Will my past control my future?

Old Mar 3rd 2008, 8:22 am
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Default Will my past control my future?

Im nervous writing this but it has to be done.

Im 26 and pass the skills points needed to apply under a skilled worker.

I have interest from a number of companies who would like to interview me further.

I have found vacancies for jobs in the labour shortage lists that i easily qualify for.

I have a canadian grandfather.

Unfortunately when i was younger i received police cautions for:

1999 Possession of cannabis I was sitting with a group of friends around a swimming pool. Someone produced a cigarette of cannabis and it was passed around. The police turned up and decided to caution all of us.

2004 Affray I was drinking with a couple of friends in Coventry. A dispute occurred between my friend and someone else. I turned around to see someone attacking my friend. I jumped in to try and help my friend pull away from the other person. His friends thought I was trying to attack their friend and the situation escalated. The police were called and on arrival cautioned all involved.

2006 Damage to public property I was celebrating after a rugby match. I was swinging on the branch of a tree, which snapped. This was filmed on CCTV and I was cautioned

I understand that these are all on my police record and that when applying for a visa they will all be displayed and will affect the outcome of the application. Im not a bad person or one who is proud of any of the events above. In the last two years i have matured alot, ive become a project manager within construction industry and a level 2 cricket coach. After visiting canada two years ago all i have wanted to do is go back there and live there for good.

What are my chances? Would they be increased with an immigration lawyer? Can i get a pardon for any offences?

Im nervous about all outcomes but any information i can receive from any of the very kind people who use this site would be very helpful. Thanks lawrence
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 8:58 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Hi

Sorry I do not know the process/potential outcome for your situation but just wanted to wish you luck and hope it works out for you in the end!
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 9:11 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Hi

Welcome and good luck.

If you search through my previous posts you will find a great deal of info and advice from others concerning the impact of police cautions on immigration. It is a complex and debated topic! We are still waiting to find out how we will be affected personally.

I hope that helps.

Kellie

PS Are you from Cov? We were!
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 9:22 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Lawrence_26
Im nervous writing this but it has to be done.

Im 26 and pass the skills points needed to apply under a skilled worker.

I have interest from a number of companies who would like to interview me further.

I have found vacancies for jobs in the labour shortage lists that i easily qualify for.

I have a canadian grandfather.

Unfortunately when i was younger i received police cautions for:

1999 Possession of cannabis I was sitting with a group of friends around a swimming pool. Someone produced a cigarette of cannabis and it was passed around. The police turned up and decided to caution all of us.

2004 Affray I was drinking with a couple of friends in Coventry. A dispute occurred between my friend and someone else. I turned around to see someone attacking my friend. I jumped in to try and help my friend pull away from the other person. His friends thought I was trying to attack their friend and the situation escalated. The police were called and on arrival cautioned all involved.

2006 Damage to public property I was celebrating after a rugby match. I was swinging on the branch of a tree, which snapped. This was filmed on CCTV and I was cautioned

I understand that these are all on my police record and that when applying for a visa they will all be displayed and will affect the outcome of the application. Im not a bad person or one who is proud of any of the events above. In the last two years i have matured alot, ive become a project manager within construction industry and a level 2 cricket coach. After visiting canada two years ago all i have wanted to do is go back there and live there for good.

What are my chances? Would they be increased with an immigration lawyer? Can i get a pardon for any offences?

Im nervous about all outcomes but any information i can receive from any of the very kind people who use this site would be very helpful. Thanks lawrence
Hi,

You talk about cautions!!!!!! I was not aware as a serving officer a person could get three cautions in such a short period of time (maybe the 1999 to 2006 but not the2 yr period)

The publics understanding of a caution may differ from the real thing which goes on ones record. Were you arrested for the matters, how were they dealt with? I only ask as you may not have a criminal caution and just advice from an officer which one may think is a caution.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 9:26 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Lawrence_26
I have a canadian grandfather.
Was your parent a Canadian at the time of your birth?
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 9:45 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

My grandfather was canadian at the time of my birth. My father had the option of becoming a canadian citzen before a certain date but did not. Could he possbly stil do it now?
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 9:50 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
Hi,

You talk about cautions!!!!!! I was not aware as a serving officer a person could get three cautions in such a short period of time (maybe the 1999 to 2006 but not the2 yr period)

The publics understanding of a caution may differ from the real thing which goes on ones record. Were you arrested for the matters, how were they dealt with? I only ask as you may not have a criminal caution and just advice from an officer which one may think is a caution.

The first offence was when i was 17 so maybe that might have something to do with it. I was arrested on all three occasions but i didnt realise the implications of a caution until i started trying to immigrate. I thought it was the easiest way to get out in the shortest time and the way the police described it to me was that it was not going to give me criminal record. Is there any way of having cautions overturned?
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 10:19 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Lawrence_26
The first offence was when i was 17 so maybe that might have something to do with it. I was arrested on all three occasions but i didnt realise the implications of a caution until i started trying to immigrate. I thought it was the easiest way to get out in the shortest time and the way the police described it to me was that it was not going to give me criminal record. Is there any way of having cautions overturned?
A few years back Cautions only stayed on your record for 5 years, I’m aware the law has changed in the last yr or two meaning they stay on there for life. Unsure what happens to the cautions put on b4 this time.

