Vocational questions...

Old Sep 24th 2008, 4:48 am
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Default Vocational questions...

Hi all,

Wondered if anyone can give us some general advice on emigrating to Canada, based on our vocations.

My better half is a very qualified hairdresser of 14 years, with NVQ Level 3 along with certificates for hair extensions, national color competition and hairdressing certificates etc. She is also state registered as a Senior Stylist and will soon qualify as a Master Craftsman (end of Sept 08). She also owns her own salon at present, employing 2 staff.

I on the other hand have a rather odd vocation as I am a luthier / guitar technician, repairing and occasionally building guitars (it's expensive to build guitars, and there's not a lot of profit in it, hence I only built a few). Anyway I also have a Level 5 HNC in Musical Instrument Technology to help matters. I can be seen at www.theguitardoctor.co.uk if there's still a few doubts as to what I do...!!

I also own and run a Music Shop in Staffordshire, managing 2 staff and obviously all the ordering, selling, and day to day running of a retail music store. I hope to leave the music store as an ongoing investment if I leave (with a Manager running it, being paid + commission, for the incentives), this way I have an income from this whilst I move on to pastures new. I could always sell if needed.

My vocation is not listed anywhere, so I'm in the dark with it as regards to the in demand list, although my OH's vocation is listed as needed in Alberta (where we were thinking of heading anyway)....would we be better to apply under my OH's skills, mine, or another way all together? We have friends in Calgary, so another (faster) plan was to head over for a couple of weeks and stay with them for a proper recce / job search. Also, as they are friends, who would happily let us live in their converted basement, can they offer to support an application? I think they are on a PR application at present.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I tried to get plenty of info in...!!

regards, Rich
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 5:15 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

my husband would let you live with us for free he is guitar obsessed

one of his few complaints about nova scotia is absolutlry zero guitar shops or anything to do with guitars

have you thought about nova scotia community identified its perhaps the quickest stress free way to get PR

you would sail through with your backgrounds id bet

and my husband would keep you in business for evermore I kid you not!!!
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 5:37 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
My better half is a very qualified hairdresser of 14 years, with NVQ Level 3 along with certificates for hair extensions, national color competition and hairdressing certificates etc. She is also state registered as a Senior Stylist and will soon qualify as a Master Craftsman (end of Sept 08). She also owns her own salon at present, employing 2 staff.
I am guessing it would be better for your other half to be the principal applicant.

Her occupation belongs to Skill Level B on the National Occupational Classification Matrix. That means that, if she got a temporary work permit, you automatically would be eligible for a spousal open work permit (SOWP). It would allow you to accept any job with any employer in any part of Canada. It also would allow you to be self-employed.

The one caveat is that foreign hair stylists have to do an exam in order to be licensed in Alberta. Members of this forum who have done it have stated it's a doddle.

A common complaint on this forum is that Canadian hair stylists are awful. I personally don't agree with that, but it's a widely held opinion. There are several members of this forum who would beat a path to your other half's door if she set up business in their part of Canada.

I on the other hand have a rather odd vocation as I am a luthier / guitar technician, repairing and occasionally building guitars (it's expensive to build guitars, and there's not a lot of profit in it, hence I only built a few). Anyway I also have a Level 5 HNC in Musical Instrument Technology to help matters. I can be seen at www.theguitardoctor.co.uk if there's still a few doubts as to what I do...!!
This sounds like a fascinating occupation. But, as you already seem to have gathered, it doesn't fit very tidily into the Canadian government's boxes. The closest match I could find on the NOC list was not very promising from an immigration point of view. It did not fall under Skill Level 0, A or B on the NOC Matrix.

However, if your other half was the principal applicant and you were entitled to an SOWP, this wouldn't matter.

My vocation is not listed anywhere, so I'm in the dark with it as regards to the in demand list, although my OH's vocation is listed as needed in Alberta (where we were thinking of heading anyway)....would we be better to apply under my OH's skills, mine, or another way all together?
I think it would be better for your OH to be the principal applicant.

We have friends in Calgary, so another (faster) plan was to head over for a couple of weeks and stay with them for a proper recce / job search.
A recce trip is a very, very, very, very, very good idea.

Also, as they are friends, who would happily let us live in their converted basement, can they offer to support an application?
Sorry, no.

