 2004, 2:08 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

Mr. Miller, I've read through the ammendment to the IRPA Regulations and you are quite right. I stand corrected.

As such, I have no explanation for why my friends' applications where accepted.

One other thing I noticed from the ammendments, which I didn't quite understand, was the paragraph below:

"— The group of persons eligible for arranged employment points has been amended to include recent graduates who have studied and worked in Canada. These applicants have good economic settlement potential as skilled worker immigrants. Without the amendments to the provision, skilled workers who are recent graduates have greater difficulty in obtaining arranged employment points, as a permanent job offer needs to be confirmed by the Department of Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC) in order to be eligible;"

What does this mean? Does it mean that recent graduates who have worked in Canada can get arranged employment points without an HRDC-approved permanent job offer?

Madhuba

Originally posted by Andrew Miller
Unfortunately your interpretation is not correct - "or" applies to part time as the equivalent of full time employment, it doesn't void the "continuous" requirement. Unfortunately many applicants try to interpret the law the way they want to read it, not the way it is written.

So, it may be a part time with 20 hours per week for example - you will need 2 years of such part time employment, but it still must be continuous.

Please read Sept 27, 2003 amendment to Regulations here:

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/200...l/regle-e.html

Just do the search on above page for word "continuous" and read all relevant to the matter sections.

They clarify that the one-year continuous employment requirement in the federal skilled worker class applies to both full- and part-time employment.

The minimum requirement that in the preceding ten years an applicant has had at least one year of continuous full-time employment experience (or the equivalent in part-time employment) has been amended to clarify that the employment experience, whether full- or part-time, must be continuous. Short periods of part-time employment experience dispersed throughout the preceding ten years cannot be added up to meet the one-year employment experience requirement.

Amendment was issued because many like you misinterpreted the rule.

Here is exact wording of amended rule is as follows:

------------------------------
27. Paragraph 75(2)(a) of the Regulations is replaced by the following:
(a) within the 10 years preceding the date of their application for a permanent resident visa, they have at least one year of continuous full-time employment experience, as described in subsection 80(7), or the equivalent in continuous part-time employment in one or more occupations, other than a restricted occupation, that are listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix;
-----------------------------

I hope that it is clear to you and others that my interpretation was correct.




BTW, Regulations nor Manual don't use 1,950 hours per year as full time - immigration law defines full time as 37.5 hours per week.

Last edited by Madhuba; Jun 3rd 2004 at 2:12 pm.
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Old Jun 3rd 2004, 3:18 pm
  #17  
 
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

No, it doesn't mean that. Explanations are quite confusing, but what has been changed in order to accomodate recent graduates is that Section 82(2)(a)(iii) that was originally saying the following:

"(iii) the work permit is valid for at least 12 months after the date of the application for a permanent resident visa, and"

has been replaced with this:

"(iii) the work permit is valid at the time an application is made by the skilled worker for a permanent resident visa as well as at the time the permanent resident visa is issued to the skilled worker, if any, and"

and the new paragraph to subsection 82(2) has ben added as follows:

"(d) the skilled worker holds a work permit and

(i) the circumstances referred to in subparagraphs (a)(i) to (iv) and paragraph (b) do not apply, and

(ii) the circumstances referred to in subparagraphs (c)(i) and (ii) apply."

All of the above made it somehow easier for recent graduates to get qualifying job offer.

Opinion from HRDC is still needed.


Originally posted by Madhuba
Mr. Miller, I've read through the ammendment to the IRPA Regulations and you are quite right. I stand corrected.

As such, I have no explanation for why my friends' applications where accepted.

One other thing I noticed from the ammendments, which I didn't quite understand, was the paragraph below:

"— The group of persons eligible for arranged employment points has been amended to include recent graduates who have studied and worked in Canada. These applicants have good economic settlement potential as skilled worker immigrants. Without the amendments to the provision, skilled workers who are recent graduates have greater difficulty in obtaining arranged employment points, as a permanent job offer needs to be confirmed by the Department of Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC) in order to be eligible;"

What does this mean? Does it mean that recent graduates who have worked in Canada can get arranged employment points without an HRDC-approved permanent job offer?

Madhuba
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 11:30 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

I have another question. For adaptability I can get 5 points for having worked in Canada for a year. Does this year have to be continuous too? I have 8 months as a coop student and another 8 months with a post-grad job.

And a question for you Madhuba, when did your friends were approved? After the Sep-27-03 clarification or before?

I had assessed myself a lot of points as I claimed 15 points for job offer which was wrong as my employment is a post-graduation employment.

Thanks

S.



Originally posted by Madhuba
I still think you'll be fine. Just send the documents they are asking for as soon as possible and wait.

They haven't rejected your application. They are just asking you for a few missing pieces in your supporting documentation before they begin or complete the assessment. From what you've said, you have all this information. Maybe the transcripts you sent weren't in "university sealed envelopes" as required and that's why they want to see it again.

How many points had you assessed yourself at?

Madhuba
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

You'll get 5 points for at least 1 years of work in Canada **on valid work permit** only.


Originally posted by spas
I have another question. For adaptability I can get 5 points for having worked in Canada for a year. Does this year have to be continuous too? I have 8 months as a coop student and another 8 months with a post-grad job.

And a question for you Madhuba, when did your friends were approved? After the Sep-27-03 clarification or before?

I had assessed myself a lot of points as I claimed 15 points for job offer which was wrong as my employment is a post-graduation employment.

Thanks

S.
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 12:05 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

One was approved in late 2003 (around oct-dec), one in Jan 04 and the other in Mar 04.

