what do you get for your money?

Old Mar 24th 2007, 9:07 am
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Question what do you get for your money?

I realise that all case's are unique to themselves but I am asking for more helpful advice from people on this forum , regarding immigration lawyers/consultants , my own case is this , I am a british citizen , my wife is canadian, my step-daughter is Canadian and my son is duel citizen Canadian/british and our next arrival(due Aug 13ish) will also eventually be duel citizen , so to me this seems fairly straight forward for my wife to sponsor me and we can get all the forms on line , but having done a fair bit of research , other things pop u like tax , pensions , etc , is this stuff that a immigration consultant/lawyer can help with or are they such specialized topics that it is best to hire another member of the legal profession? realise it's a bit long winded, thanks to anyone who replies
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 8:16 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Originally Posted by petesdragon
I realise that all case's are unique to themselves but I am asking for more helpful advice from people on this forum , regarding immigration lawyers/consultants , my own case is this , I am a british citizen , my wife is canadian, my step-daughter is Canadian and my son is duel citizen Canadian/british and our next arrival(due Aug 13ish) will also eventually be duel citizen , so to me this seems fairly straight forward for my wife to sponsor me and we can get all the forms on line , but having done a fair bit of research , other things pop u like tax , pensions , etc , is this stuff that a immigration consultant/lawyer can help with or are they such specialized topics that it is best to hire another member of the legal profession? realise it's a bit long winded, thanks to anyone who replies
Hi,
As you say each case is unique, but our experience for what it's worth, is of using a lawyer to help with the forms etc. We decided to use a lawyer as family history is a bit disjointed, we also felt that the lawyers are regulated by the law society, (Quebec in our case), where as the consultants appear to regulate themselves. Our lawyer in Quebec was quite helpful, to start with and he did help us complete the forms in the best way. But I also did some searching and found that we were required to complete extra forms, (he was apparently unaware of these forms as they were a new requirement???). We completed all the forms, I hope, and later asked some further questions, response has been really quite patchy and have not contacted him for about a year, as there has been no real need. We have sent off the updated info following the 90 day letter and hope to hear very soon. Sorry can't be more help, just our experience. Good luck.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 8:21 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Originally Posted by petesdragon
Ihaving done a fair bit of research , other things pop u like tax , pensions , etc , is this stuff that a immigration consultant/lawyer can help with or are they such specialized topics that it is best to hire another member of the legal profession? realise it's a bit long winded, thanks to anyone who replies
Hi Petesdragon

Think if you need stuff in the above quote - what about a "relocation" company as they could very well have contacts in the other areas you made. Where are u off to ? If it's BC Franknsense on here is some sort of relocator and realtor - maybe he could offer some advice

Gaynor
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 8:22 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Originally Posted by Tartan Flyer
... we also felt that the lawyers are regulated by the law society, (Quebec in our case), where as the consultants appear to regulate themselves.
What planet are you from? Where did you find that consultants are not regulated???

Consulting, advising and representing in Canadian immigration matters is a regulated profession:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/departm.../rep-what.html

Immigration consultants are regulated harsher than lawyers and even more than notaries in Quebec.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 8:44 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
What planet are you from? Where did you find that consultants are not regulated???

Consulting, advising and representing in Canadian immigration matters is a regulated profession:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/departm.../rep-what.html

Immigration consultants are regulated harsher than lawyers and even more than notaries in Quebec.
If you read my reply, you'll find that I didn't say that "consultants are not regulated"
I contacted various lawyers and consultants and it seemed that the lawyers are regulated by the law society and that consultants have their own regulatory body. I made a choice of Lawyer over Consultant because I preferred their advice, perhaps it was just the people I spoke to. Don't think this really helps with the original question, it is just my experience.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 9:32 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

I didn't state that you say consultants are not regulated. You simply repeated what your lawyer wanted you to believe - that lawyers are regulated by some independent body, while "consultants regulate themselves". The truth is the other way around - lawyers are fully self-regulating, while consultants are not yet.

Lawyers have their own regulatory bodies - the Law Societies fully controlled by lawyers themselves.

Consultants have different regulatory body - CSIC, created by government and still not fully self-regulating.

Both serve the same purpose and while Law Societies are really lawyers regulating themselves the CSIC is not yet fully self-regulating body, it is still partially under government imposed rules.

CSIC was created by government and government imposed the rules, government regulated members, CSIC members didn't and still cannot fully regulate themselves, unlike lawyers who do it already for ages through their law societies.

But lawyers will always use smoke screen to get their clients and say anything to discourage use of consultants.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Mar 28th 2007 at 9:43 am.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 9:52 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
I didn't state that you say consultants are not regulated. You simply repeated what your lawyer wanted you to believe - that lawyers are regulated by some independent body, while "consultants regulate themselves". The truth is the other way around - lawyers are fully self-regulating, while consultants are not yet.

Lawyers have their own regulatory bodies - the Law Societies fully controlled by lawyers themselves.

Consultants have different regulatory body - CSIC, created by government and still not fully self-regulating.

Both serve the same purpose and while Law Societies are really lawyers regulating themselves the CSIC is not yet fully self-regulating body, it is still partially under government imposed rules.

CSIC was created by government and government imposed the rules, government regulated members, CSIC members didn't and still cannot fully regulate themselves, unlike lawyers who do it already for ages through their law societies.

But lawyers will always use smoke screen to get their clients and say anything to discourage use of consultants.
I'm sure there are good and bad on both sides. As I understand it, a lawyer is able to represent and/or attend with an applicant at any meeting thay may need with the CHC, where as a consultant is not able to attend. Just to finish I'd like to reiterate that I based my choice to use a lawyer, on the answers to a few questions I asked, and have no connection to any law society or consultant.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 10:43 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Another myth spread by many lawyers who don't like the competition.

The only interviews when applicants can have a representative present (both, lawyers and consultants may be present) are Quebec and some PNP interviews. In federal process applicant cannot have any representative present. Whoever told you this nonsense was obviously lying to you.

The only place where consultant cannot represent (but can assist) is a Federal Court. But lower level appeals in IRB's Appeal Division can be handled equally by consultants and lawyers.

If case has to go to court it means it was either (1) bad case from the beginning and shouldn't have been accepted by either lawyer or consultant in the first place, or (2) was mishandled by applicant and/or his/her representative. Of course lwayers love cases that require to be challenged in court - this is where lawyers make their $400 to $700 per hour plus expenses.

But again - everything below Federal Court's level can be handled by consultant.

Last edited by Andrew Miller; Mar 28th 2007 at 10:46 am.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 10:49 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

just thinking if you hire a lawyer dont they just download forms as they have no major knowledge in area of immigration. You even said you had found some extra forms they did not tell you about. I guess a lawyer just helps get it all togather. I think a specailist consultant maybe can do same thing and also have extra knowledge of how immigration works. I myself did it all myself but if I was going to hire someone I would hire a very professional specialist.
If you case is straitforward then you can download all the forms yourself and do plenty of research and should be easy. That a choice only you can make depending on your case specifics.
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Old Mar 28th 2007, 10:55 am
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Default Re: what do you get for your money?

Very good point liquidsuite,

Any lawyer can be a representative in immigration case, regardless that s/he may only have expertise in real estate, corporate, divorce or other field and never before was dealing with any immigration case.

On the other side CSIC members (both lawyers and consultants) must pass a full, complex exam from exlusively immigration and citizenship laws and have the obligation to collect enough credits every year by attending continuous education in immigration field as well as pass periodical exams.

And yes, many of us CSIC members are lawyers who simply decided that our business model fits us better if we work as consultants instead of practicing the law.
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