Suggest you read the Canada section of the BE Wiki. Seriously, it's the best thing you can do to get up to speed. But be warned, it's a lot of reading. You'll go through lots of your favourite brew. Just break it down into chunks and take one thing at a time.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 5:45 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Hi again, Rich.

I've just noticed that you have 926 posts under your belt.

I didn't realize you were an established member of the forum. Your questions sounded to me like those of a newbie, and I gave you my standard response, namely, read the Wiki.

But, in having a quick look at your previous posts, most of them have not been in the Canada forum. So, from the point of view of Canadian immigration, it's probably fair to say that you still are a newbie.

So my advice stands. The biggest favours you can do for yourselves, in my opinion, are to read the Wiki and to go on a recce trip.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 6:06 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by chumley
my husband would let you live with us for free he is guitar obsessed

one of his few complaints about nova scotia is absolutlry zero guitar shops or anything to do with guitars

have you thought about nova scotia community identified its perhaps the quickest stress free way to get PR

you would sail through with your backgrounds id bet

and my husband would keep you in business for evermore I kid you not!!!
I'd consider NS, but it's a bit quiet for us I think...we're more used to a thriving music scene and I'd go insane without a guitar shop nearby....thanks for the offer though...!
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 6:17 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Hi again, Rich.

I've just noticed that you have 926 posts under your belt.

I didn't realize you were an established member of the forum. Your questions sounded to me like those of a newbie, and I gave you my standard response, namely, read the Wiki.

But, in having a quick look at your previous posts, most of them have not been in the Canada forum. So, from the point of view of Canadian immigration, it's probably fair to say that you still are a newbie.

So my advice stands. The biggest favours you can do for yourselves, in my opinion, are to read the Wiki and to go on a recce trip.
x
Hi there,

Yes, I joined a long time ago, went to NZ, but due to a crazy ex OH, (who now lives abroad!!), we came screaming back after a few months as she was so homesick. Needless to say, her living abroad now (Denmark) is a bit of a kick in the stomach, but as we broke up, it was probably the best thing at the time in hindsight, as there were lots of problems which were hidden by the process of emigrating and getting lost in all that.

Canada appeals as we have a network there, which will help in every aspect. The emigrating bug never left, it just dropped to a back burner after a very emotional time. NZ was great until I fell out with it due to my situation, but it's very remote, and sometimes this is harder than people realise. At least Canada is only a few hours away if homesickness deems a flight to the UK for a reality check. As you can see, it's taken nearly 4 years to get to this point, so it's not like I've gone "oh well, that failed, lets try again"...it's been seriously debated, and these posts are my first venture into relevant information...

Thanks for the advice, common sense told us that my OH's skills were better utilised as the principal applicant as it's listed. I take it that a good agent is essential for a successful application...? That, or we could always go the way my friend did, and score a job offer before we put in for an LMO/TWP/PR...

regards, Rich

Last edited by theguitardoctor; Sep 24th 2008 at 6:28 am.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 6:44 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
As you can see, it's taken nearly 4 years to get to this point, so it's not like I've gone "oh well, that failed, lets try again"...it's been seriously debated, and these posts are my first venture into relevant information...
Point taken.

I take it that a good agent is essential for a successful application...?
No, I don't think that's necessarily true.

If people have complications (health issues, child custody issues, application via the business stream, etc.), an immigration consultant could be very helpful. Also, it might help to have an immigration consultant if the applicants were not methodical.

If you are willing to go over the application forms with a fine toothcomb, you can do it yourself.

or we could always go the way my friend did, and score a job offer before we put in for an LMO/TWP/PR...
Exactly.

An immigration consultant in any case cannot help you if you don't have a job offer.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 7:07 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Point taken.

No, I don't think that's necessarily true.

If people have complications (health issues, child custody issues, application via the business stream, etc.), an immigration consultant could be very helpful. Also, it might help to have an immigration consultant if the applicants were not methodical.

If you are willing to go over the application forms with a fine toothcomb, you can do it yourself.


Exactly.

x
Thanks agin for the information, I had thought an immigration agent was a must. We are fairly straightforward as we have no children, no criminal records or major medical problems (I have an old whiplash injury which keeps me on painkilllers, but that's all), so I expect we're uncomplicated?

The major plan before we do anything is to go for the recce and jobhunt from there. I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can with regards to the uphill climb we face....


Just to quiz this...
An immigration consultant in any case cannot help you if you don't have a job offer.

