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Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Old Aug 2nd 2004, 9:39 am
  #1  
Uscanada
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Default Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Hello
i got the passport request.
i have one question if i have a job offer in usa then can i go to
canada and comeback on TN visa or first i have to take h1b visa and
then come back on h1b visa from canada.

and is there any specific timeperiod within which i can comeback to
usa like 10 days or a month on h1b or TN visa??

can anyone clarify on this??

thanks
uscanada
 
Old Aug 2nd 2004, 9:52 am
  #2  
Anthony
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

TN Visa is only for Canadian Citizen.

"uscanada" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
    > Hello
    > i got the passport request.
    > i have one question if i have a job offer in usa then can i go to
    > canada and comeback on TN visa or first i have to take h1b visa and
    > then come back on h1b visa from canada.
    > and is there any specific timeperiod within which i can comeback to
    > usa like 10 days or a month on h1b or TN visa??
    > can anyone clarify on this??
    > thanks
    > uscanada
 
Old Aug 3rd 2004, 1:55 am
  #3  
Stuart Brook
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

uscanada wrote:
    > Hello
    > i got the passport request.
    > i have one question if i have a job offer in usa then can i go to
    > canada and comeback on TN visa or first i have to take h1b visa and
    > then come back on h1b visa from canada.
    >
    > and is there any specific timeperiod within which i can comeback to
    > usa like 10 days or a month on h1b or TN visa??
    >
    > can anyone clarify on this??
    >
    > thanks
    > uscanada

Another example of Canada's lax immigration law permitting it to be used
as a door mat for people really wanting to go to the US.

You cannot get a TN ... you must be a Canadian citizen, not a PR. So,
you need an H1B to get to the US.
 
Old Aug 3rd 2004, 12:49 pm
  #4  
Ocean_surfer2000
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]. cable.rogers.com>...
    > uscanada wrote:
    > > Hello
    > > i got the passport request.
    > > i have one question if i have a job offer in usa then can i go to
    > > canada and comeback on TN visa or first i have to take h1b visa and
    > > then come back on h1b visa from canada.
    > >
    > > and is there any specific timeperiod within which i can comeback to
    > > usa like 10 days or a month on h1b or TN visa??
    > >
    > > can anyone clarify on this??
    > >
    > > thanks
    > > uscanada
    >
    > Another example of Canada's lax immigration law permitting it to be used
    > as a door mat for people really wanting to go to the US.
    >
    > You cannot get a TN ... you must be a Canadian citizen, not a PR. So,
    > you need an H1B to get to the US.

It shows that Canada has hard time keeping qualified people in the country.
Can you blame people for looking for better opportunities?
 
Old Aug 4th 2004, 9:17 am
  #5  
Stuart Brook
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

ocean_surfer2000 wrote:

    >>Another example of Canada's lax immigration law permitting it to be used
    >>as a door mat for people really wanting to go to the US.
    >>You cannot get a TN ... you must be a Canadian citizen, not a PR. So,
    >>you need an H1B to get to the US.
    >
    >
    > It shows that Canada has hard time keeping qualified people in the country.
    > Can you blame people for looking for better opportunities?

This person hasn't even GOT to Canada yet and he's going to the US.
This is all too common. They said this would improve under the new
legislation. So far it looks far worse.

This is a rather different issue from the one ot which you refer ... If
enough PRs arrived on the doorstep and were waved "Unemployed and
seemingly Unemployable" under their MPs nose after getting here, then
the Gov't would take a better look at immigration policy.
 
Old Aug 7th 2004, 1:57 pm
  #6  
Ocean_surfer2000
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] .cable.rogers.com>...
    > ocean_surfer2000 wrote:
    >
    > >>Another example of Canada's lax immigration law permitting it to be used
    > >>as a door mat for people really wanting to go to the US.
    > >>
    > >>You cannot get a TN ... you must be a Canadian citizen, not a PR. So,
    > >>you need an H1B to get to the US.
    > >
    > >
    > > It shows that Canada has hard time keeping qualified people in the country.
    > > Can you blame people for looking for better opportunities?
    >
    > This person hasn't even GOT to Canada yet and he's going to the US.
    > This is all too common. They said this would improve under the new
    > legislation. So far it looks far worse.
    >
    > This is a rather different issue from the one ot which you refer ... If
    > enough PRs arrived on the doorstep and were waved "Unemployed and
    > seemingly Unemployable" under their MPs nose after getting here, then
    > the Gov't would take a better look at immigration policy.


I agree with you. Canada immigration is a joke.
 
Old Aug 8th 2004, 3:22 am
  #7  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Originally Posted by Stuart Brook

This person hasn't even GOT to Canada yet and he's going to the US.
This is all too common. They said this would improve under the new
legislation. So far it looks far worse.
How can any set of immigration rules screen out people who would really rather be in the US? And should they even try to? The reality is that many migrants to Canada - in common with migrants to Australia, New Zealand, or the UK - would in fact rather go to the US if they had the option.

If he's applied for Canadian PR thinking it would be of some use to him in the US, then he's been sorely mistaken and wasted time and money (his own and CIC's). And he's hogged an immigration visa that could have been used by someone else who *really* wanted to move to Canada.