You are right about the age thing, being under 18 would have meant you were entitled to a juvenile reprimand or final warning. When you become an adult if the offence is not to serious and there is an admission you can take a adult caution. (this is what I think you are talking about)

Have you applied for your police checks yet to see what has been recorded if anything? Admin errors always occur even in the police. There is no way a caution can be overturned that I am aware of. I don’t understand how you have received 3 cautions!!!
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Lawrence_26
My grandfather was canadian at the time of my birth. My father had the option of becoming a canadian citzen before a certain date but did not. Could he possbly stil do it now?
Same for me. My Grandad is a Canadian Citizen but my dad didn't ever get it/ apply for it. If only they did huh!
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Lawrence_26
What are my chances? Would they be increased with an immigration lawyer? Can i get a pardon for any offences?

Im nervous about all outcomes but any information i can receive from any of the very kind people who use this site would be very helpful. Thanks lawrence
You are criminally inadmissible to Canada until you are granted Criminal Rehabilitation - you will be eligible to apply for one after 5 years from last caution.

You shouldn't take cautions in '04 and '06 - agreeing to caution is an admission of guilt. You should have taken your chances in court instead. Now it is too late.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
You are criminally inadmissible to Canada until you are granted Criminal Rehabilitation - you will be eligible to apply for one after 5 years from last caution.

You shouldn't take cautions in '04 and '06 - agreeing to caution is an admission of guilt. You should have taken your chances in court instead. Now it is too late.
Easy to be judgemental now but the reality in Britain today there are concerns over police forces eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through the ignorance of those who do not understand either the law or their rights.

The line in the popular press that a caution constitutes being "let off" merely makes their task easier.

A police caution is absolutely not a criminal conviction but as part of the descent into authoritarianism in Britain it is increasly being treated "de-facto" as such.

First practical steps for the original poster would be:

1. Don't assume a caution was really admitted, as opposed to something more informal. Get a copy of all relevant records. Starting with a Subject Access request but also looking for the relevant local police records. If there is no evidence to support the existence of a caution, maybe it was never administered. The level of competency in the police force has declined at the same rate as its ethos of public service.

2. If you can find paperwork, examine it carefully (with assistance of good criminal law solicitor) to see if there are any irregularities in the process of administering it.

3. If all else fails, you may need to forget Canada and look at Australia instead. Unlike Canada, Australia looks at these issues more on a case by case basis, especially if there is no prison sentence involved. You would need some good professional assistance but I don't see the same blanket ban that Canada might apply.

Last edited by JAJ; Mar 3rd 2008 at 4:32 pm.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 3:22 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by JAJ
Easy to be judgemental now but the reality in Britain today is an increasingly corrupt police force eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through lies and intimidation of those who do not understand either the law or their rights.

The line in the popular press that a caution constitutes being "let off" merely makes their task easier.

A police caution is absolutely not a criminal conviction but as part of the descent into authoritarianism in Britain it is increasly being treated "de-facto" as such.

First practical steps for the original poster would be:

1. Don't assume a caution was really admitted, as opposed to something more informal. Get a copy of all relevant records. Starting with a Subject Access request but also looking for the relevant local police records. If there is no evidence to support the existence of a caution, maybe it was never administered. The level of competency in the police force has declined at the same rate as its ethos of public service.

2. If you can find paperwork, examine it carefully (with assistance of good criminal law solicitor) to see if there are any irregularities in the process of administering it.

3. If all else fails, you may need to forget Canada and look at Australia instead. Unlike Canada, Australia looks at these issues more on a case by case basis, especially if there is no prison sentence involved. You would need some good professional assistance but I don't see the same blanket ban that Canada might apply.
The words

"A corrupt police force eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through lies and intimidation of those who do not understand either the law or their rights"

Totally agree about the targets but corrupt, intimidation and lies are all misused words from one who clearly has no inside knowledge just their own views.

The way in which the force operates today would not allow one to behave in that way.

If someone is going to break the law then they should know their rights - legal advice - so surly the blame should remain with the professionals refered to as solicitors. These are the people who talk their clients into accepting cautions, less paperwork and the same fee. A caution file takes the same time to prepare as a charge file.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by JAJ
the reality in Britain today is an increasingly corrupt police force eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through lies and intimidation of those who do not understand either the law or their rights.
I resent that sweeping comment ... :curse: Not helpful and not accurate.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
The words

"A corrupt police force eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through lies and intimidation of those who do not understand either the law or their rights"

Totally agree about the targets but corrupt, intimidation and lies are all misused words from one who clearly has no inside knowledge just their own views.

The way in which the force operates today would not allow one to behave in that way.

If someone is going to break the law then they should know their rights - legal advice - so surly the blame should remain with the professionals refered to as solicitors. These are the people who talk their clients into accepting cautions, less paperwork and the same fee. A caution file takes the same time to prepare as a charge file.
Quite so. If someone breaks the law, be prepared for the consequences. Perhaps we should be more concerned about those who break the laws, and the lack of punishments dished out by the courts, than the police trying to do their job. More often than not, with one hand tied behind their back. There is more often than not a reason for an arrest, otherwise we would all be pulled in willy nilly. I realise this is a sweeping statement and may not apply to all incidents, however the police often do the best job they can with the resources at hand. In this country and many others they risk being shot every time they go to work.

Last edited by Surrey Expat; Mar 3rd 2008 at 3:38 pm.
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Old Mar 3rd 2008, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Will my past control my future?

Originally Posted by wayne-Niki
The words

"A corrupt police force eager to meet their "targets" by extracting police cautions through lies and intimidation of those who do not understand either the law or their rights"

Totally agree about the targets but corrupt, intimidation and lies are all misused words from one who clearly has no inside knowledge just their own views.

The way in which the force operates today would not allow one to behave in that way.
With attitudes like this being reported it is hardly a surprise that trust in the police force is at rock-bottom:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle716688.ece

Perhaps it would be simpler for all if the caution system was abolished. If it is going to be treated as a criminal conviction, then it would be a lot better if proper court process was observed.
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