Sankra

some questions on debt in the US from my friend:

my friend worked in US with H1B visa for 6 years, he was laid off last
month so he couldn't pay off the debts he made in the states,

the debts include car load (about 15K US$), credit card outstanding
balance (about 7K total). it's the worst time in his life so he
decided to leave

the states without any notification. the questions are:

1> what will banks/creditors do in his case? (alien worker lose job in
the US and couldn't pay off and couldn't stick in the country for

long due to visa issue)

2> any impact on his future life/work in his home country (india) if
he just leaves the states without doing anything?

3> he got his canadian permanent residency years ago and he may move
to canada, what will happen if he go there with those debts unpaid?

4> what could be best solution to make up all these? (looks he
couldn't have any income to pay off at this time, and his H1B visa
doesn't allow him to stay long after he was laid off)

5> practially, what will banks do if he just go away given his total
debt was about 22K US$?


Thanks,

Sankra

Purley

My GUESS would be that the banks or loan companies would look for him for a while. If they cannot find him, then I would assume they would report the debt to the credit bureau and then not waste any more money looking for him if he has left the country.

I don't really know though. Its just a guess. I have no idea if the credit bureaus report to all of North America or if the US and Canada are totally separate.

nonong

Nothing would happen to him, as long as he does not go back to the U.S. What he did in the U.S. will have absolutely no effect on him when he is in India or in Canada. Canada does NOT share credit information with the U.S. as I had thought originally. It turns out that Canada does not give a damn about anyone's credit history in the U.S., and of course, neither will India.

The Wizzard

While it is correct that credit reporting is split into zones all that
means is that a Canadian credit issuer cannot write to a US credit
report and vice versa, you can't write to other zones. That doesn't mean
you can run up debt in one country and then move and simply forget about
it. Debts are considered assets nowadays and you can sell them. The US
credit card company or loan issuer etc can easily find out your current
country of residence and can then sell your debt to a Canadian company
who can then use local law to recover the debt. Whether they would go to
the trouble probably depends on the size of the debt but really it isn't
that much hassle as there are international debt collection agencies and
no doubt large banks and credit card companies would have no problem
simply submitting yoru details to one who would them locate you and sell
the debt for them. So don't be suprised if in a few years you get a
knock on the door from a local debt colleciton agency, and if the debt
is now in Canada then they can write to yoru credit report if you fail
to repay. If this wasn't the case banks etc would lose fortunes in
people skipping out on mortgages and large loans and debts.

nonong wrote:
    > Nothing would happen to him, as long as he does not go back to the U.S.
    > What he did in the U.S. will have absolutely no effect on him when he is
    > in India or in Canada. Canada does NOT share credit information with
    > the U.S. as I had thought originally. It turns out that Canada does not
    > give a damn about anyone's credit history in the U.S., and of course,
    > neither will India.
    >
    >
    >
    > Originally posted by lizwil98
    >
    >
    >>My GUESS would be that the banks or loan companies would look for him
    >>for a while. If they cannot find him, then I would assume they would
    >>report the debt to the credit bureau and then not waste any more money
    >>looking for him if he has left the country.
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't really know though. Its just a guess. I have no idea if the
    > credit bureaus report to all of North America or if the US and Canada
    > are totally separate.
    >
    >

Brett Weiss

[Foreign national incurred debt in US, and then lost job.]

    > 1> what will banks/creditors do in his case? (alien worker lose
job in
    > the US and couldn't pay off and couldn't stick in the country
for
    > long due to visa issue)

More and more, credit card companies are pursuing collections
internationally.

    > 2> any impact on his future life/work in his home country
(india) if
    > he just leaves the states without doing anything?

No idea.

    > 3> he got his canadian permanent residency years ago and he may
move
    > to canada, what will happen if he go there with those debts
unpaid?

They are likely to try to collect from him in Canada.

    > 4> what could be best solution to make up all these? (looks he
    > couldn't have any income to pay off at this time, and his H1B
visa
    > doesn't allow him to stay long after he was laid off)

Bankruptcy is an option. I've handled many such cases for people
outside the US.

    > 5> practially, what will banks do if he just go away given his
total
    > debt was about 22K US$?

They will try to find him, and get him to pay.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* [email protected] *
* http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the facts
and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

Tam

[email protected] (sankra) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..