Could we not go the skilled worker route whereby we have the points needed etc...in which case, it's slower, I know...but in this instance, wouldn't a consultant help us fill the application out more favourably ?

regards, Rich.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
Thanks agin for the information
You're welcome.

We are fairly straightforward as we have no children, no criminal records or major medical problems (I have an old whiplash injury which keeps me on painkilllers, but that's all), so I expect we're uncomplicated?
You sound straightforward to me.

The major plan before we do anything is to go for the recce and jobhunt from there.
That is a brilliant idea.

I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can with regards to the uphill climb we face....
One of the best things you could do would be to read the info in the Job Hunting-Canada section of the Wiki. I particularly recommend Quick Job Hunting Instructions-Canada and Scouting Trip-Canada.

Could we not go the skilled worker route whereby we have the points needed etc.
No.

in which case, it's slower, I know
No. You are misinformed. It is not slower. Without pre-arranged employment, you will never get in ... ever. The only chance you have of getting in without pre-arranged employment, that I can think of, is the Nova Scotia Community Identified Stream.

And, yes, there are people who have gained entry to Canada by starting businesses and that type of thing. But so far we've been discussing the more conventional entry routes. If you start thinking about a business or some variation thereof, you cross the line from straighforward to complicated. In that case I definitely recomment that you use an immigration consultant.

I think you have a reasonable chance of getting in the more conventional way, with your OH being the principal applicant, so I don't think it would be worth your while to complicate things.

As I said before, your OH's temporary work permit would entitle you to a spousal open work permit that would authorize you to accept any job and also to be self-employed. If I am not mistaken, it would even authorize you to open a business.

So why go through the much more complicated (and hence more expensive) business application route?

but in this instance, wouldn't a consultant help us fill the application out more favourably ?
Well, you're still talking about a permanent residence visa application without pre-arranged employment, aren't you? There is no immigration consultant in the world who can overcome the deficiency that a lack of pre-arranged employment would represent.

My suggestion is that you get off the topic of immigration consultants for now. Until your OH has a job offer, the whole idea of moving to Canada is a non-starter, whichever way you slice it.

But, if you really want to investigate the idea of immigration consultants, I suggest you read the Wiki article called Immigration Consultants-Canada.

But really, the biggest favour you could do for yourself right now, aside from getting yourself up to speed with the job hunting process in Canada, is to familiarize yourself with Canadian immigration by reading the Canadian Immigration section of the Wiki.
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Last edited by Judy in Calgary; Sep 24th 2008 at 7:39 am. Reason: Forgot to include link to article on Immigration Consultants.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:00 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

I must be getting confused with things, or stating it confusingly...what I meant is that I read that you could literally be awarded a Temp Work Permit outside of Canada to allow you to land in Canada and jobhunt for a period of time, by going the points application route.

If this is not the case, what is the points system for? I don't mean that in a demeaning way, but I'm confused as to what the points system achieves if it doesn't allow a skilled applicant to apply for some sort of stay in Canada whilst they jobhunt. I'm also pretty sure I read (rules may have changed since) that skilled workers could be awarded PR, basically landing in Canada as residents....?? Maybe my brain erased the confirmed job part..it was a while ago I read it somewhere....!!

Sorry for all the questions...!!

all the best, Rich

I got this from one of the sites...hence my queries...

The Skilled Worker Visa for Canada is the most popular way of applying for migration to Canada. The Canada Skilled Worker Visa points selection system requires a pass mark of 67 out of 100 points and is assessed on six main factors including age, education, work experience, language ability and adaptability.

You can obtain your free Skilled Worker Visa for Canada assessment by using our Canada Skilled Worker Points Calculator .

Advantages of the Canada Skilled Worker Visa are:
The Canadian Skilled Worker Visa allows migration to Canada as a Permanent Resident, without the need for an employer or sponsor, to seek employment and apply for jobs following the exact same process as a resident skilled worker. Canada is keen to have skilled workers and this Canada migration points system is designed to encourage Canadian immigration by skilled workers.

You are able to accept a job and join a new employer without you and that employer needing to go through the work permit process

The Canada Skilled Worker Visa gives you the right to apply for Citizenship after 3 years, providing that you follow the necessary requirements to apply, thus making this visa a very attractive and popular method of Canadian immigration for skilled workers.

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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
I must be getting confused with things, or stating it confusingly...what I meant is that I read that you could literally be awarded a Temp Work Permit outside of Canada to allow you to land in Canada and jobhunt for a period of time, by going the points application route.

