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Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Old Aug 18th 2009, 5:41 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

To the OP: andrewrb143 has found your grounds for appeal.

Your lawyer would need to show that the value of what you damaged was under CAD5000 and therefore the Canadian equivalent offence of which you were convicted of does not have a maximum sentence of 10 years in Canada. Therefore you would *not* be inadmissable under section 36(1)(b).

Get thee to a lawyer!
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 5:45 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by graham and george
Hi All,

Getting a little worried as I was in a similar situation back in November 2000 - I damaged a window while drunk and very stupid!! I was fined approx £120 and attended a magistrate's court.

I have declared this on my form with a covering letter.

Will this stop my application for PR considering how long ago this happened?


Have you applied for criminal rehab? Have a read of this for more info...............http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...ns/rehabil.asp

As it's been more than 5 years then you can apply, but you're not automatically deemed rehabilitated until 10 years have passed, so that won't be until next year.

So not sure if you'll be ok as you will probably be deemed rehabilitated anyway by the time you get PR? But have a read of the section above and hopefully you should find your answer.

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Old Aug 18th 2009, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by ESarge
Your lawyer would need to show that the value of what you damaged was under CAD5000 and therefore the Canadian equivalent offence of which you were convicted of does not have a maximum sentence of 10 years in Canada. Therefore you would *not* be inadmissable under section 36(1)(b).

Get thee to a lawyer!
I'm thoroughly confused now - does it matter if it didn't have a max sentence of 10 years? Thought it was any conviction at all, and the only reason they say 'up to 10 years' is because there are two different classes, one for offences with sentences up to 10 years, and the other for sentences of more than 10 years? Still thought that either way you need criminal rehab and cannot apply until at least 5 years have passed.

This from CIC section on criminal rehab - "Conviction of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than ten years" "When eligible to apply - Five years after completion of the sentence imposed".

So presumably the above applies to the OP? Doesn't matter if it was one day or 9 years does it, it's still 'less than 10 years'?

Need PMM, Jim or Paul Wildy............help!!

Last edited by christmasoompa; Aug 18th 2009 at 5:56 pm.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:00 pm
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Question Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Question for OP

You said your case should have been heard in October 2005 but the Judge went on holiday, that confuses me a little as I would have thought they would have assigned it to another Judge. They obviously didnt do that, but why did it take until March 2007 to get heard - 17 months later ?
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

I replied to private email - get cracking and go to a lawyer experienced in Canadian Immigration law
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:28 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
I'm thoroughly confused now - does it matter if it didn't have a max sentence of 10 years? Thought it was any conviction at all, and the only reason they say 'up to 10 years' is because there are two different classes, one for offences with sentences up to 10 years, and the other for sentences of more than 10 years? Still thought that either way you need criminal rehab and cannot apply until at least 5 years have passed.

This from CIC section on criminal rehab - "Conviction of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than ten years" "When eligible to apply - Five years after completion of the sentence imposed".

So presumably the above applies to the OP? Doesn't matter if it was one day or 9 years does it, it's still 'less than 10 years'?

Need PMM, Jim or Paul Wildy............help!!
I think you're right CO, the OP still has to wait 5 years after completion of sentence to apply for rehabilitation. The only difference I can see is that for +10 years, you are not automatically deemed rehabilitated after a period of time.

Maybe you can appeal on the grounds that CIC used the wrong section of the Criminal Code in their interpretation. How successful that would be I have no idea.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:33 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by ESarge
To the OP: andrewrb143 has found your grounds for appeal.

Your lawyer would need to show that the value of what you damaged was under CAD5000 and therefore the Canadian equivalent offence of which you were convicted of does not have a maximum sentence of 10 years in Canada. Therefore you would *not* be inadmissable under section 36(1)(b).

Get thee to a lawyer!
Originally Posted by christmasoompa
I'm thoroughly confused now - does it matter if it didn't have a max sentence of 10 years? Thought it was any conviction at all, and the only reason they say 'up to 10 years' is because there are two different classes, one for offences with sentences up to 10 years, and the other for sentences of more than 10 years? Still thought that either way you need criminal rehab and cannot apply until at least 5 years have passed.

This from CIC section on criminal rehab - "Conviction of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than ten years" "When eligible to apply - Five years after completion of the sentence imposed".

So presumably the above applies to the OP? Doesn't matter if it was one day or 9 years does it, it's still 'less than 10 years'?

Need PMM, Jim or Paul Wildy............help!!

36. (1) A permanent resident or a foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of serious criminality for

(a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years, or of an offence under an Act of Parliament for which a term of imprisonment of more than six months has been imposed;

(b) having been convicted of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years; or

(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:50 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
No, you can't enter as a tourist - until you have obtained criminal rehab. You are not banned 'for life' (that's why we were all so confused and thinking there must be more info you hadn't disclosed as it didn't make sense before!), you are just banned until you have been through the criminal rehab process. But you cannot apply for it until at least 5 years have passed from the end of your sentence.

Your comments about them having not read the info regarding the incident are irrelevant - no matter how minor the crime, anybody with any criminal conviction is inadmissible to Canada. Doesn't matter if you were done for the most minor crime imaginable, it would still mean you'd be ineligible to enter Canada. So assume they did read them, but it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.

Read the section about criminal rehab on the CIC website and you will understand it a bit better. Were you not aware that you were inadmissible before applying?

