jjanj

Hi everyone,
I read the forum often but don't often post. Today and on other occaiions I read a post with a number of replies which seem to express displeasure at the lowering of the current pass mark to 67. I fully understand the logistical difficulties of processing the increased numbers but I can't understand why there are those who disaprove and think 67 is too low.

Quite often in order to obtain 75 one would need to have good university qualifications or to be in a hi-tec job with a uni background. I have a slight problem with that and consider people who agree with the higher passmark to sometimes suffer from tunnel vision.

I presume that most people enjoy a certain standard of living compared with some third world countries. Most peeple live in houses or enjoy services provided by trades people who perhaps have not been to university but still provide essential skills, people such as plumbers, carpenters, carpet fitters, roofers, tilers, bricklayers, mechanics, cooks, chefs, bakers, electricians, hairdressers, police, firefighters, plasterers, concrete workers etc.

Many of these skills do not require university training and some not necessarily college training as on the job trainig is the only good teacher for some skills. However they are still highly skilled jobs that most of us could not even dream of performing. Just because they did not go to uni this does not mean that their abilities are any less than a persons who has a PHD. This is of course, unless people on university PHD courses or batchelor courses are taught the above skills. In that event I would totally agree with a nation of degree holders with no need for anyone else. Please do not misunderstand me I am not graduate bashing but I have read some posts that insinuate that unless you hold a degree you are an ignorant oink who should not be allowed to apply for immigration because you just clog up the system.

Canada needs these people in order to prosper and provide the comfort that many first world countries enjoy and indeed allow them to join the ranks of first world countries. These workers bring many absolutely essential skills that are not and could not be taught in university. Even if they could, not everyone would have the aptiude to be able to learn those skills. I went to college for 4 years to learn my trade but under the old system I would not be able to muster sufficient points to apply.

There seems to be another form of discrimination by some and that discrimination is university-ism. I for one believe that the points drop was not only good economic sense but also essential to the future of canada. If you doubt what I say I suggest you look at the plight of Australia who is currently experiencing a skilled trade shortfall of around 20,000. Many of those required are non tertiary trades. I am expecting quite a bit of flack for this and hopefully some people will agree. Come on folks you know who you are, please give people an even break especially those without 16 years of education.
Thanks for your time
j

ClosedAccount-xyz

I totally agree with everything you said. We are struggling to get the points as husband has a skilled trade job, and even though has a trade card, didnt go to uni or college but has 18 years experience in the same job. but that doesnt get us any where as far as points are concerned. The only way for us is to get a job offer first...
Jeanette

Platty

We have the same problem too

MarkG

Yeah, the points system seems distinctly screwy to me. 67 points is basically a single person with a bachelor's degree, good english and four years of experience in a qualifying career, but no pre-arranged job... I don't see how any sane government could justify disqualifying all those people by raising the points score.

The other thing is, while I applied months ago and forget the details, it seemed rather biased towards couples rather than single applicants. I got 69 points by myself, whereas if my girlfriend wasn't Canadian we'd have got more like 80 points.

Craftybanshee

We're struggling with points too. Neither of us went to University but my DH has a very good job as a Project Manager. He is about the only person in his Company without a degree and has always had to compete against graduates.

We thought we had enough points but we now find we don't (got a rejection letter last month). CHC have said they may re-open our file if my husband does the TEF test, which is he is currently studying daily for. I've had to provide proof of my post-secondary qualification, which I now have documentary evidence of. If all goes well with this we will reach the passmark, otherwise we will apply again and either go back to college or try the work permit route. It's a long slog but I know we'll get there in the end.

Andrew Miller

Most trades people can score higher in education factor (22 points) than candidates with single Bachelors degree (20 points) - so, there is no discrimination here. Points matrix reflects Canada's need for trades people who have documented qualifications (gained through school and/or through apprenticeship) and experience. So, one doesn't need to complete university degree to score 22 points in education factor. And they can easy score much higher total than those with Bachelors degree. Thus your point is simply false.

More - most Provinces offer PNP programs for skilled trades people. It is also quite easy for trades people with skills which are in shortage in Canada to get a job offer thus to get extra 10 or 15 points. Trades people with occupations which are in shortage in Canada have absolutely no problems scoring well above 75 points. Only those who cannot (or don't want to or don't know how to) prove their qualifications and/or wait for job to come to them instead of finding it on their own will have difficulties.

Lowering pass mark to 67 points didn't help at all trades people as they didn't need such help - but it helped hundreds of thousands of candidates with single Bachelors degree to qualify and guess what? All of them applied and flooded the system. Now everybody waits years for process to conclude.

So, if so many are upset about long (and getting longer) processing times then 67 points pass mark is to blame here.

MarkG

Out of interest, how many companies will offer someone a job knowing they'll have to wait over a year to get PR?

