angelic_fruitcake

If my H gets our wish and his company relocate him to Calgary, what then?

I presume he will have to apply for a WP, or his employer on his behalf? He should qualify without HRDSC approval as he is (a) management (b) has specialist knowledge in his field.

So...however long that takes to process, let's just say he gets handed his WP and given a job start date in (for the sake of argument) October.

So then I qualify to come with him as his spouse...but can I apply for a WP before I go? Do I have to get a job offer FIRST and then get the WP from England? Or is it better to wait until I get to Calgary and then find a job when in situ, and apply for the WP?

Or can I apply for a WP when I get to Canada WITHOUT having a job, and scout round agencies waving my WP and saying 'gimme a job, please'

AND should we then apply for PR as soon as we land in Calgary? It'll give me something to do in between job applications, and visits to agencies, filling in all the immigration forms....

Any help muchly appreciated...

Andrew Miller

If your H qualifies for intra-company transferee work permit then there are few ways to do it. But unfortunately selecting wrong option and/or making mistake during work permit process may have negative impact on future PR application - thus as is any case involving WP and PR application all should be coordinated and timely executed.

Employer is not applying for WP, it is your H or his authorized immigration representative who does it.

Your open WP application as accompanying spouse of WP holder should be included with your H's WP application. You don't need job offer.

When to apply for PR - it all depends from circumstances and should be coordinated with WP case.

angelic_fruitcake

Thanks for that...so, when he gets his transfer agreed, HR will ask him to sort the forms out and I just apply for an open WP, that's the essence of it?

Great, can manage that.

What are the different issues/options with PR? We want to get it under way as soon as possible, obviously, are there any issues that would make that unwise?

Andrew Miller

Can't tell you without knowing details of your case. Positives and negatives are always case and circumstances specific. If it would be easy to list all do's and do not's then we wouldn't have 50% refusal rate.

angelic_fruitcake

OK.

My plan is that when we come over, H will work for his current company and I'll just take what I can get. I may even do some voluntary work to start with as we're intending to come over with about $40000 to $50000 as well as his job.

Points wise, he's got enough to get through on skilled worker anyway, and if I have a job offer so have I. Without a job offer I'd be borderline as I didn't do my A Levels at college - I left at 16 and studied part time at the same time as working. I got 2 A levels that way PLUS a cuple of vocational qualifications but it wasn't full time education.

We just didn't want to wait until I was 40 to get over there, so if we could get in through his job it would be ideal.

I have work experience in Law, Government, Communications and Journalism...I heard Alberta is always looking for government workers? Are there any restrictions on employment on non permanent residents in government jobs?

Sorry for all these questions...and thanks!

Andrew Miller

I'm sorry but what you just disclosed has no info about any factors that may affect PR application process in any way.

angelic_fruitcake

How come?

I've explained:

• We're planning to come on inter-company transfer (his)
• His job is exempt from a LMO because he's a manager and he's got specific specialist knowledge in his area of work (responsibility for a particular product range)
• I'm planning to apply for a WP as well.
  • I have specific work experience that I believe is on the PNP list in Alberta (government/journalism/communications)
• He has enough points to get through PR
• I may or may not, depending on how strict they are on education
• We have the finances to qualify for PR

Do none of these factors affect a PR application?

angelic_fruitcake

...and I guess my next question is, if these things don't affect an internal PR application, what do I need to be aware of, and what would?

Andrew Miller

What you stated are just your claims or best wishes, not yet conclusively documented facts. The devil is in evidence and unique circumstances, not in what you claim. It is all about particular circumstances, what you can claim, what you need to prove, how you can prove it, etc. - it is not about what you think or hope facts are.

For example you only stated that "his job is exempt from LMO", "he has enough points", etc. - I don't know if it is as you stated as I haven't seen any evidence yet. And CIC won't take your word for it either.

angelic_fruitcake

Well, put it like this, if he doesn't get the transfer - we won't be coming. So the other issues (my experience, his points, my education) are academic.

This is what we're relying on (as well as the company's record of facilitating transfers abroad for valued employees)

• Canada has provisions that allow for the transfer of an employee from the foreign to the Canadian branch of an international company. In order to qualify for the Intra-Company Transferee category, a business enterprise “is or will be doing business” in both Canada and the foreign country.

Doing business means regularly, systematically, and continuously providing goods and/or services by a parent, branch, subsidiary, or affiliate in Canada and the foreign country, as the case may be. It does not include the mere presence of an agent or office in Canada.

His company is part of a huge multinational corporation. He was working for a smaller European company but they were bought by the multinational 18 months ago. So...he has the benefit of being part of a larger organisation BUT highly specialised knowledge of the area of the market he works in. The company is established in Calgary.

SENIOR MANAGERS/EXECUTIVES

The holder must be transferring (see the 25% rule below) to a Senior Executive or Managerial level position at a permanent and continuing establishment of that company in Canada for a temporary period.

His current position is UK Product Manager - he has responsibility for pretty much everything to do with one range of products from project specs to presentations, sales and dealing with problems after installation. He's a senior staff member, and his sales targets are pretty high.

