JAJ

Your point is well made. At the same time it seems silly to make those on work permits (who by definition are generally the most desirable migrants, because they have demonstrated employability in Canada) wait an an ever-longer processing queue.

If such people are forced to leave Canada because their work permit has expired, there's no guarantee they will come back - they might go to Australia or New Zealand instead. Or the US.

Jeremy

JAJ

While it is possible in some circumstances for tradesmen to migrate to Australia without formal qualifications, the assessment process is not for the faint-hearted.

It's a lot easier for those who have the proper trade certificates.


Jeremy

matty266

HI all

After working in canada for two years you are right that they need manual trades as well as skilled trades,but i havent done university and my points were above 75 when i had a look after doing 8 years in the armed forces,

obvously like Mr miller has said if you look how the points is worked out it is fair as i gain more points for doing a trade and having experience as well as reading writing basic french (more points) and age

unless your looking at not having not finished secondary school then why should someone who is un-educated be allowed into another country maybe some of the people out there couldnt be bothered at school and messed around, in canada if you havent completed your secondry education it is hard to get a well paid job as it is the most basic education you need (grade 12). and it also demonstrates that you are willing to work at aomething and complete it

Its looking at your options as well, if you want those points you need to earn them by taking courses and improving one self and gaining experience,


Ive said my piece which is only my opinion and is not intended to insult people.

Regards
matty266

JAJ

There are basically *three* ways in which a country can select its immigrants:

1. specific requirements;
2. long waiting times for visa to be processed; or
3. lottery

Australia's approach - in general - is in the first category. The bar is set high, but if you meet the requirements you will generally get your visa processed in a year or so.

Australia applies a similar approach to some family categories, such as parents, where demand exceeds the number of visas the Australian community is prepared to grant.

If demand goes up, Australia normally acts very quickly to change the rules or change the supply of visas to keep things in balance.

By reducing the pass mark to 67 - when the anecdotal evidence is that an equilibrium (applicants with sufficient points = supply of visas) would be somewhere in the 70-75 area. Canada appears to have deliberately lowered the bar without raising the number of visas, and so the queues are going up and up.

What this will eventually mean is that Canada will only attract those who have no hope of getting accepted anywhere else, as few people will wait 4-5 years for a visa if they could apply to Australia and have their case processed within 12 months or so.

This approach, of using long waiting times as the main processing tool, is also the way the US family based immigrant visa system works. The criteria are such that the supply of potential applicants exceeds number of visas many times over, and the wait generally is many years long.

This third approach is by using a lottery. Such as the US Diversity Visa lottery.

The Australian government view is that by using option 1 - specific requirements - as the main program management tool, the best interests of Australia are served.

Jeremy

samon

Hi all,
I personally believe that the points set are at a desirable level,after taking into consideration all possible combinations/permutations to reach the cut of point.
This was done taking all factors af age, qulification, work experience etc into consideration and taking the mean of all such factors to reach at a level which is fair and applicable to all cross section of would be diverse applicants.
Now there is one viable system, instead of innumerous systems subdivided into other subgroups to make it complex and confusing.
Ofcourse the time frames might be down at other places, but there is no continuity in the system and it is changed at random at these places.
Many applicants who had qualified a few days before find themselves stranded because of abrupt change.
The solid stable point system in Canada is the most lucrative aspect which is attracting people of diverse trades and profession to apply.
Simply raising the points without any practical vision would be ludicrous. That too in the name of clearing the backlog.

gooding

i do see your point, but one thing this forum has shown to me , is hardly any of us know how old we all are? I am in my 40's and it was normal to leave school at 16 , you were not frowned upon. To me this is equivalent as leaving High School especially as they say Canada is behind the UK education system. I started school at 4 ( not nursery), whereas I saw that some schools start canadian kids at 6. You do not need A levels or Uni to be a builder or carpenter. It was normal to go straight into these jobs at 16. Often family run business, and not the proven apprenticeship that CIC require you to have with certificates.
For many it was not their decision if you continue at school, it was their parents who could not afford to send all kids to college or UNi. Leaving school at 16 an doing an apprenticship that did not finish with a certificate was OK, it was what you learnt that mattered. Getting references from all employers was also not important. If you are "skilled worker" and to me that is not necessarily a UNi graduate, it is someone that has a true vocation, who can prove those skills through work gained from experience not yet another college course that gives you a piece of paper to hang on the wall.

When you are busy working in 20's or 30's you dont look to the future and think Oh I must collect that certificate or that reference incase I want to emigrate.