The only possible way I could see to qualify under the 75 points system was to get a temporary work permit and apply for PR from Canada. To me it seems mad to disqualify so many skilled people just because they can't get a job before they arrive.

frankieforehead

The points system appears to me to be possibly the fairest way for selection... If you cannot meet the points required then there is no vacancy...May I suggest that if you feel this area is where you might fall down on...that you quickly enrole in course to gain extra quals and extra years for your education.

And before I get barraged by replies...I'm as thick as two short planks...But I thought I might fall down in this area, so went and did something about it...It also meant that I put off applying for a couple of years, but it has all worked out in the end....and the time flew by.

Rich_007

Proven by evidence that couples settle easier/quicker due to mutual support domestically and creation of wider support network, better chance of securing employment (one out of two, better chances of an income for the household) and longer term settlement potential, less chance of moving on to pastures new after relocation.

Sorry, don't have stats to hand but it is empirically proven.

Rich.

Rich_007

Certain sectors in medical profession, if niche area of operation, for sure.
Proves the theory that fulfilling demand is managed flexibly depending on supply of relevant qualified and experienced applicants.

And some don't want to bother with WP as they know what they want and why and will wait rather then have somebody just fill a post quickly.

Rich.

Andrew Miller

They don't have to wait, they may get work permits quite easy, especially if job is in occupation on shortage list.

Every year in past 5 or so years over 110,000 foreign workers are admitted to Canada with work permits and most of them secured job offers without being in Canada first.

Job won't come to you - it is you who must find it. And not finding it tells something about your adaptability skills (lack of) too.

More - 90% or more of those with work permits who are already in Canada will apply for their PR visas too. And they will score well above 75 points. And the reality is that they alone can easy fill every year full 2 annual quotas allocated to skilled workers class (about 120,000 total quota out of which less than 60,000 will be principal applicants).

JAJ

Would you agree that a well managed immigration program should give priority (in terms processing PR application) to those who have settled in Canada with a work permit?

It doesn't at the moment, at least as far as I am aware.

Jeremy

Andrew Miller

Yes, I totally agree. Unfortunately current program doesn't do it. maybe because most of them apply through Buffalo and there are no preferences given to work permit or approved job offer holders like in some other posts.
Many on work permits are experiencing longer processing times than those abroad, although as long as their work permits are valid they have nothing to worry as they can live and work here and they have health coverage as well.

gooding

I do feel the points system is extremely fair. There has to be some rules , unlike England who have only just decided they should do the same.

However there is a big difference in ages on this forum and for many applicants the option to go to college or collect certificates to prove what they can do was not there in my generation for many reasons. Many true apprenticeships died in UK years ago. Unless like my husband you were in the services.
I was told recently a story about a teacher who took students to a college where they were shown various "trademans" courses ie carpentry plumbing etc. As he walked out the door he turned to the class and said " There you go that's what you could end up doing if you dont pass your GCSE's!"

Not much encouragment. Plumbers get a very good wage here.
In my generation we were also told if you don't get qualifications you'd end up a hairdresser, Well Australia have had hairdressers in the top of their wanted occupations list for past 10 years. Most leave school at 16 and have no certificates etc to prove what they can do. move around in their job.

I was amazed that just about everything you do in Canada needs a certificate for, to me it does not prove you are capable of doing a good job.

Many people I know went into family businesses, they learnt on the job, they did not go to college and have nothing on paper to prove what they can do. The have not needed too, How many people ask a carpenter, plumber , or builder for their college certificates before asking them to do a job? They usually come on recommendation.

I certainly did not ask my builder in Canada to see his college certificates . I asked him to show me a house he had already built after he was recommended.

The down side to emigration is when you have to show paper work to prove hours worked, true income and references if you work for yourself. Unfortunaltey for many their income is not probably their true worth as so many of them work cash in hand. It is only when you try something like emigrating that these things become a barrier.



in education factor (22 points) than candidates with single Bachelors degree (20 points) - so, there is no discrimination here. Points matrix reflects Canada's need for trades people who have documented qualifications (gained through school and/or through apprenticeship) and experience. So, one doesn't need to complete university degree to score 22 points in education factor. And they can easy score much higher total than those with Bachelors degree. Thus your point is simply false.

SANDRAPAUL

If that were the case those with families relying on their parents to make a long term committment to their education and safeguard would be penalised for not applying for a work permit and choosing the safer albeit longer route. Those who are single or couples can be much more flexible and adaptable if the aranged employment position suddenly dissappeared. Whilst a permit is for a given time there is nevertheless extra pressure on parents to find work fast due to the eventual recognition of being removed and as it seems it can take quite some time to find work and that might be intollerable and very tense - not a good way of starting a new family orientated life perhaps.