I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university degree. I don't
know what changes will be done in Immigration process. -- Sly |
For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new immigration
law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points system in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will not longer exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language ability and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new system compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first language up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9) and work experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to current 8 points. There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those candidates who have less than university degree and less than fluent language skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can qualify under today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new rules. But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and work experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on the GOL (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new rules. -- ../.. Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email: [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before sending an email) ________________________________ > > > > > |
Andrew and other experts, What is the rationale for this new criteria? How is this
a better "filter" in terms of immigrant contributions to the Canadian society? Thanks Simson Andrew Miller wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]> > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university degree. I[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] |
The rationale for new selection criteria is that old, occupation based system is
outdated and is not relevant anymore to ever changing market conditions. Also, as you can probably read from the past posts in this group the old system allowed to Canada too many people who had high points occupation but no adaptability skills at all and they are now complaining that they must compete for jobs with Canadians and immigrants alike. Those without skills to adapt, with poor language and used to having job security in their old country are ending up as pizza delivery boys regardless their "high demand" occupation. Although there is and probably never be a perfect selection system I strongly believe that new selection criteria will give much needed boost to those who have good education, language skills, adaptability skills and work experience (all 4 elements are absolutely necessary to survive and succeed on today's very competitive job market) without unnecessary "rewarding" of those who have occupation listed on the outdated GOL. Implementation of an objective point system that places more emphasis on education, language abilities and flexible transferable skills, recognizing experience in any skilled and trades occupation and moving away from an occupation-based selection model is a better way to achieve our immigration goals. -- ../.. Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email: [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before sending an email) ________________________________ > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > immigration law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points[/usenetquote2] system [usenetquote2]> > in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will not longer[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language[/usenetquote2] ability [usenetquote2]> > and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new[/usenetquote2] system [usenetquote2]> > compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9) and work[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to current 8 points.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those candidates who[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > have less than university degree and less than fluent[/usenetquote2] language [usenetquote2]> > skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can qualify under[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new[/usenetquote2] rules. [usenetquote2]> > But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and[/usenetquote2] work [usenetquote2]> > experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on the[/usenetquote2] GOL [usenetquote2]> > (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new rules.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > ../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > sending an email)[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > ________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university[/usenetquote2] degree. I [usenetquote2]> > > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > >[/usenetquote2] > |
Hello experts,
Do you know when does new immigration law start and where I can find the information about? new immigration law sounds good for me. I would like to take a time to think about applying PR once more. Any information greatly appreciated. thanks in advance, K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]> > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university degree. I[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] |
The new law waits for the final vote in the House of Commons now and may be voted on
this week. After that it will go through the approval process in the Senate and after approved will await Royal Assent. It may be in force probably as soon as late fall this year, but most likely sometimes next year. More information about it you can find here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/about/policy/imm-act.html Please note that House of Commons already amended few things in Bill C-11 and the version waiting for the vote is slightly different from the one on the website above. Also new amendments may be implemented by the Senate, so we'll have to wait for the final passed version before trying to analyze it more deeply. -- ../.. Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email: [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before sending an email) ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]> > For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > immigration law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points[/usenetquote2] system [usenetquote2]> > in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will not longer[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language[/usenetquote2] ability [usenetquote2]> > and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new[/usenetquote2] system [usenetquote2]> > compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9) and work[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to current 8 points.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those candidates who[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > have less than university degree and less than fluent[/usenetquote2] language [usenetquote2]> > skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can qualify under[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new[/usenetquote2] rules. [usenetquote2]> > But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and[/usenetquote2] work [usenetquote2]> > experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on the[/usenetquote2] GOL [usenetquote2]> > (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new rules.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > ../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > sending an email)[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > ________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university[/usenetquote2] degree. I [usenetquote2]> > > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] > |
Version amended by the house: http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills-
/government/C-11/C-11_2/C-11_cover-E.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]>> Hello experts,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> Do you know when does new immigration law start and where I can find the[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> information about? new immigration law sounds good for me. I would like to take a[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> time to think about applying PR once more. Any information greatly appreciated.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> thanks in advance,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> K.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > immigration law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will not[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > longer exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9) and work[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to current 8 points.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those candidates who[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > have less than university degree and less than fluent[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can qualify[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > under today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on the[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new rules.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > ../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > sending an email)[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > ________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> > > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] |
