Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Aug 4th 2008, 9:51 pm
#1
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Hello All,
I do not trust my immigration agent at all....
Has anybody ever launched an application after having hired a law firm/agent and then decided NOT to include them as your representative when you send the application form to the Canadian Embassy?
Are there any consequences to this?
Do you HAVE to mention them?
I read this in the CIC website:
"...If you hire an immigration representative
You must provide your representative's name and contact information on your application form regardless of whether your representative is paid or not.
If your representative says that this is not necessary, this is false, and you should verify the quality of your representative's advice...."
I assume they mean that this if you want them to mediate on your behalf...(which I don´t anymore)...or how should I see this?
I do not trust my immigration agent at all....
Has anybody ever launched an application after having hired a law firm/agent and then decided NOT to include them as your representative when you send the application form to the Canadian Embassy?
Are there any consequences to this?
Do you HAVE to mention them?
I read this in the CIC website:
"...If you hire an immigration representative
You must provide your representative's name and contact information on your application form regardless of whether your representative is paid or not.
If your representative says that this is not necessary, this is false, and you should verify the quality of your representative's advice...."
I assume they mean that this if you want them to mediate on your behalf...(which I don´t anymore)...or how should I see this?
Aug 4th 2008, 9:57 pm
#2
Citizenship Nov 10 2016!!
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Stewiacke Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,659
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Hi
I think you can complete a form to send to CIC/CHC to advise them that you no longer wish the representative to have authority/access to your case.
Are you looking to cancel your agreement with your representative?
I think you can complete a form to send to CIC/CHC to advise them that you no longer wish the representative to have authority/access to your case.
Are you looking to cancel your agreement with your representative?
Aug 4th 2008, 10:05 pm
#3
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
There is no use in cancelling the contract I guess, I just don't want to make the link between them and me (or put them in any position where they can negotiate on my behalf...) given that I do NOT trust these people for an inch...
About sending the form you mention, that is correct, but that is AFTER you have sent a form saying that they DO represent you, which is not my case...I haven't sent any papers yet...
So what do you think?
About sending the form you mention, that is correct, but that is AFTER you have sent a form saying that they DO represent you, which is not my case...I haven't sent any papers yet...
So what do you think?
Aug 4th 2008, 10:17 pm
#4
Citizenship Nov 10 2016!!
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Stewiacke Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,659
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
sorry not sure, I see where you are coming from, however if you really don't want them to have any involvement I would look to cancel all ties with them, just my view fwiw.
As far as whether you have to tell CIC that you are retaining the services of an agent, hopefully one of the experts can advise on this shortly.
Good luck
As far as whether you have to tell CIC that you are retaining the services of an agent, hopefully one of the experts can advise on this shortly.
Good luck
Aug 4th 2008, 10:33 pm
#5
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
I actually found this on the CIC website just now:
"...What are the consequences if I choose not to inform Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) that I paid a representative after April 13, 2004?
It is a serious offence to give false or misleading information to the Government of Canada. If you choose not to disclose the name of your representative to CIC or the Canada Border Services Agency, your application may be refused for misrepresentation and you may be inadmissible for a period of two years or subject to enforcement action.
The individual charging a fee for the services may also be penalized according to the Criminal Code of Canada, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and/or provincial jurisdiction...."
So it sounds like you HAVE to or am I reading this wrong?
"...What are the consequences if I choose not to inform Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) that I paid a representative after April 13, 2004?
It is a serious offence to give false or misleading information to the Government of Canada. If you choose not to disclose the name of your representative to CIC or the Canada Border Services Agency, your application may be refused for misrepresentation and you may be inadmissible for a period of two years or subject to enforcement action.
The individual charging a fee for the services may also be penalized according to the Criminal Code of Canada, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and/or provincial jurisdiction...."
So it sounds like you HAVE to or am I reading this wrong?
Aug 5th 2008, 1:20 am
#6
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8,984
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Chapter IP9 of Immigration Manual here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...s/ip/ip09e.pdf
provides the following interpretation in section 2:
It is important to understand that CIC, the IRB and the CBSA are interpreting the Regulations to mean that R13.1(1) does not apply to any representations that are made to a client before an application is submitted to CIC. In other words, an applicant is obliged to disclose the name of their representative (authorized or unpaid) on the Use of a Representative (IMM 5476) form only if the individual will represent them once the application is submitted to CIC (i.e., either at the time of submission or post-submission).
