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UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Old May 13th 2010, 3:17 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

as of 2008 a police caution is considered spent as soon as it is given. Check some other threads in this forum. You are not inadmissible for a caution, immigration officers now base uk convictions using the Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 mainly due to the ruling in the burgon court of appeals case, if you're in doubt submit a rehab form and check off for information only and they will tell you this officially. Or check the numerous other people in this forum who are getting the same replies from different visa offices, things often change and consultants and even lawyers are not always aware of this. I personally spoke to an immigration officer to confirm this and recieved a signed stamped letter explaining the decision in full. Be wary of advice its always best to talk to someone who is currently employed by the immigration services the are lines of communication when you want to clarify certain things.

A caution is not a conviction in england it is merely an admission of guilt, if asked you should declare it but immigration officers are aware it is NOT a conviction, so you have NOT been in a court and been convicted of an offense, so you answer no i have not been convicted of any offense BUT i once received a caution

Last edited by admissiblebrit; May 13th 2010 at 3:24 am.
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Old May 13th 2010, 3:45 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

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Old May 13th 2010, 3:46 am
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Old May 13th 2010, 4:30 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hi

Originally Posted by admissiblebrit
as of 2008 a police caution is considered spent as soon as it is given. Check some other threads in this forum. You are not inadmissible for a caution, immigration officers now base uk convictions using the Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 mainly due to the ruling in the burgon court of appeals case, if you're in doubt submit a rehab form and check off for information only and they will tell you this officially. Or check the numerous other people in this forum who are getting the same replies from different visa offices, things often change and consultants and even lawyers are not always aware of this. I personally spoke to an immigration officer to confirm this and recieved a signed stamped letter explaining the decision in full. Be wary of advice its always best to talk to someone who is currently employed by the immigration services the are lines of communication when you want to clarify certain things.

A caution is not a conviction in england it is merely an admission of guilt, if asked you should declare it but immigration officers are aware it is NOT a conviction, so you have NOT been in a court and been convicted of an offense, so you answer no i have not been convicted of any offense BUT i once received a caution

I have searched the "British and Irish case law & legislation" data bases and can't find any reference to Burgon and Cautions. Do you have the citation, so I can read it. There is no reference in the Federal Courts of Canada either.
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Old May 13th 2010, 4:37 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

http://reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2001/20...001fca311.html

there's stuff about the burgon case here, this isnt the burgon case itself but the relevent info is there if you scroll down to C. The Burgon Case and Subsequent Jurisprudence

Ive had this clarified through my lawyer i have a document stamped and signed by immigration clearly detailing what the immigration officers are instructed to do, ad it seems to be coming quite common also.

its a canadian ruling not a British / Irish one

57 Burgon, supra, footnote 4, at 61-62, 63. The Court had to consider the application of the United Kingdom
Powers of Criminal Courts Act, 1973, which provided that a person who was convicted of an offence (like
Burgon’s offence) and received a probation order was deemed not to be convicted of the offence. In the
Court’s view, Burgon was not considered convicted under United Kingdom law; therefore, because the
United Kingdom and Canadian legal systems were so similar, there was no conviction for purposes of the
Immigration Act. In Barnett, John v. M.C.I. (F.C.T.D., no. IMM-4280-94), Jerome, March 22, 1996.
Reported: Barnett v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration) (1996), 33 Imm. L.R. (2d) 1
(F.C.T.D.), where the Court considered the United Kingdom Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974, which
provided that, where a person was convicted and sentenced for certain offences and was then rehabilitated,
the conviction was expunged. The Court applied the rationale in Burgon and found that, although there
were differences in the two pieces of legislation, the effect was the same: under both statutes, the person
could not be said to have been convicted. Therefore, Barnett was not considered to have been convicted in
the United Kingdom and he was not convicted for purposes of the Immigration Act.


if you want to look up the case itself...

Burgon: Canada (Minister of Employment and Immigration) v. Burgon, [1991]

Obviously i wont be posting the letter anywhere as it contains detailed personal information but i will happily post comments made relating to the ruling, i did paraphrase this letter in one of the other threads

Last edited by admissiblebrit; May 13th 2010 at 5:06 am.
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Old May 13th 2010, 5:07 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hi

Originally Posted by admissiblebrit
http://reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2001/20...001fca311.html

there's stuff about the burgon case here, this isnt the burgon case itself but the relevent info is there if you scroll down to C. The Burgon Case and Subsequent Jurisprudence

Ive had this clarified through my lawyer i have a document stamped and signed by immigration clearly detailing what the immigration officers are instructed to do, ad it seems to be coming quite common also.

