in reply to wizzard, kks & generally....
Aug 12th 2002, 3:47 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26
in reply to wizzard, kks & generally....
well, hey! i agree with you guys also, when you say that this is only a small part of the total number of arrivals into canada, and that we shouldn't really be tarring everyone with the same brush, as they say!
sure, the majority of arrivals eventually do settle down after a while and make very decent lives there, but that's the nature of these NBs, isn't it--you always get to hear of all the failures, hardly ever do you hear from people who have made it !! that's life !!
what we are saying is that you shouldn't bank on getting into your field of work straight away in canada, as you may do in, eg the uk, as canada, as far as i have experienced, is a fairly "new" economy and so will in essence offer fewer opportunities than an established place like britain. but that does not mean that you should take up burger-flipping or pizza-delivering and then moan constantly that you could never get into your choice of career! rather, if you were a software guy for example, it would be better to do some sort of admin/clerical work initially and at the same time, keep chasing for your own chosen job meantime; that way you get to eat n live. too! as an example, i know of people who are qualified to msc level (and these are guys who speak perfect english and their degrees are "kosher", not bought on the "open" market!) who could not get the right jobs, so worked for a few months in places like superstores etc and then, sure enough, a few months later, got into their chosen fields.
basically, if you can't get something within your interests at all, only then you can think about going back where you originally came from and start again.
cheers
sure, the majority of arrivals eventually do settle down after a while and make very decent lives there, but that's the nature of these NBs, isn't it--you always get to hear of all the failures, hardly ever do you hear from people who have made it !! that's life !!
what we are saying is that you shouldn't bank on getting into your field of work straight away in canada, as you may do in, eg the uk, as canada, as far as i have experienced, is a fairly "new" economy and so will in essence offer fewer opportunities than an established place like britain. but that does not mean that you should take up burger-flipping or pizza-delivering and then moan constantly that you could never get into your choice of career! rather, if you were a software guy for example, it would be better to do some sort of admin/clerical work initially and at the same time, keep chasing for your own chosen job meantime; that way you get to eat n live. too! as an example, i know of people who are qualified to msc level (and these are guys who speak perfect english and their degrees are "kosher", not bought on the "open" market!) who could not get the right jobs, so worked for a few months in places like superstores etc and then, sure enough, a few months later, got into their chosen fields.
basically, if you can't get something within your interests at all, only then you can think about going back where you originally came from and start again.
cheers
Aug 12th 2002, 11:18 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: in reply to wizzard, kks & generally....
> what we are saying is that you shouldn't bank on getting into your field of work
> straight away in canada, as you may do in, eg the uk, as canada, as far as i have
> experienced, is a fairly "new" economy and so will in essence offer fewer
> opportunities than an established place like britain. but that does not mean that
> you should take up burger-flipping or pizza-delivering and then moan constantly
> that you could never get into your choice of career! rather, if you were a software
> guy for example, it would be better to do some sort of admin/clerical work
> initially and at the same time, keep chasing for your own chosen job meantime; that
> way you get to eat n live. too! as an example, i know of people who are qualified
> to msc level (and these are guys who speak perfect english and their degrees are
> "kosher", not bought on the "open" market!) who could not get the right jobs, so
> worked for a few months in places like superstores etc and then, sure enough, a few
> months later, got into their chosen fields.
You don't get it do you... Most IT guys are spending a larger percentage of time
trying to get odd jobs. These are hard to come by..... have u seen the queues for
factory jobs...??? Getting a clerical job is now considered a dream rather than
working as a forklift operator, factory worker etc...
> basically, if you can't get something within your interests at all, only then
> you can think about going back where you originally came from and start again.
> cheers
At this point in time, I think what u need is a vacation not migration. Take a month
long vacation in Canada and Aus.... do this for the next 3 years until the economy
improves.....
Migration to Canada is bound to be open for the next 10 years at the least....
> straight away in canada, as you may do in, eg the uk, as canada, as far as i have
> experienced, is a fairly "new" economy and so will in essence offer fewer
> opportunities than an established place like britain. but that does not mean that
> you should take up burger-flipping or pizza-delivering and then moan constantly
> that you could never get into your choice of career! rather, if you were a software
> guy for example, it would be better to do some sort of admin/clerical work
> initially and at the same time, keep chasing for your own chosen job meantime; that
> way you get to eat n live. too! as an example, i know of people who are qualified
> to msc level (and these are guys who speak perfect english and their degrees are
> "kosher", not bought on the "open" market!) who could not get the right jobs, so
> worked for a few months in places like superstores etc and then, sure enough, a few
> months later, got into their chosen fields.