As you've pointed out he can't get a TN and if he goes to work in the US his Canadian PR won't last that long. However, any immigration system has got to work on the presumption that someone who invests the time and energy to make an application for PR is reasonably serious about taking up the opportunity if granted.

Perhaps a higher application fee (like Australia's - when you include mandatory skill assessment it's about CAD2,000, although this covers a whole family) might weed out less serious applicants. And provide more resources to process applications - long processing times lead to people not taking up PR as their life circumstances are more likely to change over a period of years as opposed to a number of months.


This is a rather different issue from the one ot which you refer ... If
enough PRs arrived on the doorstep and were waved "Unemployed and
seemingly Unemployable" under their MPs nose after getting here, then
the Gov't would take a better look at immigration policy.
Although this guy seems to be employable in the US?

Jeremy
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Old Aug 8th 2004, 6:29 am
  #8  
Stuart Brook
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

JAJ wrote:

    > How can any set of immigration rules screen out people who would really rather be in the US? And should they even try to? The reality is that many migrants to Canada - in common with migrants to Australia, New Zealand, or the UK - would in fact rather go to the US if they had the option.
    >
    > If he's applied for Canadian PR thinking it would be of some use to him in the US, then he's been sorely mistaken and wasted time and money (his own and CIC's). And he's hogged an immigration visa that could have been used by someone else who *really* wanted to move to Canada.
    >
    > As you've pointed out he can't get a TN and if he goes to work in the US his Canadian PR won't last that long. However, any immigration system has got to work on the presumption that someone who invests the time and energy to make an application for PR is reasonably serious about taking up the opportunity if granted.
    >
    > Perhaps a higher application fee (like Australia's - when you include mandatory skill assessment it's about CAD2,000, although this covers a whole family) might weed out less serious applicants. And provide more resources to process applications - long processing times lead to people not taking up PR as their life circumstances are more likely to change over a period of years as opposed to a number of months.

There are three things that IMNSHO should be done ...

1) Extend the validity of the approval to 12 months, even if it means a
follow up medical screening to present at the PoE to confirm that the
medical condition has not changed. This would ensure that the people
who want to come can get their affairs tidied up in a reasonable
timescale, instead of sometimes just a few months that they get now.
This means that when they land in Canada, they are truly ready to land
and should not need to do a flagpole turn.

2) Landing must revert to the establishment of a residence in Canada
within a few months of the expiry of the landing visa. This stops
people doing a flagpole turn for anything but a short period outside Canada.

3) Time permitted outside Canada should be reduced to 1 year in a 4
year period without a pre-arranged return permit. Permits should be
granted for personal emergencies and employment travel when sent by a
Canadian employer. Travel of less than 2 weeks would be excluded once
per annum provided it could be documented.

Similar tightening should be made for Citizenship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Although this guy seems to be employable in the US?
    >
    > Jeremy
    >

One might wonder given his communications skills.
 
Old Aug 8th 2004, 9:00 am
  #9  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

It is unusual to immigrate to Canada and then quickly move to the U.S. to work thru a H1B visa? A H1B visa can be obtained from any country not just Canada ... so what is the point of that extra long step of getting to Canada first??? I don't get it???
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Old Aug 8th 2004, 9:19 am
  #10  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Originally Posted by Stuart Brook

3) Time permitted outside Canada should be reduced to 1 year in a 4
year period without a pre-arranged return permit. Permits should be
granted for personal emergencies and employment travel when sent by a
Canadian employer. Travel of less than 2 weeks would be excluded once
per annum provided it could be documented.
You are contradicting yourself slightly when you talk about excluding travel <2 weeks per year: if someone is allowed 1 year's absence in every 4 year period, they won't even come close to this even if they take all their vacations outside Canada.

You seem to think the existing 2/5 year period is excessively lax. I don't. Those working in the US on H1Bs will end up staying away longer and will likely lose their PR anyway.

I think part of the reason CIC adopted the 2/5 benchmark was that it effectively avoids the need for a lot of the 'permits' that you suggest to cover legitimate cases where - for example - people are employed by Canadian corporations and need to travel outside Canada a lot on business.

Similar tightening should be made for Citizenship.
Citizenship applicants *already* need to meet a 3 years in 4 residence criteria. Those that don't can always argue their case before a citizenship judge, but realistically there seems little chance of approval in these cases unless the person is being constantly sent overseas by their Canadian employer.

Those who are *really* determined to use Canada as a so-called 'back-up plan' for working in the US can come to Canada, become Canadian citizens after a few years, and then try their luck in the States. There is no easy way to prevent this that would not excessively encroach on the rights of those who legimately want to settle in Canada, or on the concept of equality of citizenship among Canadians.

One has to make the assumption that if someone gives 4 years of their life to Canada (citizenship residence period plus processing time) they will have enough economic and social ties to persuade them to stay, and if they choose to try out the States, they've as much right to do that as any other Canadian.



Jeremy
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Old Aug 8th 2004, 2:39 pm
  #11  
Stuart Brook
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

JAJ wrote:

    >
    > You are contradicting yourself slightly when you talk about excluding travel <2 weeks per year: if someone is allowed 1 year's absence in every 4 year period, they won't even come close to this even if they take all their vacations outside Canada.