Peter,
This is the version amended by Standing Committee on May 28, not the final text of passed Bill C-11 as of June 13, 2001. I wasn't watching the debate after third reading, so I have no idea what (if anything) has changed during that debate. In a few days the text of Bill C-11 as passed by the House of Commons should be available on Parliament's website. -- ../.. Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email: [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before sending an email) ________________________________ > > http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c.../C-11/C-11_2/C -11_cover-E.html > [usenetquote2]> >Please note that House of Commons already amended few things in Bill C-11[/usenetquote2] and [usenetquote2]> >the version waiting for the vote is slightly different from the one on the website[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >above. Also new amendments may be implemented by the Senate, so[/usenetquote2] we'll [usenetquote2]> >have to wait for the final passed version before trying to analyze it more deeply.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >--[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >sending an email)[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> Hello experts,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> Do you know when does new immigration law start and where I can find the[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> information about? new immigration law sounds good for me. I would like to take[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> a time to think about applying PR once more. Any information greatly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> appreciated.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> thanks in advance,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> K.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > immigration law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >system[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will[/usenetquote2] not [usenetquote2]> >> > longer exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >ability[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >system[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > language up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9)[/usenetquote2] and [usenetquote2]> >> > work experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to[/usenetquote2] current 8 [usenetquote2]> >> > points. There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > candidates who have less than university degree and less than fluent[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can[/usenetquote2] qualify [usenetquote2]> >> > under today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >rules.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >work[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on[/usenetquote2] the [usenetquote2]> >GOL[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] rules. [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > ../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > sending an[/usenetquote2] email) [usenetquote2]> >> > ________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >degree. I[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2] |
Andrew
Thanks. The news reported inadmissibility if sentenced to 2 years imprisonment but the amended report says 6 months. I guess it has been changed. Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [usenetquote2]>> Version amended by the house:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] > > [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >Please note that House of Commons already amended few things in Bill C-11[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >the version waiting for the vote is slightly different from the one on the[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >website above. Also new amendments may be implemented by the Senate, so[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >have to wait for the final passed version before trying to analyze it more[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >deeply.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >--[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >sending an email)[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> Hello experts,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> Do you know when does new immigration law start and where I can find the[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> information about? new immigration law sounds good for me. I would like to take[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> a time to think about applying PR once more. Any information greatly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> appreciated.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> thanks in advance,[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> K.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > For some it will be easier while for others harder to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > immigration law. Major changes are in the selection criteria and points[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >system[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > in the Independent category. Occupation based system as it is now will[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> > longer exist. Emphasis of new selection grid is on education, language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >ability[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > and work experience - education may be awarded up to 25 points in new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >system[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > compared to only 16 under existing law, language up to 20 points (first[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > language up to 16) compared to the current 16 points (first language 9)[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> > work experience will be rewarded with up to 25 points compared to[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> > points. There will be no points for occupation or ETF at all, so those[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > candidates who have less than university degree and less than fluent[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >language[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > skills but high points occupation (for example programmers) and can[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> > under today's rules will have extreme difficulties qualifying under new[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >rules.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > But on the other end those who have good education, language skills and[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >work[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > experience but cannot qualify today because their occupation is not on[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >GOL[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > (or scores low number of points) will be able to qualify under new[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > ../..[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > [email protected] (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > sending an[/usenetquote2] > [usenetquote2]>> >> > ________________________________[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > > I'm IT 3 years experience as programmer and collage non university[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >degree. I[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > > don't know what changes will be done in Immigration process.[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > > --[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > > Sly[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> > >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] [usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2] |
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