Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Nov 21st 2019, 5:42 am
#1
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Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Absolutely devastated but we received notification our application has been refused last night.
We were invited to apply under October’s FST draw as my husband is a plumber. We have spent the last 12-18 months challenging his qualifications with the Ontario College of Trades and passing his Red Seal.
When we applied for our initial EE profile we stated he had completed 4 years in a trades college as we had successfully challenged his qualifications and he had. My sister at the time contacted IRCC to check we had indeed put down the correct information but the call assistant didn’t know the answer to our query either! I also emailed ICAS and was advised they didn’t deal with NVQ’s and to contact a trades college for challenging which we had already done by this point. We naively assumed that as we had successfully challenged we were ok. Without completing a college course he obviously wouldn’t have had the qualifications in the first place.
Any advice on what to do next? We’re happy for the NVQ’s to be assessed but who does it? Does anyone know what a level 3 NVQ is the equivalent on the EE application? I’m just trying to figure out whether it’s worth re-applying and whether we’d have enough points for another possible ITA.
Thank you in advance.
We were invited to apply under October’s FST draw as my husband is a plumber. We have spent the last 12-18 months challenging his qualifications with the Ontario College of Trades and passing his Red Seal.
When we applied for our initial EE profile we stated he had completed 4 years in a trades college as we had successfully challenged his qualifications and he had. My sister at the time contacted IRCC to check we had indeed put down the correct information but the call assistant didn’t know the answer to our query either! I also emailed ICAS and was advised they didn’t deal with NVQ’s and to contact a trades college for challenging which we had already done by this point. We naively assumed that as we had successfully challenged we were ok. Without completing a college course he obviously wouldn’t have had the qualifications in the first place.
Any advice on what to do next? We’re happy for the NVQ’s to be assessed but who does it? Does anyone know what a level 3 NVQ is the equivalent on the EE application? I’m just trying to figure out whether it’s worth re-applying and whether we’d have enough points for another possible ITA.
Thank you in advance.
Nov 21st 2019, 6:04 am
#2
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Hello, how disappointing for you.
There is no point in calling the 'misinformation' line - aka as the 'helpline' - as they are not immigration officers - it's a call centre and they would not be allowed to give a 3rd party any information unless you had signed documentation giving consent - nor can they give advice.
Did you state that your husband had served an apprenticeship and attended trade school for 4 years, full time and you claimed the CRS points for that - when he didn't actually do so? Challenging the Provincial Certificiate of Qualification is separate and totally different to the 'education points' on the CRS for Express Entry. The Educational Credential Assessment (ECA) (education points) isn't a requirement for EE Trades but can give additional points. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...html#education
Could you jot down what CRS points you claimed on your profile.. and how many you would have (using the CRS calculator) without those 4 years?
There is no point in calling the 'misinformation' line - aka as the 'helpline' - as they are not immigration officers - it's a call centre and they would not be allowed to give a 3rd party any information unless you had signed documentation giving consent - nor can they give advice.
Did you state that your husband had served an apprenticeship and attended trade school for 4 years, full time and you claimed the CRS points for that - when he didn't actually do so? Challenging the Provincial Certificiate of Qualification is separate and totally different to the 'education points' on the CRS for Express Entry. The Educational Credential Assessment (ECA) (education points) isn't a requirement for EE Trades but can give additional points. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...html#education
Could you jot down what CRS points you claimed on your profile.. and how many you would have (using the CRS calculator) without those 4 years?
Last edited by Siouxie; Nov 21st 2019 at 6:06 am.
Nov 21st 2019, 6:23 am
#3
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Hello, how disappointing for you.
There is no point in calling the 'misinformation' line - aka as the 'helpline' - as they are not immigration officers - it's a call centre and they would not be allowed to give a 3rd party any information unless you had signed documentation giving consent - nor can they give advice.
Did you state that your husband had served an apprenticeship and attended trade school for 4 years, full time and you claimed the CRS points for that - when he didn't actually do so? Challenging the Provincial Certificiate of Qualification is separate and totally different to the 'education points' on the CRS for Express Entry. The Educational Credential Assessment (ECA) (education points) isn't a requirement for EE Trades but can give additional points. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...html#education
Could you jot down what CRS points you claimed on your profile.. and how many you would have (using the CRS calculator) without those 4 years?
There is no point in calling the 'misinformation' line - aka as the 'helpline' - as they are not immigration officers - it's a call centre and they would not be allowed to give a 3rd party any information unless you had signed documentation giving consent - nor can they give advice.
Did you state that your husband had served an apprenticeship and attended trade school for 4 years, full time and you claimed the CRS points for that - when he didn't actually do so? Challenging the Provincial Certificiate of Qualification is separate and totally different to the 'education points' on the CRS for Express Entry. The Educational Credential Assessment (ECA) (education points) isn't a requirement for EE Trades but can give additional points. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...html#education
Could you jot down what CRS points you claimed on your profile.. and how many you would have (using the CRS calculator) without those 4 years?