As you can see as long as you are the one submitting the application and your agent or ex-agent has nothing to do with submission and is not provide any post-submission representation then you are fine.
But make sure that you cancel the appointment of representative - if you don't then your agent still has the right to send Use of Representative form you already signed to appoint him or her. By sending Use of Representative form to visa post your agent will take over your case and control communication with visa post. And of course will cause you big troubles if Use of Representative form you signed is dated prior to the date you mail your application - in such case you will be accused of not disclosing a representative. Do yourself a favor and send the cancellation of appointment of representative with your application - the same Use of Representative form, just this time instead of "I am appointing a representative" you tick "I am cancelling the appointment of representative".
It is irrelevant that visa post didn't receive appointment of representative - as long as they have cancellation form signed then any appointment of representative form received later but dated prior to the date on signed cancellation they will simply end up in trash.
And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...s/ip/ip09e.pdf
provides the following interpretation in section 2:
It is important to understand that CIC, the IRB and the CBSA are interpreting the Regulations to mean that R13.1(1) does not apply to any representations that are made to a client before an application is submitted to CIC. In other words, an applicant is obliged to disclose the name of their representative (authorized or unpaid) on the Use of a Representative (IMM 5476) form only if the individual will represent them once the application is submitted to CIC (i.e., either at the time of submission or post-submission).
As you can see as long as you are the one submitting the application and your agent or ex-agent has nothing to do with submission and is not provide any post-submission representation then you are fine.
But make sure that you cancel the appointment of representative - if you don't then your agent still has the right to send Use of Representative form you already signed to appoint him or her. By sending Use of Representative form to visa post your agent will take over your case and control communication with visa post. And of course will cause you big troubles if Use of Representative form you signed is dated prior to the date you mail your application - in such case you will be accused of not disclosing a representative. Do yourself a favor and send the cancellation of appointment of representative with your application - the same Use of Representative form, just this time instead of "I am appointing a representative" you tick "I am cancelling the appointment of representative".
It is irrelevant that visa post didn't receive appointment of representative - as long as they have cancellation form signed then any appointment of representative form received later but dated prior to the date on signed cancellation they will simply end up in trash.
And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays.
Last edited by Andrew Miller; Aug 5th 2008 at 1:31 am.
Aug 6th 2008, 12:01 am
#7
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Dear Andrew Miller, thanks a lot for your spot on response!
OK, so just to make it clear for me...
1) When I send my Application to the Canadian Embassy (which would be the first contact I have with them) I ALSO inlcude a Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative...(even if I have never sent one before.)
2) The idea that I send this is to prevent my agent from causing trouble in the future.
3) So then the Application and Use of Representative Form would be received by the Embassy/CIC and the process would begin between Embassy/CIC and myself, and from that moment on, anything my agent would want to do to harm me, or just hinder the process, would simply fall on deaf ears because they would not be accredited to act on my behalf.
Is this correct?
On the last line you wrote:
"...And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays...."
With this you mean that the Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative that I am sending with my application to the Canadian Embassy, should be fotocopied, and sent by registered mail to my "ex" agent?
OK, but how would this stop them from hindering the process? I thought that that was the point behind sending the cancellation of the use of representative form to the Embassy/CIC...and then they would be completely out of the loop. But this sounds like they would still be in part of it or they would have the option to hinder the process even though I have sent the cancellation...
So, how does this one work? How can I make sure my agent has no option to hinder my process?
OK, so just to make it clear for me...
1) When I send my Application to the Canadian Embassy (which would be the first contact I have with them) I ALSO inlcude a Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative...(even if I have never sent one before.)
2) The idea that I send this is to prevent my agent from causing trouble in the future.
3) So then the Application and Use of Representative Form would be received by the Embassy/CIC and the process would begin between Embassy/CIC and myself, and from that moment on, anything my agent would want to do to harm me, or just hinder the process, would simply fall on deaf ears because they would not be accredited to act on my behalf.
Is this correct?
On the last line you wrote:
"...And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays...."
With this you mean that the Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative that I am sending with my application to the Canadian Embassy, should be fotocopied, and sent by registered mail to my "ex" agent?
OK, but how would this stop them from hindering the process? I thought that that was the point behind sending the cancellation of the use of representative form to the Embassy/CIC...and then they would be completely out of the loop. But this sounds like they would still be in part of it or they would have the option to hinder the process even though I have sent the cancellation...
So, how does this one work? How can I make sure my agent has no option to hinder my process?