Typically, senior managers:
• supervise and control the work of:
• other managers and supervisors;
• professional employees, or
• manage an essential function within the
organization;

He doesn't have anyone reporting to him currently but he has managed 11 people in the past. He DOES manage an essential function.

SPECIALISED KNOWLEDGE

This means specialized knowledge an
individual has of a company’s product or service and its
application in international markets or an advanced level
of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s
processes and procedures. (Product, process and
service can include research, equipment, techniques,
management, or other interests).
The determination of whether a worker possesses
specialized knowledge does not involve a test of the
Canadian labour market, i.e., it is possible to have
similarly employed Canadian workers. However, officers
must ensure that the knowledge that the applicant
possesses is not general knowledge held commonly
throughout the industry; that it is truly specialized.

I'd say that it is. There was previously only one person covering the whole of North America for this product, and he's moved on. If the company agrees, and transfers him over as he is, he'll have unique knowledge of a product manufactured in the UK by a European company and recently acquired by a multi national.

Does any of this make it any clearer?

Andrew Miller

I know the rules and I assume that you know them too, or at least you know where to find them. And you quoted rules followed by your claims - if one would take your claims at their face value I would say chances are good for work permit. But again - these are only your claims, nothing more. I assume that you have evidence you are sure will prove your claims - I haven't seen the evidence, I don't know any details of case circumstances, thus we are still dealing only with your claims which may or may not be proven and accepted.

And I still haven't seem anything what would allow me to state anything about chances for PR and to determine what problems and pitfalls may be expected along the way.

I'm sorry, but I cannot say "go for it and don't worry" and/or "be careful and watch for this or that" - but I can say that your approach to the matter scares me a lot as you simply believe in your claims more than in what evidence processing officer will accept.

Of course your optimistic point of view is good as it gives you motivation and pushes you forward. But there is a huge difference between optimism and reality - and I can only deal with reality and evidence. I cannot assess chances for anything without making full evaluation of facts and available evidence.

angelic_fruitcake

I'm sorry, but I cannot say "go for it and don't worry" and/or "be careful and watch for this or that" - but I can say that your approach to the matter scares me a lot as you simply believe in your claims more than in what evidence processing officer will accept.

Why should my approach scare you? I don't have the evidence, simply because it's not MY job we're relying on. H has passed his CV to Canadian HR and that's as far as we've got.

We're not doing anything yet other than waiting to see if he gets approval for a transfer from HR. If he does, we'll apply for the work permits, which, based on the fact he'll (by then) have a job offer secured, I presume there's no problem with?

OK, so far, so good. At that point, we'll travel over to Calgary and I'll try and get a job. We will be renting at first, so no commitment past the term of the lease which I hope will be no longer than the term of the work permit. The, we take it from there as far as PR is concerned.

If we get refused PR and have to come back after a couple of years, yes, I'll be devastated. But rather than than sit at home for four years and THEN get refused.

And we'd get 1-2 years of living over there out of it, at least. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, surely? I *am* a positive thinker, and I have every reason to believe that we can do this, and we will. If we don't get PR and have to come back to England well, what have we actually LOST? Except the ait fare?

angelic_fruitcake

Andrew, sorry, don't mean to sound rude. I wasn't expecting an appraisal of our chances of getting PR based on the evidence I gave you, I just didn't know the timings for applying for PR, or how to co-ordinate WPs, which you answered.

I realise you can't give a considered opinion based on the facts I've given.

You said that it all has to be co-ordinated and that there are factors I have to consider which affect when we should apply for PR, and I wanted to know what the factors were...

You seem to think we are just expecting Canada to fall over themselves to let us in - in fact it's to the contrary and I'm scared to death that our dream will turn to dust BUT I will not let myself be negative, that's all.

Andrew Miller

You are not rude at all, you are only confused because you are only touching the surface of the process and as you admitted you don't have any evidence yet. And no, I don't think that you expect Canada "to fall over...". You are asking questions hoping to get answers, you are an optimist but at times ("If we get refused PR ...") you turn into a pesimist, instead of following your optimism, sitting down (or asking professional for help) to fully evaluate your chances and available options and to draw the plan for what needs to be done and what evidence is necessary to make it work. It would be the logical and prudent course of action. Have your plan's chances and options assessed first, before you start doing anything else and coming to Calgary. Then, if your chances are at least OK then decide if you want to take risk and gamble with DIY route or if you want professional assistance.

Once your chances are assessed as doable, OK, good or very good then the only things that will matter is to make sure that plan is properly executed and both, work permit and subsequent PR application, are submitted perfectly prepared "on a silver plate" with evidence conclusive enough to eliminate any doubts in processing officer's mind and fully addressing upfront all possible case and circumstances specific questions officer may have. At least this is my approach and this is how I prepare applications for all my clients. When all is done this way then there is never a doubt about approval - the only question is what else we can do to make it all happen faster, it will never be a question "can we get it" - the only question remaining will be when we'll get it.

angelic_fruitcake

OK, fair enough and thanks. Until we've got H a job offer it's a no-go anyway...I guess I'm just throwing ideas around to get a better sense of 'what happens next'

When we're a bit further forward is probably the time to ask more involved questions?

But I'm still hoping...