He attended college for 4 years so that’s what I put down along with the dates. I’d previously emailed ICAS and they replied to say that they didn’t do trade qualifications and nor do WES. I naively assumed that with his CoE that was it.
I’m still very confused how we can get more points for education. Surely 4 years in trades school cant be worthless?!
This is a breakdown of our points. They’ve deducted the full 112 so we’re now we’ll below the points threshold 😞
Nov 21st 2019, 7:07 am
#4
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
I'm so sorry to hear your app has been refused. Can you confirm though, does he have the required Certificate of Qualification in his trades and did you definitely include that?
Nov 21st 2019, 9:07 am
#5
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Yes he does. I included the confirmation from the college, certificate of red seal along with all copies of all his certificates including his NVQ’s.
Nov 21st 2019, 9:45 am
#6
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Absolutely devastated but we received notification our application has been refused last night.
We were invited to apply under October’s FST draw as my husband is a plumber. We have spent the last 12-18 months challenging his qualifications with the Ontario College of Trades and passing his Red Seal.
When we applied for our initial EE profile we stated he had completed 4 years in a trades college as we had successfully challenged his qualifications and he had. My sister at the time contacted IRCC to check we had indeed put down the correct information but the call assistant didn’t know the answer to our query either! I also emailed ICAS and was advised they didn’t deal with NVQ’s and to contact a trades college for challenging which we had already done by this point. We naively assumed that as we had successfully challenged we were ok. Without completing a college course he obviously wouldn’t have had the qualifications in the first place.
Any advice on what to do next? We’re happy for the NVQ’s to be assessed but who does it? Does anyone know what a level 3 NVQ is the equivalent on the EE application? I’m just trying to figure out whether it’s worth re-applying and whether we’d have enough points for another possible ITA.
Thank you in advance.
We were invited to apply under October’s FST draw as my husband is a plumber. We have spent the last 12-18 months challenging his qualifications with the Ontario College of Trades and passing his Red Seal.
When we applied for our initial EE profile we stated he had completed 4 years in a trades college as we had successfully challenged his qualifications and he had. My sister at the time contacted IRCC to check we had indeed put down the correct information but the call assistant didn’t know the answer to our query either! I also emailed ICAS and was advised they didn’t deal with NVQ’s and to contact a trades college for challenging which we had already done by this point. We naively assumed that as we had successfully challenged we were ok. Without completing a college course he obviously wouldn’t have had the qualifications in the first place.
Any advice on what to do next? We’re happy for the NVQ’s to be assessed but who does it? Does anyone know what a level 3 NVQ is the equivalent on the EE application? I’m just trying to figure out whether it’s worth re-applying and whether we’d have enough points for another possible ITA.
Thank you in advance.
You've got your C of Q.
But proof of education isn't valid as it isn't in Canada and no one (officially) who assesses education equivalences looks at NVQ's as a result you lose the points for 3+ years at a college/University/trade school?
Although unsure how you got that far as I had to have an ECA to even grant the points on my profile.
All you can do is submit all the quals he has (school, college, trade, whatever to WES/all the other providers) and see what comes back. WES didn't touch my nvq 3/4 but gave me a 1yr college ECA for some of my related qualifications.
Nov 21st 2019, 11:54 am
#7
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
The way I'm reading this is a similar situation to what I was in. Albeit I didn't have my ITA at that point.
You've got your C of Q.
But proof of education isn't valid as it isn't in Canada and no one (officially) who assesses education equivalences looks at NVQ's as a result you lose the points for 3+ years at a college/University/trade school?
Although unsure how you got that far as I had to have an ECA to even grant the points on my profile.
All you can do is submit all the quals he has (school, college, trade, whatever to WES/all the other providers) and see what comes back. WES didn't touch my nvq 3/4 but gave me a 1yr college ECA for some of my related qualifications.
You've got your C of Q.
But proof of education isn't valid as it isn't in Canada and no one (officially) who assesses education equivalences looks at NVQ's as a result you lose the points for 3+ years at a college/University/trade school?
Although unsure how you got that far as I had to have an ECA to even grant the points on my profile.
All you can do is submit all the quals he has (school, college, trade, whatever to WES/all the other providers) and see what comes back. WES didn't touch my nvq 3/4 but gave me a 1yr college ECA for some of my related qualifications.
I’d answered to say that he had attended trades college and that he had Canadian recognition (College of Trades).
I don’t think with one years college education we’d have enough points still.
Nov 21st 2019, 4:32 pm
#8
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
If I’m honest I’m ready to give up 😞 Our lives have been on hold for the last 2 years already. It’s been hurdle after hurdle.