its a canadian ruling not a British / Irish one

57 Burgon, supra, footnote 4, at 61-62, 63. The Court had to consider the application of the United Kingdom
Powers of Criminal Courts Act, 1973, which provided that a person who was convicted of an offence (like
Burgon’s offence) and received a probation order was deemed not to be convicted of the offence. In the
Court’s view, Burgon was not considered convicted under United Kingdom law; therefore, because the
United Kingdom and Canadian legal systems were so similar, there was no conviction for purposes of the
Immigration Act. In Barnett, John v. M.C.I. (F.C.T.D., no. IMM-4280-94), Jerome, March 22, 1996.
Reported: Barnett v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration) (1996), 33 Imm. L.R. (2d) 1
(F.C.T.D.), where the Court considered the United Kingdom Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974, which
provided that, where a person was convicted and sentenced for certain offences and was then rehabilitated,
the conviction was expunged. The Court applied the rationale in Burgon and found that, although there
were differences in the two pieces of legislation, the effect was the same: under both statutes, the person
could not be said to have been convicted. Therefore, Barnett was not considered to have been convicted in
the United Kingdom and he was not convicted for purposes of the Immigration Act.


if you want to look up the case itself...

Burgon: Canada (Minister of Employment and Immigration) v. Burgon, [1991]

The first certified question

1. In the absence of evidence as to the motivating considerations which led to the grant of a pardon by another state jurisdiction, is a Canadian Court bound by the pardon?

The court answered No.
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Old May 13th 2010, 5:18 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

ok this is exactly how is was explained to me, ive gone through numerous, well i guess you could call them official channels to clarify this....in the officers own words.

"previous jurisprudence namely the burgon federal court of appeals case instructed immigration officials to generally assess UK convictions under the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act 1974 instead of provisions of the immigration $ refugee act"

it further goes on to say i'm no longer a person described under A36(1)(b) and A36(2)(b) IRPA for criminality abroad.

I followed this up mainly out of paranoia that someone would say no no thats wrong, and it stands up it is a very real thing in rehab decisions that fall UK ROA 1974. Basically in laymans terms it was explained to me that our laws being similar built on similar foundations are recognised by canada, and as such immigration officers can look at this to make their decisions
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Old May 23rd 2010, 6:18 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

I have a caution on my police record, it is 2 1/2 years old.

Canada granted me PR status April 2010.

They did not find me inadmissible, they were only interested in the fact I had never been charged with a crime. Neither were they interested in what the caution was for.
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Old May 23rd 2010, 7:42 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by anewPR
I have a caution on my police record, it is 2 1/2 years old.

Canada granted me PR status April 2010.

They did not find me inadmissible, they were only interested in the fact I had never been charged with a crime. Neither were they interested in what the caution was for.
You are very lucky! They wrote wanting more information from the police about my husband's caution from SIX years ago! It was only drunk and disorderly in a public place, he was too drunk so they chucked him in jail for the night to sober up. Yet it's delaying our file for something so trivial and silly that was done when he was only 24! He has had no other problems whatsoever with the police.
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Old May 24th 2010, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by FStone
You are very lucky! They wrote wanting more information from the police about my husband's caution from SIX years ago! It was only drunk and disorderly in a public place, he was too drunk so they chucked him in jail for the night to sober up. Yet it's delaying our file for something so trivial and silly that was done when he was only 24! He has had no other problems whatsoever with the police.
Hi,

Possibly another experience....
My husband had a Caution for Possession of a Class C drug, 6-and-a-half years ago.
Prior to submitting our application for PR under the FSW program, with him as the primary applicant, we requested his Police/ACPO Cert.
This DID show the caution specifics from July '03, I half expected it might say NO LIVE TRACE, with it being a few years ago, but it didn't.

When I actually submitted our application to Sydney, I spent ages researching, asking Q's & debating whether to complete the criminal rehab forms etc., and following this, decided to submit our application with NO crim rehab form, but a full explanation.

Box 9; "Yes" was ticked to confirm he had involvement in criminal activity. We then used the box to describe the circumstances of the caution. I then went onto a 2nd page and described in full the UK caution system, relevant bit of the Rehabilitaiton of Offenders Act saying it's spent, which statute under Canadian Law that the offence was likeable to and why I believed that I was deemed rehabilitated, using the bits that i'd just quoted. I then stated things like, haven't offended since, was a first & last offence, currently run own business, now married to a Police Officer etc......

We have since received our 120 day e-mail asking us to submit docs to London. Nowhere, is anything mentioned about completing & submitting any criminal rehab forms and submitting them with our full application. They have not requested anymore information. Criminality/cautions has not been mentioned.

