Will my past control my future?

Old Mar 4th 2008, 2:10 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by JAJ
Easy to be judgemental now but the reality in Britain today there are concerns over police forces eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through the ignorance of those who do not understand either the law or their rights.

.
I see you went back and edited out the word "corrupt" afterwards. Maybe even you saw that you went a bit over the top on that one !
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 3:02 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Fear and Loathing on British Expats

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
1. How do you know (unless you have a summary conviction in Canada) that your conviction outside Canada "may only be prosecuted by summary conviction if committed in Canada"?
Andrew- you are quite right- I don't know for certain.

My assumption is that a £50 fine for being drunk in public when a teenager is not anything more serious than a summary conviction- plus it happened almost nine years ago.
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 3:52 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by ann m
I see you went back and edited out the word "corrupt" afterwards. Maybe even you saw that you went a bit over the top on that one !
Thats not on going back over your posts and editing them, it makes others posts appear irrelevant particularly when they have cut and pasted the words which have been edited.

JAJ def used the word "corrupt" and this is the word that got my back up. Surly ones editing rights should be taken away!
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 4:58 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Are people seriously contending that the police aren't corrupt? What planet are they living on? Can I come and visit?
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 5:01 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by bazzz
Are people seriously contending that the police aren't corrupt? What planet are they living on? Can I come and visit?
There not corrupt in the UK. Tell me why you think there Corrupt?
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 5:17 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
There not corrupt in the UK. Tell me why you think there Corrupt?
Flip open any issue of Private Eye and you'll find more than enough to satisfy your curiosity.
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 5:44 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by bazzz
Flip open any issue of Private Eye and you'll find more than enough to satisfy your curiosity.
So your telling me their corrupt because you have read several issues of Private Eye!!!!!!!

Thats a bit like believing all advice given on this forum is correct and accurate!
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 6:03 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
So your telling me their corrupt because you have read several issues of Private Eye!!!!!!!

Thats a bit like believing all advice given on this forum is correct and accurate!
Do you seriously believe that there is not a single corrupt Police Officer in the UK? A quick Google search yielded this...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/audio/2...ss&feed=uknews


No one is saying ALL cops are corrupt. On the same token, you cannot contend that all cops are NOT corrupt.

Cheers,

Kur
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 6:06 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Fear and Loathing on British Expats

Originally Posted by geo4
Andrew- you are quite right- I don't know for certain.

My assumption is that a £50 fine for being drunk in public when a teenager is not anything more serious than a summary conviction- plus it happened almost nine years ago.
There is no such offence in the Canadian criminal code.
There isn't one for speeding or driving without a vehicle safety certificate either.

There's one for DUI.
There's a few for affray, scrapping etc for which the code goes out of its way to say that being drunk is no excuse.

So if there's no offense then it can't be indictable, right?
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 6:15 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Fear and Loathing on British Expats

Originally Posted by wbexpat
There is no such offence in the Canadian criminal code.
There isn't one for speeding or driving without a vehicle safety certificate either.

There's one for DUI.
There's a few for affray, scrapping etc for which the code goes out of its way to say that being drunk is no excuse.

So if there's no offense then it can't be indictable, right?
Or it means it's a summary offence??
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 6:27 am
  #41  
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Default thank you so far

Thanks everyone for replying to my thread, i found your information interesting and very helpful. I have received a good balance of opinion from those who have responded and now i have to make my next step.

One thing that has come out of text, supported by the canadian government is that someone is unadmissable if "there exist reasonable grounds to believe that the person has been convicted outside Canada of two or more offences, not arising out of a single occurrence, that if committed in Canada would constitute a summary conviction offences under any Act of Parliament, where any part of the sentences imposed for the offences was served or to be served at any time during the five-year period immediately preceding the day on which he or she seeks admission to Canada [19(2)(b)(ii)]."
Ive never been to a magistrates, served any sentences or paid any fines for the cautions i received. I believe my second offence to be of such a minor nature that if it meant i could not pursue my dream of going to canada i would have to fight the caution in England till it was overturned. I have job offers from canadian employers who are offering positions which are in great demand in B.C. and Calgary and find it very difficult to get my head round the fact that breaking a branch when drunk is going to stop me from fulfilling the demand.

Does the immigration officer have any discretion in the matter?How much would it cost me to get everything in place and try and get a visa at the office?Has anyone had/heard of people being accepted/denied with a similar situation as myself? Would investing in a immigration lawyer/lawyer at this point be worthwile?How do canadian officals know what a caution in england is, in comparison to one in canada?How can i find out?

Thanks again for any assistance you can give me and wishes of good luck because by the sounds of this i might just need some.
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 8:17 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Fear and Loathing on British Expats

Originally Posted by geo4
Or it means it's a summary offence??
Gawd knows.

Here is another lawyer's site:
http://www.defencelaw.com/classification.html
I paraphrase, and its my emphasis:


Summary conviction offences

"Summary conviction offences encompass the most minor offences in the Criminal Code..."

"Indictable offences
An indictable offence is more serious than a summary conviction offence..."


That says to me its only considered an offence in Canada if it's in the Criminal Code - ie a federal type crime, rather than a provincial type deal.

Ergo, my Driving without an MOT - not a criminal offence in Canada.
Speeding - not a criminal offence, Drunk - not a criminal offence.
Hence I only need to worry about the juvenile matter which was more than 25 years ago.

To the OP:
I talked to a police friend of mine, re what I thought was my caution for being drunk in 1991. He did a bit of digging and there is no trace of it. He says I mustn't have received a caution. He says a caution has to be administered by an inspector in a formal situation with a preamble, something that I would have to sign and all that. What I received, it appears, was a bollocking. Back in 1999, it could be that you just got a bollocking. It;s worth checking. Ditto 2004 and 2006.
Basically, it seems to be cautioned you need some old boy with a bit of the odl cottage cheese telling you off not some random copper.

Get a copy of your police record, then worry about it.

FWIW yes I agree that buggering about after a rugby match shouldnt mean your life being ruined. And I think its a bit saucy to say the least to require pardons off people for doing a bit of weed. Canada is that its full of the rotten stuff!

Finally I doubt if any official or lawyer will give you an answer to the question " what are my chances ". The rules are as set out and you will be advised to be honest when answering and just follow the process. I think the reality is that officials have a little discretion - particulalry if you come from the UK (Canadian and UK law is reasonably similar in construction and quality). My strategy is to be honest and up front but to assert strongly that my offences are not in the Canadian Criminal Code. if it ain't a crime in Canada they ain't interested.
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 11:28 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
Thats not on going back over your posts and editing them, it makes others posts appear irrelevant particularly when they have cut and pasted the words which have been edited.
Everyone has edit rights over their own posts for a period of time. I used my edit right to clarify what I was intending to say. - what's wrong with that?
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 11:44 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by JAJ
Everyone has edit rights over their own posts for a period of time. I used my edit right to clarify what I was intending to say. - what's wrong with that?
As per the previous post - the word which started this debate was editted / take out. This was the word that upset me as you were saying I was corrupt because of who I worked for.
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Old Mar 4th 2008, 12:01 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
As per the previous post - the word which started this debate was editted / take out. This was the word that upset me as you were saying I was corrupt because of who I worked for.
Which wasn't what I was saying, hence the edit to clarify. It wasn't my intent to offend and I apologise if I did so.

I don't intend to reiterate the other points I made about the system in general. Hard to know who is to blame for the state of affairs, a lot of it comes down to poor leadership on the part of some senior officers, lack of local democratic control over policing, and a central government with a strange set of priorities.

Last edited by JAJ; Mar 4th 2008 at 12:21 pm.
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