I’d answered to say that he had attended trades college and that he had Canadian recognition (College of Trades).
I don’t think with one years college education we’d have enough points still.
1 of my first posts on here was basically me being told I might not have the education I thought I had.which they were right - yet a friend /ex colleague went through the same program I did but left prior to the end of year 4, and his level 3= 3 years of college education.
Nov 21st 2019, 4:55 pm
#9
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
Education = NVQ's assessed for points for education for Express Entry
C o Q = Experience assessed for Certificate of Qualification for working
Sadly, this confusion has caused the issue that has now arisen and I can totally understand the frustration you must be feeling.
If you have claimed points for Education then Express Entry want the Confirmation from WES or similar that his NVQ's are the equivalent to (for instance.. Post Secondary Education, 2 year diploma) and worth x amount of points on the CRS. This is not a requirement for FSW Trades though... so you may not even need it, unless your points are really low.
The Certificate of Qualfiication ALSO gives you points - but for being Provincially certified to work in that trade.
What is your points breakdown, are you sure that you don't have enough points to get another ITA?
Don't give up
Last edited by Siouxie; Nov 21st 2019 at 6:32 pm.
Nov 21st 2019, 5:27 pm
#10
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
That's your call, and obviously something you'd have to check out yourselves. But don't necessarily think an nvq level 3= 1 year and nvq level 4 =2 years.
1 of my first posts on here was basically me being told I might not have the education I thought I had.which they were right - yet a friend /ex colleague went through the same program I did but left prior to the end of year 4, and his level 3= 3 years of college education.
1 of my first posts on here was basically me being told I might not have the education I thought I had.which they were right - yet a friend /ex colleague went through the same program I did but left prior to the end of year 4, and his level 3= 3 years of college education.
Nov 21st 2019, 5:32 pm
#11
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
I think you have confused the 'experience and qualifications for getting a C o Q - with points for Education. He would need his NVQ's assessed by WES or one of the other companies in order to claim the points for Education.
Education = NVQ's assessed for points for education for Express Entry
C o Q = Experience assessed for Certificate of Qualification for working
Sadly, this confusion has caused the issue that has now arisen and I can totally understand the frustration you must be feeling.
If you have claimed points for Education then Express Entry want the Confirmation from WES or similar that his NVQ's are the equivalent to (for instance.. Post Secondary Education, 2 year diploma) and worth x amount of points on the CRS. This is not a requirement for FSW Trades though... so you may not even need it, unless your points are really low.
The Certificate of Qualfiication ALSO gives you points - but for being Provincially certified to work in that trade.
What is your points breakdown, are you sure that you don't have enough points to get another ITA?
Don't give up
Education = NVQ's assessed for points for education for Express Entry
C o Q = Experience assessed for Certificate of Qualification for working
Sadly, this confusion has caused the issue that has now arisen and I can totally understand the frustration you must be feeling.
If you have claimed points for Education then Express Entry want the Confirmation from WES or similar that his NVQ's are the equivalent to (for instance.. Post Secondary Education, 2 year diploma) and worth x amount of points on the CRS. This is not a requirement for FSW Trades though... so you may not even need it, unless your points are really low.
The Certificate of Qualfiication ALSO gives you points - but for being Provincially certified to work in that trade.
What is your points breakdown, are you sure that you don't have enough points to get another ITA?
Don't give up
We definitely don’t have enough points without it. If ICAS/WES a agree to 1-2 years in college and some improved IELTS scores we should be ok. Just not sure I’m willing to go through the whole process all over again....
Nov 21st 2019, 6:43 pm
#12
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
I can’t believe we’ve done this. Such a waste of time and money.
We definitely don’t have enough points without it. If ICAS/WES a agree to 1-2 years in college and some improved IELTS scores we should be ok. Just not sure I’m willing to go through the whole process all over again....
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...-previous.html
CRS score of lowest-ranked candidate invited: 357
Only you can decide whether to continue or not, but if you have already spent time and money to get this far, perhaps it's worth hanging on.
Good luck..
Nov 21st 2019, 7:16 pm
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
I got a unfair denial when I first applied for PR, and I sent the visa office a fax and email explaining they made a mistake, and they changed their decision shortly after. Not sure if that will work in this case though.
Nov 21st 2019, 9:31 pm
#14
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
I used WES, mainly because i wanted a quick turnaround (so much for that, ended up with a 13 week wait) - and was banking on 32 points from them with the view that other assessment people may be better but there was no chance of getting them back before the next FST draw, so i'd go with WES and when it came back I'd make a decision on whether to pursue elsewhere. (as well as seeing what had gone on FST draw wise).
Nov 23rd 2019, 6:28 am
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Re: Refusal after AoR - FST applicant.
What did they refuse you for if you don’t mind me asking?