We're therefore submitting our application and presuming/hoping that it won't be mentioned again! Any similar experiences - did anyone else get asked for further clarification after submitting 120 day documents?

Regards, katie
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Old May 25th 2010, 1:52 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hi

Originally Posted by misskatpaw
Hi,

Possibly another experience....
My husband had a Caution for Possession of a Class C drug, 6-and-a-half years ago.
Prior to submitting our application for PR under the FSW program, with him as the primary applicant, we requested his Police/ACPO Cert.
This DID show the caution specifics from July '03, I half expected it might say NO LIVE TRACE, with it being a few years ago, but it didn't.

When I actually submitted our application to Sydney, I spent ages researching, asking Q's & debating whether to complete the criminal rehab forms etc., and following this, decided to submit our application with NO crim rehab form, but a full explanation.

Box 9; "Yes" was ticked to confirm he had involvement in criminal activity. We then used the box to describe the circumstances of the caution. I then went onto a 2nd page and described in full the UK caution system, relevant bit of the Rehabilitaiton of Offenders Act saying it's spent, which statute under Canadian Law that the offence was likeable to and why I believed that I was deemed rehabilitated, using the bits that i'd just quoted. I then stated things like, haven't offended since, was a first & last offence, currently run own business, now married to a Police Officer etc......

We have since received our 120 day e-mail asking us to submit docs to London. Nowhere, is anything mentioned about completing & submitting any criminal rehab forms and submitting them with our full application. They have not requested anymore information. Criminality/cautions has not been mentioned.

We're therefore submitting our application and presuming/hoping that it won't be mentioned again! Any similar experiences - did anyone else get asked for further clarification after submitting 120 day documents?

Regards, katie
Remember London (or what ever visa office) has not seen your application, as you received your 120 day letter based on only the NOC claimed in your application to Sydney.
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Old May 25th 2010, 3:20 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by misskatpaw
Hi,

Possibly another experience....
My husband had a Caution for Possession of a Class C drug, 6-and-a-half years ago.
Prior to submitting our application for PR under the FSW program, with him as the primary applicant, we requested his Police/ACPO Cert.
This DID show the caution specifics from July '03, I half expected it might say NO LIVE TRACE, with it being a few years ago, but it didn't.

When I actually submitted our application to Sydney, I spent ages researching, asking Q's & debating whether to complete the criminal rehab forms etc., and following this, decided to submit our application with NO crim rehab form, but a full explanation.

Box 9; "Yes" was ticked to confirm he had involvement in criminal activity. We then used the box to describe the circumstances of the caution. I then went onto a 2nd page and described in full the UK caution system, relevant bit of the Rehabilitaiton of Offenders Act saying it's spent, which statute under Canadian Law that the offence was likeable to and why I believed that I was deemed rehabilitated, using the bits that i'd just quoted. I then stated things like, haven't offended since, was a first & last offence, currently run own business, now married to a Police Officer etc......

We have since received our 120 day e-mail asking us to submit docs to London. Nowhere, is anything mentioned about completing & submitting any criminal rehab forms and submitting them with our full application. They have not requested anymore information. Criminality/cautions has not been mentioned.

We're therefore submitting our application and presuming/hoping that it won't be mentioned again! Any similar experiences - did anyone else get asked for further clarification after submitting 120 day documents?

Regards, katie
Sydney NS CIO Initial Assessment does mean nothing. They just look at your noc and take your fee. That's it.
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Old May 25th 2010, 8:56 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by cityhog
Sydney NS CIO Initial Assessment does mean nothing. They just look at your noc and take your fee. That's it.
Thanks for your replies

Knew it wouldn't be long before I was brought down to earth with a bump

Cheers, katie
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Old May 27th 2010, 3:14 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hey folks,

I hope some1 can shed some light on this for me

we are in the middle of doing our police check forms and I asked OH if anything he wants to tell me about any convictions cautions that has slipped his mind and I was joking but he told me about 15 years ago he was bound over for 6 months for breach of the peace as he had an offencesive sticker in his back window back in his boy racer days!
I have submitted our applications and ticked the box that says we have had no offences and he forgot to mention this then eee i could throttle him myself

he says hes had a few motor convictions aswell around the same time so will this show up on our police check?

thanks in advance.xx
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Old May 27th 2010, 4:24 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hi all

Honesty is the best policy .When you submit you forms to NS As per previous post all they check is NOC codes and job description.

Best bet is to apply for rehab and take it from there (we did and it took less then 4 weeks )

When your send yourforms on the 120 day email its the point of no return, and if they find out you will loose your fee and might not be able to reapply

Hope this helps and all the best
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