And I understand the spousal sponsorship thing now, thanks. Your problem now of course is that she will not be able to return to Canada if she wants to sponsor you - if she goes back until you are eligible to apply for criminal rehab (which can take up to a year btw, so just factor that in) then you will no longer be common-law partners. Is she ok to stay in the UK until 2012/13?

This has got me concerned now. As I stated earlier, I was convicted of aggravated trespass in 1994. I submitted a plea of mitigation to the magistrates and in the end I only had to pay costs. But the conviction stayed on my record and was only deleted after I made an application to the Criminal Records Bureau. My enhanced CRB is now clean... but does anyone think this past conviction will affect my application, particularly in the light of what Christmasoompa has said above?
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by MartianTom
This has got me concerned now. As I stated earlier, I was convicted of aggravated trespass in 1994. I submitted a plea of mitigation to the magistrates and in the end I only had to pay costs. But the conviction stayed on my record and was only deleted after I made an application to the Criminal Records Bureau. My enhanced CRB is now clean... but does anyone think this past conviction will affect my application, particularly in the light of what Christmasoompa has said above?
Since 15 years has past you are deemed rehabilitated.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 7:17 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by andrewrb143
Since 15 years has past you are deemed rehabilitated.
Phew! Thanks!
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 7:27 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

ChristmasOompa: You asked a very good question.
There *are* two divisions of criminal inadmissability. One is for "serious criminality" (max sentence of 10 years+) and the other is for "serious criminality".

Serious criminality makes a permanent resident *and* a foreign national inadmissable while criminality merely makes a foreign national inadmissable.

So, if you have PR and then commit an offence with a max sentence in Canada of at least 10 years then you can no longer get back into the country. If what you do is less than that then you can.

Both serious criminality and criminality appear to apply to PR applications because the applicant isn't a permanent resident at the time of the application - they're merely a foreign national.

So I think this just removes the grounds for appeal I thought we had before. However, I do think the OP should approach a lawyer and start the process of correcting CIC's record. It may take quite some time to do this and it would be good to have this done by 2012 when the OP can apply for rehabilitation. Alternatively, the OP could wait until 2012 and make an application for rehabilitation that includes an appeal of the serious criminality finding.

I just checked IRPA for info on appeals. It includes the following
No appeal for inadmissibility

64. (1) No appeal may be made to the Immigration Appeal Division by a foreign national or their sponsor or by a permanent resident if the foreign national or permanent resident has been found to be inadmissible on grounds of security, violating human or international rights, serious criminality or organized criminality.

Serious criminality

(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), serious criminality must be with respect to a crime that was punished in Canada by a term of imprisonment of at least two years.
.

Which is actually kind of odd. Seems to imply that if you're found inadmissible for serious criminality then you can't even appeal that finding.

To the OP: You really need a good lawyer and you should do it now.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 8:46 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by ESarge
Seems to imply that if you're found inadmissible for serious criminality then you can't even appeal that finding.
That bit's actually fairly straightforward. 64(2) limits 64(1). So if you're sentenced in Canada, to two years or more in prison for a serious crime, you don't have a right of appeal. I suppose the reasoning is that one Canadian court already decided you're a bad 'un, so why go to another for a second opinion. In other cases, there is a right of appeal.
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Old Aug 18th 2009, 9:58 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

cornmatthew: So we're clear to anybody who might need it: The difference is being sentenced *in* Canada. If CIC's decided that some other court thinks you're a bad 'un then you can appeal CIC's decision.

MartianTom: Strictly speaking, you're only deemed rehabilitated if the Canadian equivalent of the original offence had a maximum sentence of less than 10 years in prison. It appears that Trespass doesn't appear in the Canada Criminal Code and that it's a offence only in provincial law. You should probably double check for your own peace of mind.
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Old Aug 19th 2009, 10:06 am
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by Miss Clinque
Question for OP

You said your case should have been heard in October 2005 but the Judge went on holiday, that confuses me a little as I would have thought they would have assigned it to another Judge. They obviously didnt do that, but why did it take until March 2007 to get heard - 17 months later ?
YUp, you'd have thought that wouldnt you, but thats why it was delayed the first time - we were due to satrt on a Thursday but the Judge said he expected it to last 3days and therefore he couldnt hear it, as 1 judge has to sit thru the entire case. The reasons the other delays took place were:
1. Witnessess unavailable on certain dates
2. Pressure of other cases - ie they couldnt allocate a "slot" in which to hear the case.
We came back in September 2006 and then finally heard the case in March 2007 by which time everyone was so bored i offered to pay the "victim" compenation as we were - u guessed it - heading for ANOTHER delay.

Thats the English Court system for you. God Bless the HMCS, their worth every penny.
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Old Aug 19th 2009, 1:00 pm
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Default Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC

Originally Posted by goolash
YUp, you'd have thought that wouldnt you, but thats why it was delayed the first time - we were due to satrt on a Thursday but the Judge said he expected it to last 3days and therefore he couldnt hear it, as 1 judge has to sit thru the entire case. The reasons the other delays took place were:
1. Witnessess unavailable on certain dates
2. Pressure of other cases - ie they couldnt allocate a "slot" in which to hear the case.
We came back in September 2006 and then finally heard the case in March 2007 by which time everyone was so bored i offered to pay the "victim" compenation as we were - u guessed it - heading for ANOTHER delay.

Thats the English Court system for you. God Bless the HMCS, their worth every penny.
Thats amazing!! its unfair that you have that hanging over you for such a long time.
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