You don't get it do you... Most IT guys are spending a larger percentage of time
trying to get odd jobs. These are hard to come by..... have u seen the queues for
factory jobs...??? Getting a clerical job is now considered a dream rather than
working as a forklift operator, factory worker etc...
> basically, if you can't get something within your interests at all, only then
> you can think about going back where you originally came from and start again.
> cheers
At this point in time, I think what u need is a vacation not migration. Take a month
long vacation in Canada and Aus.... do this for the next 3 years until the economy
improves.....
Migration to Canada is bound to be open for the next 10 years at the least....
Aug 13th 2002, 12:27 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: in reply to wizzard, kks & generally....
[email protected] (Jason Brown) wrote:
> You don't get it do you... Most IT guys are spending a larger percentage of time
> trying to get odd jobs. These are hard to come by..... have u seen the queues for
> factory jobs...??? Getting a clerical job is now considered a dream rather than
> working as a forklift operator, factory worker etc...
Canada has *always* been like this. My uncle who moved to Ontario fifty years ago
told me the same thing. Canada is a boom-and-bust economy. It's not quite the seven
years of feast and seven years of famine, but it could be ten years of feast and
three years of famine. IT didn't just boom, it BOOOOOOMED and thus there will be a
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST. It doesn't help that almost everyone who comes is an IT guy,
either, but I also don't believe that it will be always, for ever impossible to get a
job there. It'll probably be tough for the next couple years.
That's why it's REAL IMPORTANT to bring enough money so you can subsist till getting
citizenship.
I'm so sure I'm right about this that I'm going to come back over there in three or
so years. I really don't believe that after the excess has worked itself out (it's
called "overshoot", you get it on the way up AND on the way down, although maybe the
downside would be more aptly named "hangover") it will be as hard to find jobs as it
is now. Things are cyclical.
How bad can it get? I don't know but the following might be worth bearing in mind
even though it's not based upon anything but supposition. We could get possibly a
1930's style depression, but bear in mind that even the depression eventually ended
in about 1936-1937 so that's five-six years in the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. The IT
recession started in 2000-2001 so we've ran either two or three years. If it's a
1930's style jobs depression then we should be looking at complete recovery by
2005-2006. That's not too far away.
If it's not as bad as the 1930's it might only take three to four years to clear up.
That means we're looking at complete recovery by 2003-2004.
If it's WORSE than 1930's then what are we talking about? COMPLETE COLLAPSE of the
industry. Does anyone believe that we won't need computers in the future? I
thought not.
> You don't get it do you... Most IT guys are spending a larger percentage of time
> trying to get odd jobs. These are hard to come by..... have u seen the queues for
> factory jobs...??? Getting a clerical job is now considered a dream rather than
> working as a forklift operator, factory worker etc...
Canada has *always* been like this. My uncle who moved to Ontario fifty years ago
told me the same thing. Canada is a boom-and-bust economy. It's not quite the seven
years of feast and seven years of famine, but it could be ten years of feast and
three years of famine. IT didn't just boom, it BOOOOOOMED and thus there will be a
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST. It doesn't help that almost everyone who comes is an IT guy,
either, but I also don't believe that it will be always, for ever impossible to get a
job there. It'll probably be tough for the next couple years.
That's why it's REAL IMPORTANT to bring enough money so you can subsist till getting
citizenship.
I'm so sure I'm right about this that I'm going to come back over there in three or
so years. I really don't believe that after the excess has worked itself out (it's
called "overshoot", you get it on the way up AND on the way down, although maybe the
downside would be more aptly named "hangover") it will be as hard to find jobs as it
is now. Things are cyclical.
How bad can it get? I don't know but the following might be worth bearing in mind
even though it's not based upon anything but supposition. We could get possibly a
1930's style depression, but bear in mind that even the depression eventually ended
in about 1936-1937 so that's five-six years in the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. The IT
recession started in 2000-2001 so we've ran either two or three years. If it's a
1930's style jobs depression then we should be looking at complete recovery by
2005-2006. That's not too far away.
If it's not as bad as the 1930's it might only take three to four years to clear up.
That means we're looking at complete recovery by 2003-2004.
If it's WORSE than 1930's then what are we talking about? COMPLETE COLLAPSE of the
industry. Does anyone believe that we won't need computers in the future? I
thought not.