You will get at least fifteen points for work experience. So don't worry about that. Although the post-grad job does not count as arranged employment (as Mr. Miller pointed out) it does, however, count as work experience. Same thing for the co-op job.

So the only ambiguous part is the continuous 1 year work experience. But even for that, I honestly don't think that will be a problem. The immigration system does have a few quirks but given that you have 16 months work experience and are currently employed on a one year work permit, I don't see the visa officer turning your application down solely on that basis.

Sometimes you just gotta go for it. What do you have to lose?

Madhuba


Originally posted by spas
I have another question. For adaptability I can get 5 points for having worked in Canada for a year. Does this year have to be continuous too? I have 8 months as a coop student and another 8 months with a post-grad job.

And a question for you Madhuba, when did your friends were approved? After the Sep-27-03 clarification or before?

I had assessed myself a lot of points as I claimed 15 points for job offer which was wrong as my employment is a post-graduation employment.

Thanks

S.
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 12:13 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

The only thing that really worries me is that if my application is refused it'll be really very difficult for me to get a studty permit if I want to go for a Master's degree.
If I had known I probably wouldn't have applied. But I applied already so I may try to go on and show that I have enough work experience as I have more than 16 months. The problem is that it is impossible to prove it as there are no records, no pay-slips, no contracts. I can only prove 26 non-continuous months.
I'm trying to get a letter from the people I worked for without contracts but it'll be difficult as they were breaking a regulation.
Are you in my same situation?

spas


Originally posted by Madhuba
One was approved in late 2003 (around oct-dec), one in Jan 04 and the other in Mar 04.

You will get at least fifteen points for work experience. So don't worry about that. Although the post-grad job does not count as arranged employment (as Mr. Miller pointed out) it does, however, count as work experience. Same thing for the co-op job.

So the only ambiguous part is the continuous 1 year work experience. But even for that, I honestly don't think that will be a problem. The immigration system does have a few quirks but given that you have 16 months work experience and are currently employed on a one year work permit, I don't see the visa officer turning your application down solely on that basis.

Sometimes you just gotta go for it. What do you have to lose?

Madhuba
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 12:38 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

By applying for PR you have already shown immigrant intent. So even if you withdraw your application, that won't change that. However, the mere fact that you've applied for PR does not preclude you from being admitted to Canada under another visa category. All it means is that you'll have to make a more concerted effort to demonstrate that you have ties to your home country and will leave Canada when your status expires (in this case, upon completion of your Master's degree).

And the beauty of it is that, even if your PR does get rejected, you can still apply again. And by then you will have your one year work experience completed (your current post-grad job).

So, pros of withdrawing your application now: Nil. No money back and you can't "undo" immigrant intent.

Cons of withdrawing: You'll never know if it could have gone through successfully; you pay international fees for your master's and you have to wait for at least another two years before you get your PR.

Pros of leaving it alone and letting it go through the process: It may very well get approved.

Cons of leaving it in the system: your application might also get rejected...which leaves you in the same place as when you pull out your application.

I (and my friends as well) were all more or less in the same situation as you. We all had part time jobs on campus, some of which didn't really qualify in the NOC list, and others that did. We just documented our cases as well as we could and hoped for the best. No one can question your ability to establish yourself in Canada. You have already demonstrated that. So just let things run their course and have confidence in your case.

Madhuba

Originally posted by spas
The only thing that really worries me is that if my application is refused it'll be really very difficult for me to get a studty permit if I want to go for a Master's degree.
If I had known I probably wouldn't have applied. But I applied already so I may try to go on and show that I have enough work experience as I have more than 16 months. The problem is that it is impossible to prove it as there are no records, no pay-slips, no contracts. I can only prove 26 non-continuous months.
I'm trying to get a letter from the people I worked for without contracts but it'll be difficult as they were breaking a regulation.
Are you in my same situation?

spas

Last edited by Madhuba; Jun 4th 2004 at 12:42 pm.
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 12:55 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

Btw one more thing. About those people who you worked for that were "breaking a regulation," I would think twice before including that in your application especially if this was in Canada. It would do more harm than good to your case

Madhuba

Originally posted by spas
The only thing that really worries me is that if my application is refused it'll be really very difficult for me to get a studty permit if I want to go for a Master's degree.
If I had known I probably wouldn't have applied. But I applied already so I may try to go on and show that I have enough work experience as I have more than 16 months. The problem is that it is impossible to prove it as there are no records, no pay-slips, no contracts. I can only prove 26 non-continuous months.
I'm trying to get a letter from the people I worked for without contracts but it'll be difficult as they were breaking a regulation.
Are you in my same situation?

spas
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 1:02 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

I know what you mean. But that wasn't in Canada definetely but in my country where things work in a different way

S.

Originally posted by Madhuba
Btw one more thing. About those people who you worked for that were "breaking a regulation," I would think twice before including that in your application especially if this was in Canada. It would do more harm than good to your case

Madhuba
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 1:03 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

One more thing, do you know if the year of work in Canada to get 5 points for adaptability has to be "continuous" too?

S.
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Old Jun 4th 2004, 1:10 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Withdrawing an application

I don't think it has to be. The link that Mr. Miller gave me only spoke about the minimum 1 year work experience requirement to be considered a skilled worker. I don't remember seeing anything about the adaptabiliy points having to be from continuous employment. It does however have to be on a valid work permit. I think that's probably why Schedule 3 asks you if you are currently working in Canada under a work permit and to provide a copy of it.

Madhuba

Originally posted by spas
One more thing, do you know if the year of work in Canada to get 5 points for adaptability has to be "continuous" too?

S.

Last edited by Madhuba; Jun 4th 2004 at 1:12 pm.
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