    > my friend worked in US with H1B visa for 6 years, he was laid off last
    > month so he couldn't pay off the debts he made in the states,
    > the debts include car load (about 15K US$), credit card outstanding
    > balance (about 7K total). it's the worst time in his life so he
    > decided to leave the states without any notification. the questions are:
    >
    > 1> what will banks/creditors do in his case? (alien worker lose job in
    > the US and couldn't pay off and couldn't stick in the country for
    > long due to visa issue)

If creditors know of his connection with Canada and India, they may
try to locate him there, using normal skip tracing techniques. They
may try to sue him in the US, and whether they can get an enforceable
judgment depends on imponderables, including your friend's legal
domicile and other factors relating to jurisdiction. If they get a
judgment, even based on service (notice) abroad, that judgment should
be enforceable anywhere.

    > 2> any impact on his future life/work in his home country (india) if
    > he just leaves the states without doing anything?

Maybe. Citibank and other credit card issuers have active operations
there. On the other hand, they may never locate him since he won't be
using his US social security number.

    > 3> he got his canadian permanent residency years ago and he may move
    > to canada, what will happen if he go there with those debts unpaid?

They could sue in Canada on a US judgment, or sue in Canada on the
debt.

    > 4> what could be best solution to make up all these? (looks he
    > couldn't have any income to pay off at this time, and his H1B visa
    > doesn't allow him to stay long after he was laid off)

He could probably file a petition in bankruptcy in the US based on
domicile, past residence, assets, doing business. Oddly, situs of debt
is not a basis for bankruptcy jurisdiction in the US (it is in many
other countries).

    > 5> practially, what will banks do if he just go away given his total
    > debt was about 22K US$?

Eventually, if they can't collect on their own, they sell the debt for
pennies on the dollar, and specialist firms buy it and try to collect,
or else package and sell it on to another, perhaps more unscrupulous,
debt collection firm.

Bear in mind that Canadian bankruptcy law is less debtor-friendly than
US law. If your friend is in the Washington DC area he could do worse
than call on Brett Weiss.

If your friend did file bankruptcy eventually in Canada, a Canadian
discharge would probably not be recognized in the US, especially if
the US firm doesn't file proof of debt (claim) in the Canadian
proceeding. On the other hand, a US discharge of a US debt is
recognized everywhere.

Keith

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:23:11 -0500, [email protected] (sankra)
wrote:

    >some questions on debt in the US from my friend:
    >my friend worked in US with H1B visa for 6 years, he was laid off last
    >month so he couldn't pay off the debts he made in the states,
    >the debts include car load (about 15K US$),

Did he return the car to the loan company? If he did return it then
no sweat.

    > credit card outstanding
    >balance (about 7K total).

No big deal.

    > it's the worst time in his life so he
    >decided to leave


All he has to do is write his creditors and tell them he no longer
lives in the USA and will be unable to pay the bills. The big item is
the car loan and by returning the car that should help clear it up.

The credit card companies took a risk by issuing such a huge credit
line to a foreign national here on a temporary visa so they reaped
what they sowed. You may read some responses predicting gloom and doom
for your friend, but don't worry about it if he resides in a foreign
country.
If he gets any collection notices all he has to do his dispute the
collection by using the FCRA in writing and the collection goes back
to the original creditor, who must sue, very unlikely, or write the
debt off as a charge off.
Another thing to find out is where was the credit issued and the
Statue of Limitations. For example the SOL in California is four
years, but in Rhode Island it is 15 years. No matter what after seven
years the bad debt will be removed from his credit report. But do not
make any payments on the accounts, because if he does then the bad
debt(s) will stay on your credit record for another seven years.
If your friend is able to pay off the debts at some point in the
future he can negotiate in writing with the creditors that in exchange
for full payment on the bad debt they will remove the bad debt listing
on his credit report(s).
Bad debts is built into the unsecured credit system so if you play
the system right you won't have any problems with lawsuits.

--
Best Regards, Keith http://kilowatt-radio.org/ NW Oregon Radio Page
Hobby Radio Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobby_radio_users
AOL IM: kilowattradi0

Leon

    > > my friend worked in US with H1B visa for 6 years, he was laid off last
    > > month so he couldn't pay off the debts he made in the states,
    > > the debts include car load (about 15K US$), credit card outstanding
    > > balance (about 7K total). it's the worst time in his life so he
    > > decided to leave the states without any notification. the questions are:
    > >
    > > 1> what will banks/creditors do in his case? (alien worker lose job in
    > > the US and couldn't pay off and couldn't stick in the country for
    > > long due to visa issue)
    > If creditors know of his connection with Canada and India, they may
    > try to locate him there, using normal skip tracing techniques. They
    > may try to sue him in the US, and whether they can get an enforceable
    > judgment depends on imponderables, including your friend's legal
    > domicile and other factors relating to jurisdiction. If they get a
    > judgment, even based on service (notice) abroad, that judgment should
    > be enforceable anywhere.