Aug 6th 2008, 5:21 am
#8
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,483
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
You know, it really sounds as though you are regretting your decision to pay someone to help you and are seeking to sidle out of your contract.
You will receive all future correspondence from the visa office if you do as you plan but you will absolve this consultant of any responsibility too. Your choice but if you have a contract you should read it too.
You will receive all future correspondence from the visa office if you do as you plan but you will absolve this consultant of any responsibility too. Your choice but if you have a contract you should read it too.
Aug 7th 2008, 3:38 am
#9
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
You know, it really sounds as though you are regretting your decision to pay someone to help you and are seeking to sidle out of your contract.
You will receive all future correspondence from the visa office if you do as you plan but you will absolve this consultant of any responsibility too. Your choice but if you have a contract you should read it too.
You will receive all future correspondence from the visa office if you do as you plan but you will absolve this consultant of any responsibility too. Your choice but if you have a contract you should read it too.
This is completely irrelevant to me, and if it was I would put it in another thread. I hope you can read in this thread that what I need to understand is way more important than any issues with the agent itself...
So...just not to loose track of where we were, I'll copy the questions again in another reply...
Aug 7th 2008, 3:38 am
#10
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Dear Andrew Miller, thanks a lot for your spot on response!
OK, so just to make it clear for me...
1) When I send my Application to the Canadian Embassy (which would be the first contact I have with them) I ALSO inlcude a Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative...(even if I have never sent one before.)
2) The idea that I send this is to prevent my agent from causing trouble in the future.
3) So then the Application and Use of Representative Form would be received by the Embassy/CIC and the process would begin between Embassy/CIC and myself, and from that moment on, anything my agent would want to do to harm me, or just hinder the process, would simply fall on deaf ears because they would not be accredited to act on my behalf.
Is this correct?
On the last line you wrote:
"...And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays...."
With this you mean that the Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative that I am sending with my application to the Canadian Embassy, should be fotocopied, and sent by registered mail to my "ex" agent?
OK, but how would this stop them from hindering the process? I thought that that was the point behind sending the cancellation of the use of representative form to the Embassy/CIC...and then they would be completely out of the loop. But this sounds like they would still be in part of it or they would have the option to hinder the process even though I have sent the cancellation...
So, how does this one work? How can I make sure my agent has no option to hinder my process?
OK, so just to make it clear for me...
1) When I send my Application to the Canadian Embassy (which would be the first contact I have with them) I ALSO inlcude a Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative...(even if I have never sent one before.)
2) The idea that I send this is to prevent my agent from causing trouble in the future.
3) So then the Application and Use of Representative Form would be received by the Embassy/CIC and the process would begin between Embassy/CIC and myself, and from that moment on, anything my agent would want to do to harm me, or just hinder the process, would simply fall on deaf ears because they would not be accredited to act on my behalf.
Is this correct?
On the last line you wrote:
"...And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays...."
With this you mean that the Use of Representative Form cancelling the appointment of my representative that I am sending with my application to the Canadian Embassy, should be fotocopied, and sent by registered mail to my "ex" agent?
OK, but how would this stop them from hindering the process? I thought that that was the point behind sending the cancellation of the use of representative form to the Embassy/CIC...and then they would be completely out of the loop. But this sounds like they would still be in part of it or they would have the option to hinder the process even though I have sent the cancellation...
So, how does this one work? How can I make sure my agent has no option to hinder my process?
Aug 7th 2008, 4:15 am
#11
NEMESIS
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto (from Manchester)
Posts: 1,651
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Hello All,
I do not trust my immigration agent at all....
Has anybody ever launched an application after having hired a law firm/agent and then decided NOT to include them as your representative when you send the application form to the Canadian Embassy?
Are there any consequences to this?
Do you HAVE to mention them?
I read this in the CIC website:
"...If you hire an immigration representative
You must provide your representative's name and contact information on your application form regardless of whether your representative is paid or not.
If your representative says that this is not necessary, this is false, and you should verify the quality of your representative's advice...."
I assume they mean that this if you want them to mediate on your behalf...(which I don´t anymore)...or how should I see this?
I do not trust my immigration agent at all....
Has anybody ever launched an application after having hired a law firm/agent and then decided NOT to include them as your representative when you send the application form to the Canadian Embassy?
Are there any consequences to this?
Do you HAVE to mention them?