Also as far as french is concerned how many people really ever use it in UK? or even Canada?
I did 8 years of it and have never used it complete waste of time. I intend to go to BC where I have yet to meet anyone who speaks it, i have asked many people if they use it and they say no. Like us most had time for French speaking Canadians, and said they only learnt it because they had to like us.

We learn German in Uk and what the hell use is that to us. We should be learning Spanish as this is one of the most widely used languages in the world. Mexicans are working in Canada now!

There has to be a cut off point with points, and there will never be a good time to increase the points again, as it is bound to hurt someone. When they decreased the points all those that had been rejected by say one point when they were at the higher rate must have been gutted, to think they had to start all over again.

From reading on this forum there are many Uni grads that go to Canada that score the points that cant get a job, or in the field they trained for, What use is it scoring the points to find you cannot get work, and end up in a job, purely because you need to to survive. Good craftsmen and tradesmen will always find work. We have been trying to get a landscapers to do our garden in Canada, we tried 5 people, only one came around. All said they were too busy and did not have enough staff and could not get any. Our builder was working long hours and again did not have enough staff to do all the work required. There must be a problem somewhere and a need for manual workers.
Do the Canadians not want to do the jobs? Cause if not they need to get those that do in to the country. With al the building going on it is a gold mine for them. You would not believe how many houses our builder owns. He is a property millionaire, with no time to enjoy it.

jjanj

Hello again
I am glad that I have managed to stimulate a debate however I believe that a few people have misunderstood my point which is that there are many applicants who left school at 16 and became very good trades people without doing much college time. They do not have any connections to Canada and don't speak French. Their spouses may well have chosen the extremely difficult and important role of being a homemaker/Mother/Father/ whatever, whose work is multi skilled and much more difficult than most jobs but alas unrecognized for the purpose of gaining points. Therefore the prospect of getting 75 points or above is almost impossible. However I am informed that this is not the case and 75 points is achievable which leaves me more than confused. Despite what most of the pro-75 pointers think the think tank of the Canadian Govt. would also appear to think along the same lines as myself and many others or they would not have lowered the mark. They must also have felt that the 75 points was not attracting the types of skills the country needs and which are the backbone of any economy. Again just my opinion.

Although I am not attacking anyone but I do suspect by reading many of the posts many are not in favour of the current pass mark and feel that anyone with fewer than 75 points is of little use to Canada because the have just managed to scrape around 67 points instead of 75. Well all I can say is that it's just as well they do not make the rules, just my opinion.

For those of you who have been lucky enough to have worked in Canada, have family or have a spouse with a PHD and got extra points, congratulations you don't know how lucky you are. But please remember many who are applying have not been that fortunate. Many have just laid bricks, replaced engines, plastered walls, fixed tiles etc, etc., for the past 10- 20 years or so in UK or whatever and become experts at doing so. Lets not look down our noses at people just because they don't speak 2 languages or have 5 years worth of post secondary education credentials. I would suggest that these people look up Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. You should be able to find it on the internet. I hope it gives you food for thought.

some People maybe wondering if I am one of those people who could not get 75 points. Yes I am, I have 4 years full time at technical college but will probably only get 3 years because my credentials are diplomas and certificates and not a batchelors or honours degree or PHD, Over 4 years experience in my trade, I don't speak french, I would like to but quite frankly am too busy to find the time. I have no relatives in Canada. I was not schooled or ever employed in Canada. My partner is Ex armed forces and police and is currently at university but gets very few points for that until completion in a few years. My partner speaks no French and has no connections with Canada. What I do wonder is what many would think if the points were always set at 90 because after all I believe there is a potential to score 100 points. Therefore should we also look down our noses at those with less than 100 points?

As I said in my initial post, many of those who are struggling to make the points are experts in their field whatever it my be. They are needed because most of us can't do what they can do. The Canadian Govt. will also verify this. However many of the people who post think that because many applicants don't speak another language and they can't muster 75 points they should not even be considered as a migrant. I feel that this is a very cold attitude and reeks of snobbery. All I can say is that unless people with those views can fix cars, have construction skills, dress making skills,welding skills, cooking skills etc,etc. Please have a little respect for the competency of people who can and the contribution they can make even if they don't get maximum points for education or speak French. Also please remember the next time you need the services of a skilled person what your views were. I have now said enough. I wish all those who are struggling the vey best of luck. I for one realize the contribution any skilled person can make.
REGARDS
J
PS I also respect the right of everyone to their own opinion. Thats what makes us interesting.