All your assumptions are based on IF THEY KNOW YOU ARE IN CANADA. I know
many people on visitor visas here and get credit cards and run away and
never pay the bills. If your balance is $1M, then you may run into trouble
if you come back to the US again. Otherwise, just change your first name and
apply for another SSN before you borrow again. It is pretty difficult for
Americans to get a second SSN, but super easy for foreigners to get more
than 1 SSN. Let me tell you an even more shocking truth. You don't even need
a real SSN to apply for a credit, as long as the SSN is not used by anyone
yet, then there is no such SSN/Name pair in credit report history. There are
people who just type a random number to see if somebody's name will come up
with this SSN. If not, they will apply for credit cards on this fake SSN,
and keep it for several years to build a credit history then borrow big then
gone. It is just one of the stories that not told to the public yet.

Tam

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..

    > All your assumptions are based on IF THEY KNOW YOU ARE IN CANADA. I know
    > many people on visitor visas here and get credit cards and run away and
    > never pay the bills. If your balance is $1M, then you may run into trouble
    > if you come back to the US again. Otherwise, just change your first name and
    > apply for another SSN before you borrow again.

I do not provide assistance to persons who aim to commit fraud.

I don't think it's quite so easy as you say to get a credit card with
a made-up SSN, or without any credit history. Anyway, that was not the
query: it was the risk of suit if the debtor ran off without paying.
And timely setttling of the debt, or filing for bankruptcy in the US,
has clear advantages. In re Morgan, 1999 Man. D. J. 185, (1999) 88
A.C.W.S. (3d) 964, is a good example. An undischarged bankrupt who had
moved from Canada to the United States was pursued in 1997 by the
Internal Revenue Service for Canadian tax debts that Revenue Canada
(now Canada Customs and Revenue Agency) had claimed in a 1994
bankruptcy. The reciprocal collection arrangement thus operated as it
was intended to, forcing the debtor to return to the Canadian court
which, taking account of his increased earning capacity, fixed
Can.$100,000 (approximately half the tax debt exclusive of interest
and penalties) as the amount to be paid over 60 months as condition to
the grant of a discharge.

Had Morgan completed his bankruptcy before moving to the USA, he would
not have had to pay the additional Can.$100,000. Perhaps he thought
that the Canadian tax authorities would never find him.

Mr Lion

    > Can.$100,000 (approximately half the tax debt exclusive of interest
    > and penalties) as the amount to be paid over 60 months as condition to
    > the grant of a discharge.

I have a similar question as aasked by the 1st poster, but not as
serious.

In case the person has been laid off and has to leave US, how bad is
to break the apartment lease? In this case, the person has not taken
any loan and it is just a breaking of lease, for which a few months
are left. Is it considered equally bad as getting loan and running
away? Will the collection agencies still try to pursue him out of US?

Thanks a lot.
LD

Tam

On 15/12/03 5:52, in article [email protected], "Mr
Lion" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I have a similar question as aasked by the 1st poster, but not as
    > serious.
    >
    > In case the person has been laid off and has to leave US, how bad is
    > to break the apartment lease? In this case, the person has not taken
    > any loan and it is just a breaking of lease, for which a few months
    > are left. Is it considered equally bad as getting loan and running
    > away? Will the collection agencies still try to pursue him out of US?

What does your landlord say? Even if you have no right to sublet, the
landlord (in many or most jurisdictions) has an obligation to mitigate
damages. And if you are leaving the country and have no assets s/he has no
profit in harassing you -- and can't collect twice for the same period of
time, assuming there is no clause in the lease on acceleration etc.

If the landlord can get more money now, then s/he'd be crazy to play games
with you. S/he has your deposit.

Why are you worried anyway -- are you planning to return to the country
soon?

Webcrawler

"Mr Lion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > Can.$100,000 (approximately half the tax debt exclusive of interest
    > > and penalties) as the amount to be paid over 60 months as condition to
    > > the grant of a discharge.
    > I have a similar question as aasked by the 1st poster, but not as
    > serious.
    > In case the person has been laid off and has to leave US, how bad is
    > to break the apartment lease? In this case, the person has not taken
    > any loan and it is just a breaking of lease, for which a few months
    > are left. Is it considered equally bad as getting loan and running
    > away? Will the collection agencies still try to pursue him out of US?