If this is not the case, what is the points system for? I don't mean that in a demeaning way, but I'm confused as to what the points system achieves if it doesn't allow a skilled applicant to apply for some sort of stay in Canada whilst they jobhunt. I'm also pretty sure I read (rules may have changed since) that skilled workers could be awarded PR, basically landing in Canada as residents....??

Sorry for all the questions...!!

all the best, Rich
You are mightily confused and unfortunately misinformed! You really, really, really need to read the Wiki (on blue bar at top of page) - start with the beginners guide to immigration which explains why the points system is basically useless at the moment!

To get a TWP, you need a job offer first (and not only that, you need something called a LMO which your potential employer has to apply for - basically proving that they've advertised the job across Canada for 3 months and been unable to find a Canadian citizen willing, or able, to do the job). There is no visa available to you that will enable you to go to Canada and jobhunt. You have to jobhunt first, find a job and then get the visa.

Hope that's helped a bit, make yourself a cuppa (or grab a beer!) and get reading that Wiki, you'll soon grasp it all.

Good luck.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:09 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
You are mightily confused and unfortunately misinformed! You really, really, really need to read the Wiki (on blue bar at top of page) - start with the beginners guide to immigration which explains why the points system is basically useless at the moment!

To get a TWP, you need a job offer first (and not only that, you need something called a LMO which your potential employer has to apply for - basically proving that they've advertised the job across Canada for 3 months and been unable to find a Canadian citizen willing, or able, to do the job). There is no visa available to you that will enable you to go to Canada and jobhunt. You have to jobhunt first, find a job and then get the visa.

Hope that's helped a bit, make yourself a cuppa (or grab a beer!) and get reading that Wiki, you'll soon grasp it all.

Good luck.

It's all the fault of sites like these then ... unfortunately I've taken these as informed, and the Wiki sites (because they are written by the General Public) as not always accurate...I will read it through properly though....

cheers, Rich
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
I got this from one of the sites...hence my queries...

The Skilled Worker Visa for Canada is the most popular way of applying for migration to Canada. The Canada Skilled Worker Visa points selection system requires a pass mark of 67 out of 100 points and is assessed on six main factors including age, education, work experience, language ability and adaptability.

You can obtain your free Skilled Worker Visa for Canada assessment by using our Canada Skilled Worker Points Calculator .

Advantages of the Canada Skilled Worker Visa are:
The Canadian Skilled Worker Visa allows migration to Canada as a Permanent Resident, without the need for an employer or sponsor, to seek employment and apply for jobs following the exact same process as a resident skilled worker. Canada is keen to have skilled workers and this Canada migration points system is designed to encourage Canadian immigration by skilled workers.

You are able to accept a job and join a new employer without you and that employer needing to go through the work permit process

The Canada Skilled Worker Visa gives you the right to apply for Citizenship after 3 years, providing that you follow the necessary requirements to apply, thus making this visa a very attractive and popular method of Canadian immigration for skilled workers.

That information is sort of correct. Put simply, it was correct before Feb 2008 (although it neglects to mention the visa processing time of 5-8 years at that point due to a huge backlog!). Since then, changes are being implemented to reduce that backlog. Basically, any application for a SW visa are now just being put on hold and are expected to be returned unless they have a job offer attached.

Hopefully now, you understand how vital it is to get yourself a job in Canada and go via a TWP (you can then apply for PR once there working, which is expedited and usually through within a year) - it's basically the only way of getting there anytime this century.

Hope that's helped clarify things a bit.
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:13 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
It's all the fault of sites like these then ... unfortunately I've taken these as informed, and the Wiki sites (because they are written by the General Public) as not always accurate...I will read it through properly though....

cheers, Rich

Thankfully, this site is very well informed so you can believe the Wiki on here! Mainly thanks to wonders like Judy who do the hard work and research involved.

Have fun reading.........
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Old Sep 24th 2008, 8:16 am
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Default Re: Vocational questions...

Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
The Skilled Worker Visa for Canada is the most popular way of applying for migration to Canada. The Canada Skilled Worker Visa points selection system requires a pass mark of 67 out of 100 points and is assessed on six main factors including age, education, work experience, language ability and adaptability.

Etc. etc. etc.
I did a Google search to find the website from which you got that information.

Yup, it's there all right, as bold as brass.

They should be boiled in oil for publishing hogwash like that.
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