Aug 13th 2002, 4:12 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26
to bodza
i am sure bodza is right--these things operate on a cyclical basis; if there is a minor recession, then there surely will be a positive correction soon.
i dont know what jasonbrown is on about; of course i know what you are talking about. as regards people in IT; if they were ignorant enough to rush into the field headfirst, even though the writing was on the wall, that IT would be saturated soon, well then thats their own fault. just because every tom, dick and harry is gettig into IT, doesn't mean that you should do the same too.
at the moment. IT is saturated, to the point that in the uk, a system administrator for example, will only get offered around £17 or £18 000 pa, which may sound like a lot to you canadians, but its peanuts over here!! i say again, open your eyes and you'll see--people are leaving IT now in droves, and taking up other things.
so as far as ITers are concerned, you'll have to suffer the consequences for the time being, like maybe flipping hamburgers for mcdonalds or something !!
Canada has *always* been like this. My uncle who moved to Ontario fifty years ago
told me the same thing. Canada is a boom-and-bust economy. It's not quite the seven
years of feast and seven years of famine, but it could be ten years of feast and
three years of famine. IT didn't just boom, it BOOOOOOMED and thus there will be a
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST. It doesn't help that almost everyone who comes is an IT guy,
either, but I also don't believe that it will be always, for ever impossible to get a
job there. It'll probably be tough for the next couple years.
That's why it's REAL IMPORTANT to bring enough money so you can subsist till getting
citizenship.
I'm so sure I'm right about this that I'm going to come back over there in three or
so years. I really don't believe that after the excess has worked itself out (it's
called "overshoot", you get it on the way up AND on the way down, although maybe the
downside would be more aptly named "hangover") it will be as hard to find jobs as it
is now. Things are cyclical.
How bad can it get? I don't know but the following might be worth bearing in mind
even though it's not based upon anything but supposition. We could get possibly a
1930's style depression, but bear in mind that even the depression eventually ended
in about 1936-1937 so that's five-six years in the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. The IT
recession started in 2000-2001 so we've ran either two or three years. If it's a
1930's style jobs depression then we should be looking at complete recovery by
2005-2006. That's not too far away.
If it's not as bad as the 1930's it might only take three to four years to clear up.
That means we're looking at complete recovery by 2003-2004.
If it's WORSE than 1930's then what are we talking about? COMPLETE COLLAPSE of the
industry. Does anyone believe that we won't need computers in the future? I
thought not.
[/QUOTE]
i dont know what jasonbrown is on about; of course i know what you are talking about. as regards people in IT; if they were ignorant enough to rush into the field headfirst, even though the writing was on the wall, that IT would be saturated soon, well then thats their own fault. just because every tom, dick and harry is gettig into IT, doesn't mean that you should do the same too.
at the moment. IT is saturated, to the point that in the uk, a system administrator for example, will only get offered around £17 or £18 000 pa, which may sound like a lot to you canadians, but its peanuts over here!! i say again, open your eyes and you'll see--people are leaving IT now in droves, and taking up other things.
so as far as ITers are concerned, you'll have to suffer the consequences for the time being, like maybe flipping hamburgers for mcdonalds or something !!
Canada has *always* been like this. My uncle who moved to Ontario fifty years ago
told me the same thing. Canada is a boom-and-bust economy. It's not quite the seven
years of feast and seven years of famine, but it could be ten years of feast and
three years of famine. IT didn't just boom, it BOOOOOOMED and thus there will be a
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST. It doesn't help that almost everyone who comes is an IT guy,
either, but I also don't believe that it will be always, for ever impossible to get a
job there. It'll probably be tough for the next couple years.
That's why it's REAL IMPORTANT to bring enough money so you can subsist till getting
citizenship.
I'm so sure I'm right about this that I'm going to come back over there in three or
so years. I really don't believe that after the excess has worked itself out (it's
called "overshoot", you get it on the way up AND on the way down, although maybe the
downside would be more aptly named "hangover") it will be as hard to find jobs as it
is now. Things are cyclical.
How bad can it get? I don't know but the following might be worth bearing in mind
even though it's not based upon anything but supposition. We could get possibly a
1930's style depression, but bear in mind that even the depression eventually ended
in about 1936-1937 so that's five-six years in the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. The IT
recession started in 2000-2001 so we've ran either two or three years. If it's a
1930's style jobs depression then we should be looking at complete recovery by
2005-2006. That's not too far away.
If it's not as bad as the 1930's it might only take three to four years to clear up.
That means we're looking at complete recovery by 2003-2004.
If it's WORSE than 1930's then what are we talking about? COMPLETE COLLAPSE of the
industry. Does anyone believe that we won't need computers in the future? I
thought not.
[/QUOTE]