If he pays the fine while breaking the lease, then no problem.
The landlords won't report him to any credit agency.

However, if he breaks the lease without paying the fine, then yes, the
landlord will report the amount of the fine as being unpaid and collectible.
Worse - if he simply vacates the apartment without formally notifying the
landlord that he is breaking the lease, it is even worse.
If he can't pay the fine, he should still notify the landlord both in person
as well as by certified letter.

As for the collection agencies, unless they know that he is in Canada, they
are not likely to come after him.
They can do him no damage once he has left the country - just bother with
phone calls, letters, etc.

Seth Breidbart

In article <[email protected]>,
WebCrawler <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Mr Lion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...

    >> In case the person has been laid off and has to leave US, how bad is
    >> to break the apartment lease? In this case, the person has not taken
    >> any loan and it is just a breaking of lease, for which a few months
    >> are left. Is it considered equally bad as getting loan and running
    >> away? Will the collection agencies still try to pursue him out of US?
    >If he pays the fine while breaking the lease, then no problem.
    >The landlords won't report him to any credit agency.

What "fine"? Some leases have provisions for early cancellation
(e.g. "60 days notice and pay an extra month of rent") others don't.
If you cancel the lease according to its terms you aren't breaking
anything.

    >They can do him no damage once he has left the country - just bother with
    >phone calls, letters, etc.

They can sue him, and win. The judgment may well be enforceable in
another country.

Seth

Webcrawler

Seth --

"Seth Breidbart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > WebCrawler <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >If he pays the fine while breaking the lease, then no problem.
    > >The landlords won't report him to any credit agency.
    > What "fine"? Some leases have provisions for early cancellation
    > (e.g. "60 days notice and pay an extra month of rent") others don't.
    > If you cancel the lease according to its terms you aren't breaking
    > anything.

When I said "fine" I meant the requirements that are enforced when
breaking/terminating a lease.
My rental agreement, for instance, clearly states that on "terminating" the
lease, I must do the following.
You can call it breaking, terminating, early cancellation - they are all the
same.
As long as you adhere to the terms agreed, the landlord won't report you.

    > >They can do him no damage once he has left the country - just bother with
    > >phone calls, letters, etc.
    > They can sue him, and win. The judgment may well be enforceable in
    > another country.
    > Seth

Depends on *what* country the person is going to.
It may be enforceable in Canada for example, but won't be enforceable in
most other countries.

ALESSANDRAB

Keith wrote:

The credit card companies took a risk by issuing such a huge credit line to a foreign national here on a temporary visa so they reaped what they sowed.
If he gets any collection notices all he has to do his dispute the
collection by using the FCRA in writing and the collection goes back to the original creditor, who must sue, very unlikely, or write the debt off as a charge off.
Another thing to find out is where was the credit issued and the
Statue of Limitations. For example the SOL in California is four
years, but in Rhode Island it is 15 years. No matter what after seven years the bad debt will be removed from his credit report. But do not make any payments on the accounts, because if he does then the bad debt(s) will stay on your credit record for another seven years.
If your friend is able to pay off the debts at some point in the
future he can negotiate in writing with the creditors that in exchange for full payment on the bad debt they will remove the bad debt listing on his credit report(s).

============================
Hi! thanks for the info. I have a few other questions:

1) Is it correct that if you get a credit report, it will state the statue of limitations on your debts?
2) you wrote: " If he gets any collection notices all he has to do his dispute the collection by using the FCRA in writing and the collection goes back to the original creditor, who must sue, very unlikely, or write the debt off as a charge off. "

I also lived in the US and went back to my own country and was unemployed and couldn´t pay my credit card bills.

What is the FCRA?

3) I wrote and spoke to the creditors and collectors that I was unemployed and therefore had no money or assets (which was true). I asked if they would offer me a settlement, which they said yes, but since I couldn´t find a job afterwards, I had no money to settle either.

Is the only way to find out how long my debts still have before running out with the statue of limitations through a credit report?
Should the correct date that the statue of limitations starts counting be the last time I made a payment or when I said to the creditor I would be interested in settling if I could find a job?

4) you wrote "write the debt off as a charge off. " - if the bank does that, then they will not try to collect anymore?

Thanks in advance for any additional info!