No ... Travel less than 2 weeks would be excluded the need for a permit.
This would be fine for vacation and employment related trips outside
Canada without the need for a permit.

    > You seem to think the existing 2/5 year period is excessively lax. I don't. Those working in the US on H1Bs will end up staying away longer and will likely lose their PR anyway.

It is excessively lax and fits very well with the US times to get green
cards etc.


    > I think part of the reason CIC adopted the 2/5 benchmark was that it effectively avoids the need for a lot of the 'permits' that you suggest to cover legitimate cases where - for example - people are employed by Canadian corporations and need to travel outside Canada a lot on business.

As I said, a good 'excluded need for a permit' type travel would work
just fine, and the only requirements to prove would not need to be
excessive.

    > Citizenship applicants *already* need to meet a 3 years in 4 residence criteria. Those that don't can always argue their case before a citizenship judge, but realistically there seems little chance of approval in these cases unless the person is being constantly sent overseas by their Canadian employer.

That's the theory, although a lot of citizenship applicants are claiming
their primary place of residence is in Canada even though their bodies
were outside Canada, and getting away with it. This needs to be
tightened up.

    > Those who are *really* determined to use Canada as a so-called 'back-up plan'
for working in the US can come to Canada, become Canadian citizens after
a few
years, and then try their luck in the States. There is no easy way to
prevent this that would not excessively encroach on the rights of those
who legimately want to settle in Canada, or on the concept of equality of
citizenship among Canadians.

I have no objection to this. They've made an attempt to settle in
Canada, although in some ways, I'd prefer a longer time to citizenship,
like to be able to earn citizenship after the PR minimum obligation has
been met.

    > One has to make the assumption that if someone gives 4 years of their
life to Canada (citizenship residence period plus processing time) they
will have enough economic and social ties to persuade them to stay, and
if they choose to try out the States, they've as much right to do that
as any other Canadian.

I have no objection to people going to the US ... or anywhere. It's
just that if they choose to do that before citizenship, then they should
be subject to intense scrutiny as to their PR status.
 
Old Aug 8th 2004, 2:41 pm
  #12  
Stuart Brook
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

tony_ZZZ wrote:

    >
    > It is unusual to immigrate to Canada and then quickly move to the U.S. to
work thru a H1B visa? A H1B visa can be obtained from any country not just
Canada ... so what is the point of that extra long step of getting to Canada
first??? I don't get it???
    >

The goal is ultimately a US green card ... the H1B being the preliminary
step to get them a job and acclimated. But they want a fall back that
they can go to without having to go all the way back to their country of
origin in case the H1B ends early or the GC fails.
 
Old Aug 9th 2004, 10:34 am
  #13  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

I have just sponsored my American wife to move to Canada. She recently received her visa. We will depart for Canada shortly.

If I ever decide to come back to the U.S. to work and she accompanies me for longer than 2 years, I don't think the 2/5 year rule would apply here. I hope not!
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Old Aug 9th 2004, 1:46 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Everybody knows what a USD can offer to the world. Everybody wants to come here...canadians included. So why blame somebody who is not a Canadian. After all nobody can stop knowledge, skill and experience.

I am happy that the *world is moving towards a *free world without borders.
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Old Aug 9th 2004, 2:12 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: Regarding TN Visa(Mr andrew Miller)

Originally Posted by Stuart Brook

    > Citizenship applicants *already* need to meet a 3 years in 4 residence criteria. Those that don't can always argue their case before a citizenship judge, but realistically there seems little chance of approval in these cases unless the person is being constantly sent overseas by their Canadian employer.

That's the theory, although a lot of citizenship applicants are claiming
their primary place of residence is in Canada even though their bodies
were outside Canada, and getting away with it. This needs to be
tightened up.
I think you need to provide some hard evidence to back up this claim. My impression is that CIC do normally expect to see 1095 days in 4 years, unless there's a pretty good explanation that will pass muster before a citizenship judge.

Unless of course you mean that people are claiming Canadian citizenship fraudulently, which is a different issue.


I have no objection to this. They've made an attempt to settle in
Canada, although in some ways, I'd prefer a longer time to citizenship,
like to be able to earn citizenship after the PR minimum obligation has
been met.
Considering that Canada can't really stop people applying for PR even if Canada's their 'fall back' option vs the US, I am not sure if it's a good idea to effectively force people to become Canadian citizens before trying out options in the US

Determined people will do just that.

To me, it would seem better for US wannabes to lose their Canadian PR after a few years as opposed to getting Canadian passports and *then* going to the US.

If you make the PR criteria too strict, it forces people down the citizenship option beforehand. Even raising the residence period for citizenship won't stop the determined ones. And would make the integration process for legitimate PRs a lot harder.

Whereas with a 2/5 residence criteria without much flexibility, then if they (US wannabes) get their US Green Card they won't be seen in Canada again (unless they re-migrate). And as the three year period is marginal for getting a GC, many of those whose US plans don't work out will find the Canada door closed in the end.

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