I read this in the CIC website:
"...If you hire an immigration representative
You must provide your representative's name and contact information on your application form regardless of whether your representative is paid or not.
If your representative says that this is not necessary, this is false, and you should verify the quality of your representative's advice...."
I assume they mean that this if you want them to mediate on your behalf...(which I don´t anymore)...or how should I see this?
Aug 11th 2008, 12:57 am
#12
Just Joined
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Yes, it has been really sad....using an agent was such a bad idea.....
I hope somebody in this forum can help me a bit with the questions marks I still have hanging....
Thanks!
I hope somebody in this forum can help me a bit with the questions marks I still have hanging....
Thanks!
Aug 11th 2008, 1:33 am
#13
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8,984
Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Your problem is that you don't tell the whole story here - without entire story and facts it is impossible to suggest anything beyond what has already been suggested. Everything beyond that would be a speculation based on presumptions - and if presumptions are wrong you would be getting bad advice. Then you'll be blaming those who gave you the advice.
Aug 17th 2008, 11:19 pm
#14
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Re: Sending application, but not including the "Use of representative form"
Andrew, I think that you have not read the thread carefully.
The story (once more) is that I paid for advice, they tried to rip me off, and now I want to continue without them.
After I posted this thread, you responded to my question (to which I very much thank you) and you included at the end:
"And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays."
Of course this got me thinking that they COULD do something in order to get back at me. Period, that's the story.
Is this clear enough for you......? Why would I come to a forum looking for somebody to blame?!?! Huh?!?!
If you say that they could still cause trouble for me, don't you think it is pretty natural that I would ask in my next reply how can I prevent this? Is that so complex to understand?
So based on what you (Andrew Miller) have written in this thread I have replied with the following:
1) Considering my situation, should I simply send the application without the "Use of Representative Form"?
2) When you say that they could still cause a problem for me, of course I want to prevent that!! But I thought, that the way to do it, was to simply not include them in the process when I send the applications for the first time. This is the point where YOU said that they still could mess things up, and then you suggested sending them (the ex immigration agents) a letter letting them know that they were out of the loop...WHAAT?!?! If I would need to send a letter to them, it almost sounds like I'm asking them to please stay out of it; which would imply that they can still mess things up if they would want to. Now that I am asking you exactly HOW they can mess things up, you deviate completely from the issue....? What's up with that?
Anyways..... So once again, this is the question:
Considering my situation, how can I start my application process with the Canadian Embassy without including the immigration agent (that I have already paid and has helped me but later tried to rip me off by charging me twice the agreed amount) in such a way that I can rest assured that I am doing it in the correct and legal manner, AND to do it in such a way that I am not vulnerable to an angry immigration agent that could perhaps use this situation to his advantage and ask for more money.
Period.
The story (once more) is that I paid for advice, they tried to rip me off, and now I want to continue without them.
After I posted this thread, you responded to my question (to which I very much thank you) and you included at the end:
"And of course send the copy of cancellation of appointment to your agent by registered mail - if you won't do it she or he may still cause a lot of problems and delays."
Of course this got me thinking that they COULD do something in order to get back at me. Period, that's the story.
Is this clear enough for you......? Why would I come to a forum looking for somebody to blame?!?! Huh?!?!
If you say that they could still cause trouble for me, don't you think it is pretty natural that I would ask in my next reply how can I prevent this? Is that so complex to understand?
So based on what you (Andrew Miller) have written in this thread I have replied with the following:
1) Considering my situation, should I simply send the application without the "Use of Representative Form"?
2) When you say that they could still cause a problem for me, of course I want to prevent that!! But I thought, that the way to do it, was to simply not include them in the process when I send the applications for the first time. This is the point where YOU said that they still could mess things up, and then you suggested sending them (the ex immigration agents) a letter letting them know that they were out of the loop...WHAAT?!?! If I would need to send a letter to them, it almost sounds like I'm asking them to please stay out of it; which would imply that they can still mess things up if they would want to. Now that I am asking you exactly HOW they can mess things up, you deviate completely from the issue....? What's up with that?
Anyways..... So once again, this is the question:
Considering my situation, how can I start my application process with the Canadian Embassy without including the immigration agent (that I have already paid and has helped me but later tried to rip me off by charging me twice the agreed amount) in such a way that I can rest assured that I am doing it in the correct and legal manner, AND to do it in such a way that I am not vulnerable to an angry immigration agent that could perhaps use this situation to his advantage and ask for more money.
Period.
